2L Rant

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hatingschool
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2L Rant

Postby hatingschool » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:07 am

To put it succinctly I hate law school and do not know if I can finish let alone do 2-3 years at a firm, but thanks to my debt, I feel trapped. I am a K-JD Poly Sci/History major I did not know what I wanted to do in life so I took the LSAT and went to law school (Yes I know massive mistake). I have so far done well enough to get on Law Review and get a SA.

First, I hate law review. A 1/4 of the people are just honest to god geniuses and when we talk in the office or something, they make me feel like an idiot. A 1/4 of the people are complete idiots and it pisses me off they got on law review. Especially, when I know people who are definitely smarter than they are but for some reason did not make the cut. Last, about half the people are just so anti-social that I cannot figure them out.

I hate all my Professors, all my classes, and law school finals. I think about how much the school charges, how much the Professors earn, how much the Professors work and how many of my classmates are going to be shit out of luck. I feel like law school finals are such bullshit. The difference between an A- or an A (which could be the difference between a job and unemployment) quite honestly comes down to luck (I know because I got lucky on a couple of my exams, ex. remembering some BS case that the professor barely mentioned in class but was like 1/5 of the exam). Law school exams are so fake and unrealistic. I do not know why they teach law school the way they do but after my summer job I can honestly say the only skill I used was my writing and research ability, going forward I doubt it will be any different (except maybe for the bar). I now believe that almost all my Professors hate teaching, they do it because they have to, really they are being paid to write asinine worthless law review articles that unlucky (if you are not on law review you would probably say lucky) people like me have to read, edit, and pull the sources for.

Maybe it is just the time of year but school is depressing as hell. Everyone who is going to get a SA got one; everyone else is realizing that unemployment is right around the corner. The thing that pisses me off is that there are people I know of that when I hear where they are working I ask myself how did they get an SA let alone one at that firm. On the other side, I hear of people who had 5 callbacks and didn't manage to get a single offer or worse people who I know are smart and would probably make better lawyers than me, but didn't get a single callback.

When thinking about everything law school is not even 3 years, thanks to the $250k in debt (probably more thank you tuition increases) it really is going to be a 6 year+ affair (yes maybe I should not be paying sticker, another mistake I made). To pay off my loans I am going to have to work in biglaw for at least 3 years. I know I do not want to work at a bigfirm. The idea of working 70-80 hrs a week doing bullshit work for big corporations scares me (maybe that is just the naïve liberal in me that says screw with the corporations). The only "light" I have is pro bono work, but that is probably going to be like 50 hours a year or something.
I feel like I would like to be a lawyer, working for like the ACLU, DOJ, solicitor general’s office, maybe as an AUSA, but I know realistically that I'm not getting a CoA clerkship, let alone the SCOTUS clerkship, needed to get those jobs ITE.

At this point I'm afraid what's going to happen is I'm going to finish school work in biglaw until my student loans are paid off and then I'll be so sick of all the bullshit I'll be like those people on ATL that write a departure memo saying they joining the circus.

At the very least I needed to rant on this because I feel like everything I expressed here would be sacrilege if I said it "in real life." The people with an SA lined would think I am insane for not joining the biglaw "cult," the people without an SA would want to lynch me for not wanting the SA they would kill for, and the people who are doing public interest would laugh and call me a sellout (which I probably am).

Am I alone in feeling like this?

Void
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Void » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:44 am

For whatever reason, fall semester of 2L is pretty typically the worst part of law school. It certainly was for me. It got better in my case- I hope it gets better for you.

If you really don't want biglaw and really do want to do some kind of public interest work, it's not impossible even with your debt. If you can combine the PAYE and PSLF programs, you'll pay a reasonable fraction of your income for 10 years and then the rest of your debt will be forgiven. If you can get on that track, it doesn't even really matter how much you owe. (Although it's not necessarily easy to find qualifying work and keep it for a decade).

My point here is that you do actually have options. You're not stuck. Feel better, man.

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:49 am

Void wrote:For whatever reason, fall semester of 2L is pretty typically the worst part of law school. It certainly was for me. It got better in my case- I hope it gets better for you.

If you really don't want biglaw and really do want to do some kind of public interest work, it's not impossible even with your debt. If you can combine the PAYE and PSLF programs, you'll pay a reasonable fraction of your income for 10 years and then the rest of your debt will be forgiven. If you can get on that track, it doesn't even really matter how much you owe. (Although it's not necessarily easy to find qualifying work and keep it for a decade).

