Erie - Hanna - Byrd Tests? Forum

[bdm261]

CivPro prof. was discussing the tests each case put forth; I was completely lost because she was zipping around the board making illegible scribbles with the magic marker and talking a hundred miles per minute like this was all review for us. I ended up taking no meaningful notes today and just sat there frustrated. She says we need to understand it all by Wed. and I'm looking for some simple way to determine when federal courts apply state or federal law - it can't be this difficult, or is it?

[guano]

This is probably oversimplified but when a federal court is hearing a matter under diversity jurisdiction, state law applies. When a federal court is hearing a matter under original jurisdiction, federal law applies

[mr.hands]

This is probably oversimplified but when a federal court is hearing a matter under diversity jurisdiction, state law applies. When a federal court is hearing a matter under original jurisdiction, federal law applies

This is an oversimplification and doesn't really get to the heart of Erie. The answer depends largely on the facts you're presented with.

Look around online, or in a supplement like Crunchtime, for an Erie flow chart. I'm not a flow-chart-kind-of-guy but this is one of the few areas in 1L where i found it to be *extremely* helpful. (i would give you the one i used but i can't find it on my hard drive). Memorize the flow chart, or use it during your test if that's allowed, and you can go step-by-step through it without much trouble

[gchatbrah]

This is probably oversimplified but when a federal court is hearing a matter under diversity jurisdiction, state law applies. When a federal court is hearing a matter under original jurisdiction, federal law applies

This is an oversimplification and doesn't really get to the heart of Erie. The answer depends largely on the facts you're presented with.

Look around online, or in a supplement like Crunchtime, for an Erie flow chart. I'm not a flow-chart-kind-of-guy but this is one of the few areas in 1L where i found it to be *extremely* helpful. (i would give you the one i used but i can't find it on my hard drive). Memorize the flow chart, or use it during your test if that's allowed, and you can go step-by-step through it without much trouble

Acing Civil Procedure provides a set of checklists that you can use for exams. Great starting point -- we had an open book exam so I even brought it in to the classroom with me. Regardless, it helps you structure a personal outline.

[thementor31337]

I found part III(A) of Justice Ginsburg's opinion in Gasperini v. Center for Humanities, Inc., 518 U.S. 526 (1996) to be super helpful in clearly describing the tests for the three cases. I don't know if you got to that yet, but that case came right after the Erie, Guaranty Trust, Hanna trifecta in our casebook.

[dj_roomba]

Not sure. Maybe this might help. I'm a 1L too so.... yeah you might want to check this before taking my word for it

Erie: Very generally, in federal claims, state law applies.

Byrd: Not sure what the "rule" is but out of the 3 points that the Court made, it seems like the "rule" would be that state laws cannot alter the essential character or function of a federal court (use of a jury)

Hanna test: Under York, federal court judgments should come out the same way as if it were determined in state court. However, this test was an oversimplification. The real purpose was to prevent forum shopping and inequitable administration of law. Also, Erie was never supposed to void a federal rule. Instead, it was supposed to show that state law should be used when there is no federal rule. Not sure what the "rule" is but I'm guessing it has to do with that last sentence (that state law can't void federal rule)

There are other factors, such as generally, if the State's highest court has not declared a law, the federal court has to act like another state court, using lower state court holdings and high state court's dicta

[sanjola]

CivPro prof. was discussing the tests each case put forth; I was completely lost because she was zipping around the board making illegible scribbles with the magic marker and talking a hundred miles per minute like this was all review for us. I ended up taking no meaningful notes today and just sat there frustrated. She says we need to understand it all by Wed. and I'm looking for some simple way to determine when federal courts apply state or federal law - it can't be this difficult, or is it?

Are we in the same class?!

[bk1]

This is how my prof taught it:

Erie deals with cases where you have a conflict of law between state and fed law. State law controls substantive issues and fed law controls procedural issues. However it becomes murky when you actually look at given laws (e.g. is a statute of limitations substantive or procedural?)

Pre-Erie - in diversity cases apply state statutory law but fed common law (not state common law)
Erie - in diversity cases apply state common law too, thus state law controls substantive issues and fed law controls procedural issues
Hanna - how to decide which rule to apply? look to source of fed law:
[*]if fed law is from statute/FRCP/constitution, then it is presumptively valid and controls (you don't even have to do an Erie analysis since there is no conflict since these fed laws preempt state law).
[*]if fed law is from fed common law or fed judge made law, then it is not presumptively valid and you have to do Byrd/Hanna/York/Erie tests to determine whether the fed law or state law should be applied.
Shady Grove - if there seems to be no conflict at first, is it possible to broaden the statute/FRCP/constitution to create conflict and thus apply fed law over state law?
Gasperini - if there is a conflict, is it possible to narrow the statute/FRCP/constitution to avoid conflict and thus apply state law over fed law?

ERIE TESTS
Pure Erie Test - reducing forum shopping, prevent inequitable administration of laws
Byrd Test - balancing state interest in substantive rights with federal interest in procedural uniformity
Hanna+York Test - outcome determinative test, look to see whether applying fed rule from the point of view of the start of the lawsuit would create a different outcome from applying the state law