legal writing is the bane of my existence

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Wearthewildthingsr
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legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby Wearthewildthingsr » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:10 am

it just is what it do.

mr.hands
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby mr.hands » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:35 am

Wearthewildthingsr wrote:it just is what it do.


i think i may have found your problem

Lhutz
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby Lhutz » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:48 pm

A lot of people seemed to feel this way during 1L. I didn't really understand all the hate for it. Do you want to do corporate work? If so, you can probably forget about most of the class after your 1L year. But, if you want to get into any litigation based practice and hate legal writing, you may want to reconsider careers quickly.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:12 pm

Lawyers are professional writers. This is not news.

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Lacepiece23
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby Lacepiece23 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:41 pm

Idk... I hated LRW, but really enjoyed writing memos this summer at my firm. I thinks its possible to not like the class, but still want to do litigation. For me it was just too tedious putting so many hours into one product. Also, I felt like I was less free to come up with creative arguments during class assignments. However, during the summer I was often complemented for coming up with something outside of the box. Furthermore, my memos were very concise. A lot of times in LRW I felt like the issue could have been addressed very quickly.

Just my opinion on the class though. I do not think it necessarily follows that if you hate LRW then you will hate litigation.

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stillwater
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby stillwater » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:37 pm

LRW is not real legal writing. I hated LRW and liked legal writing in a real-life context.

Now, one piece of advice is to be cognizant of how many credits your LRW is weighed. If it is relatively minimal, then don't spend much time on it. By the end of the year, your LRW is unlikely to move your grade more than .02 or something. Could be consequential but you'd rather rack up As in the big credit substantive courses. Also, at a certain point further work on memos seems to be of diminishing returns. Make friends with your LRW teacher, probably more important that how good your memo is.

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IAFG
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby IAFG » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:45 pm

LRW is the same as practicing litigation like pro wrestling is the same as street brawling.

Lhutz
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby Lhutz » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:03 pm

IAFG wrote:LRW is the same as practicing litigation like pro wrestling is the same as street brawling.


I don't know what other people's legal writing & research classes were like, but mine were pretty practical and similar to small/midsized litigation practice. Sure, it's not the exact same thing, but if you hate drafting a fake MSJ in class, you'll probably hate doing it routinely for 40 years. It's certainly a lot closer to practice than any other class.

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IAFG
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby IAFG » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:37 pm

Lhutz wrote:
IAFG wrote:LRW is the same as practicing litigation like pro wrestling is the same as street brawling.


I don't know what other people's legal writing & research classes were like, but mine were pretty practical and similar to small/midsized litigation practice. Sure, it's not the exact same thing, but if you hate drafting a fake MSJ in class, you'll probably hate doing it routinely for 40 years. It's certainly a lot closer to practice than any other class.

Okay, so it's closer to practice than a bunch of classes that have NOTHING to do with practice. And pro wrestling has a couple things in common with street fighting, and if you're not into fighting, you probably won't like either.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby brotherdarkness » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:47 pm

.
Last edited by brotherdarkness on Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:57 pm

I pretty much liked Legal Writing (and no, it's not the same as practice, but it's closer and more helpful to me than many classes I took). But 1) I'm a huge nerd and 2) I think a lot of it depends on your prof - I had one of the good ones. The bad profs made people MISERABLE. And although our last LRW assignments were due before finals season, I probably did put too much time into the class compared to doctrinal courses (my LRW class was graded, but 2 credits).

Gorki
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby Gorki » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:27 pm

I would take LRW seriously if only b/c whatever you write in there will most likely be your writing sample for OCI... I wrote nothing during my 1L summer that was anywhere near as refined or detailed.

That said, LRW is basically easy mode in that your "case file" usually comes with prefabricated affidavits, possibly a complaint and answer, or at the very least some type of filing. I do not work in BIGLAW but yeah maybe LRW was a worthless joke in that context, but knowing how to format and draft an entire memorandum of law yourself is pretty important if you end up in a small shop. Hell, IMO a motion/relief, affidavit, and complaint drafting class should be mandatory at MOST law schools.

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rinkrat19
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:35 pm

I loathed CLR, got a crappy grade, had a prof who gave utterly useless feedback (making improvement pretty much impossible), and then spent the summer in a local government office getting told I was one of the best writers they'd ever had as an intern, they couldn't believe I was just a 1L, and they were going to reconsider not usually hiring 1Ls after seeing the work a 1L from my school produced. I've heard similar stories from classmates who also hated CLR here.

So battle through, do your best, but even if you feel like legal writing is kicking your ass, it probably isn't as bad as it seems.*



*Assuming you were a decent non-legal writer to begin with. There are legitimately bad writers in law school, although I assume not that many in the T14.

Wearthewildthingsr
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby Wearthewildthingsr » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:23 am

my prof is actually really good and gives very good and detailed feedback. I just realize that to do well in this class I'm gonna have to allocate more time than I would like to from my doctrinal classes. also it's graded so yeah if it were ungraded I would've chuckled and probably put the least minimal effort possible to not piss off my teacher. also another reason why I'm sorta giving this a serious attempt, aside from obv grade, is that I would think that my employers would weigh heavily on me getting a low grade in legal writing.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:37 am

Some might differ, but I tend to believe there is correlation between good legal writers and good law school test takers. A skilled legal writer will write a good law school exam. Consider your audience. If you can learn to write lawyer-esqe by the time of your exams, your professors will sense that skill in the way of draft your arguments on an exam. Your professor will assume you know what you're talking about if you sound like other lawyers he's confronted in his life.

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rinkrat19
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:38 am

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Some might differ, but I tend to believe there is correlation between good legal writers and good law school test takers. A skilled legal writer will write a good law school exam. Consider your audience. If you can learn to write lawyer-esqe by the time of your exams, your professors will sense that skill in the way of draft your arguments on an exam. Your professor will assume you know what you're talking about if you sound like other lawyers he's confronted in his life.

That would be true if most professors graded your exams on the elegance of your prose and not how many issues you spotted that they check off on their grading rubric.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:48 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:Some might differ, but I tend to believe there is correlation between good legal writers and good law school test takers. A skilled legal writer will write a good law school exam. Consider your audience. If you can learn to write lawyer-esqe by the time of your exams, your professors will sense that skill in the way of draft your arguments on an exam. Your professor will assume you know what you're talking about if you sound like other lawyers he's confronted in his life.

That would be true if most professors graded your exams on the elegance of your prose and not how many issues you spotted that they check off on their grading rubric.

Yeah, I think this really varies by professor. I've had professors thank me for writing well on exams but tell me it doesn't get me a better grade than the person who wrote terribly but spotted more issues. I've had profs who were basically fine with bullet points. And I've had profs who grade for writing (and tell the class that they do). I think there is a slight subliminal advantage to writing well - you do sound like you know what you're doing, and if you and someone who writes poorly got all the same points for issue-spotting/policy analysis, you'll probably come out slightly ahead on the better writing. But good writing in and of itself doesn't have to translate into exam success, at least not with all profs.

Stinson
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Re: legal writing is the bane of my existence

Postby Stinson » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:10 am

It is fully possible to hate LRW class and

1. Like litigation
2. Be okay in litigation
3. Enjoy actual legal writing

So no worries if it isn't your thing. Many people don't like it/have bad experiences with it.




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