My point here is that you do actually have options. You're not stuck. Feel better, man.


Totally feel like I wish I was a 1L again right now. Scary.

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Danger Zone
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Danger Zone » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:50 am

Law school blows.
Last edited by Danger Zone on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Nova » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:56 am

Youre not alone. I hate school too :(

Completely unsatisfied.

hatingschool
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby hatingschool » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:16 am

Danger Zone wrote:And yeah, the meritocracy is bullshit and doesn't do a very good job at separating the wheat from the chaff.


That is honestly one of the most depressing and frustrating parts of law school. I feel like there is way to much luck involved in law school finals. A close friend of mine, who I studied with, who I believe is smarter than me, got totally screwed because he fucked up one exam. First semester his grades were better than mine. Second semester he did as good as me in every class, except one. He totally bombed a 4 credit course which DESTROYED his GPA. He managed to get a couple of callbacks but no offers. I am 100% sure had he not bombed that one course he would have gotten an offer. It is so depressing because he would probably be a better lawyer than me (he actually wants to work in Biglaw, unlike me), but because he screwed up one exam he doesn't get "chosen." I kind of feel like I have survivors guilt. I feel like I do not deserve the SA I got because there are people that I know are more qualified and smarter (and more importantly want the job), they just got unlucky and fucked up at the wrong time. You could be an amazing student, wake up on the wrong side of the bed on the wrong day (day of a final) and get screwed.

With regards to working in public interest. I don't really want to work in any of the public interest jobs that I can get right out of law school. If I had the credentials to do DOJ honors I would do that in a heartbeat (would love to work in the civil rights division). However, I know that there is no chance for me to get a CoA clerkship and that is pretty much a prerequisite for DOJ honors ITE.

Void
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Void » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:41 am

hatingschool wrote:
With regards to working in public interest. I don't really want to work in any of the public interest jobs that I can get right out of law school. If I had the credentials to do DOJ honors I would do that in a heartbeat (would love to work in the civil rights division). However, I know that there is no chance for me to get a CoA clerkship and that is pretty much a prerequisite for DOJ honors ITE.


Oh so you're one of those people who only wants PREFTIGIOUS public interest. Sigh. I don't know if I buy into the whole "I won't feel fulfilled doing biglaw, but I could only feel fulfilled doing other work at the highest possible level" thing. But anyway, good luck.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Scotusnerd » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:20 am

There's no question it's brutal out there man. It's really not fair, either. 2L (which I'm going through) has been by far the most difficult time of my life.

You should consider looking at state service as well. I know that federal is "where it's at", but to be honest, some state agencies are pretty good. There's life outside of biglaw and feds, and honestly it's not too bad, at least in my experience.

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mephistopheles
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby mephistopheles » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:54 am

yeah, i'm in a similar boat to you, OP, and I'm floundering.

i literally haven't had the motivation to do anything.

trying to work that shit up now.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby brotherdarkness » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:39 am

.
Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby kalvano » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:44 am

Law school blows. Being an actual lawyer is way, way better. I liked all the jobs / internships during school where I had to do real, actual legal work. And I like my real job quite a bit.

Real law is very different from law school.

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Nelson
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Nelson » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:46 am

You guys need to force yourselves to chill out. Some (many) law students suck, sure, but the solution to that is just avoid them. Develop a life outside of law school and don't let it consume you. Don't engage in the petty comparisons of what firms you're going to and what clerkships you're applying to. In law school as in life, living well is the best revenge.

If you're on law review and in the position to apply for clerkships, you've already won. Stop trying to convince yourself your life is bad.

Edited to add: stop expecting your job to validate and fulfill your every hope and dream. You're going to have an interesting job (compared to most) and you're going to make plenty of money doing it. You're going to have (potentially) exit options into govt that you can't foresee now and that are not going to require a SCOTUS clerkship. I'm usually pretty cynical about law school and legal jobs, but law review people with SAs are in a different situation.

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby fundamentallybroken » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:00 pm

Nelson wrote:Stop trying to convince yourself your life is bad.


This.

OP's tl;dr: "I won the law school lottery, and now my diamond shoes are too tight, and my wallet is too small for my fifties!"

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hephaestus
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby hephaestus » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:04 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:Another 2L with similar feelings reporting in.

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rinkrat19
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:23 pm

Has SA; didn't read.

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Danger Zone
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Danger Zone » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:26 pm

Ah whatever.
Last edited by Danger Zone on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ph14
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby ph14 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:27 pm

Just wait until 3L.

TLSaul2001
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby TLSaul2001 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:27 pm

It completely astounds me that people make a 3 year, $200,000+ commitment without knowing what they're getting into. Yeah there's luck involved. Yeah journals suck. Yeah the employment prospects are grim. Any amount of research before applying to school would have told you all these things. You have good grades and are on Law Review, stop crying and find the job you want. You can still work for the state or a non-profit, there are loan repayment schemes that will help you if you enter those fields. It's not big law or bust.

Think about the kid who's bottom 1/3 of his class as a 3L at a TTT with $250k in debt and NO job prospects. THAT kids life sucks, your situation isn't bad at all.

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bk1
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:30 pm

Law students are such drama queens.

Oh and lol @ 1/4 of people on your LR or any LR being anywhere close to geniuses.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:42 pm

I'm a 3L and the hate really kicked in second semester of 1L. I actually like the vast majority of the people I go to law school with, it's the whole system that I hate. Crim Pro professor who doesn't know the criminal law in the state of Colorado because she teaches us the law of never-never land, aka law school law, cross jurisdictional "majority rule" bullshit that is only applicable in law school. Even the professors I like are so academic that no one can relate to them. Also try asking your professors at a regional school for career advice?? They went to Yale and graduated in the 80s... I had one tell me, as a first semester 3L, that I should really consider the DOJ Honor's Program because I have what it takes to be a trial attorney. Gee thanks.

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ph14
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby ph14 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:47 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:I'm a 3L and the hate really kicked in second semester of 1L. I actually like the vast majority of the people I go to law school with, it's the whole system that I hate. Crim Pro professor who doesn't know the criminal law in the state of Colorado because she teaches us the law of never-never land, aka law school law, cross jurisdictional "majority rule" bullshit that is only applicable in law school. Even the professors I like are so academic that no one can relate to them. Also try asking your professors at a regional school for career advice?? They went to Yale and graduated in the 80s... I had one tell me, as a first semester 3L, that I should really consider the DOJ Honor's Program because I have what it takes to be a trial attorney. Gee thanks.


"Just get a Supreme Court Clerkship bro."

TLSaul2001
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby TLSaul2001 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:48 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote: Also try asking your professors at a regional school for career advice?? They went to Yale and graduated in the 80s... I had one tell me, as a first semester 3L, that I should really consider the DOJ Honor's Program because I have what it takes to be a trial attorney. Gee thanks.


This is a good point. Career services is also pretty useless. I have one teacher who's a practicing defense attorney who went to a regional school so he's pretty helpful but the vast majority of professors have no clue. He even jokes how the only reason he got the job teaching was because he was friends with someone who was retiring, all the other teachers went to T14's.

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ph14
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby ph14 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:51 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:I'm a 3L and the hate really kicked in second semester of 1L. I actually like the vast majority of the people I go to law school with, it's the whole system that I hate. Crim Pro professor who doesn't know the criminal law in the state of Colorado because she teaches us the law of never-never land, aka law school law, cross jurisdictional "majority rule" bullshit that is only applicable in law school. Even the professors I like are so academic that no one can relate to them. Also try asking your professors at a regional school for career advice?? They went to Yale and graduated in the 80s... I had one tell me, as a first semester 3L, that I should really consider the DOJ Honor's Program because I have what it takes to be a trial attorney. Gee thanks.


http://hlrecord.org/?p=15629:
Dear Class of 2015,

Congratulations on completing your first semester of law school. Here are a couple things for you to keep in mind as we approach the time for grades to be released:

* * *

Professor Hal Scott got a D in Constitutional Law. “We do some of that here,” Justice Byron White told Scott when he went for a clerkship interview. Scott nonetheless was selected to serve as one of Justice White’s few Supreme Court law clerks.

* * *

Professor Einer Elhauge said “I know a guy who got mainly C’s his first year at Harvard Law. He went on to become general counsel of a major federal agency, leading lawyer in his field, and author of the leading casebook in his field. It is much more about the passion you have for your field than anything.”

* * *

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Nelson
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby Nelson » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:02 pm

bk1 wrote:Law students are such drama queens.

So much this.

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thesealocust
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Re: 2L Rant

Postby thesealocust » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:25 pm

Law school bad drinking good




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