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Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:01 am
by thesealocust
Danger Zone wrote:Do the 2Ls get to join in for our post-OCI meltdowns?

Or should we just bump the "drop out now" thread.


:lol: I have not fully though that through. 2L issues are less stupid law school mind games and more the challenges of real life, and I kind of suck at life so I may not be the best at helping but feel free to commiserate otherwise?

dykstaab wrote:Thank you for making this thread. The gunners in my section have already made a study group and constantly talk about it (clearly so that the others in our section can hear about it). I know it's irrational, but part of me is thinking that they are going to be figuring out things that I won't (although I am pretty sure they will just argue moot points with each other). Definitely adding to my stress level when it shouldn't. Should I be worried about this at all?


The posturing can be the worst - you can't hold it against people for wanting to do well, but being so obnoxious and vocal about it is a real pity. You should let it get under your skin - study groups actual just help ease anxiety without being beneficial in a huge percentage of cases. There is no secret to be discovered by the blind leading the blind, you have nothing to fear.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:33 pm
by shifty_eyed
Officially freaking out at my lack of legal writing ability. It takes me so long to write a paragraph, and then I revise it three times, and I'm still not satisfied with it. Please tell me it gets easier.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:34 pm
by hephaestus
shifty_eyed wrote:Officially freaking out at my lack of legal writing ability. It takes me so long to write a paragraph, and then I revise it three times, and I'm still not satisfied with it. Please tell me it gets easier.

You will get better with practice. You'd be surprised how much easier it is for you at the end of the year.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:35 pm
by Pretzel_Logic
shifty_eyed wrote:Officially freaking out at my lack of legal writing ability. It takes me so long to write a paragraph, and then I revise it three times, and I'm still not satisfied with it. Please tell me it gets easier.


I'm not TSL but it does get easier. You're brand new at it and it's a little like learning a new language. You'll get it.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:44 pm
by shifty_eyed
Thanks. I also think the K-JDs have an upper hand here. I haven't written a paper in years! :shock:

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:46 pm
by kay2016
shifty_eyed wrote:Thanks. I also think the K-JDs have an upper hand here. I haven't written a paper in years! :shock:


Not necessarily true! It's a completely different style of writing :/

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:54 pm
by chem!
shifty_eyed wrote:Officially freaking out at my lack of legal writing ability. It takes me so long to write a paragraph, and then I revise it three times, and I'm still not satisfied with it. Please tell me it gets easier.

I do exactly the same thing.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:00 pm
by thesealocust
shifty_eyed wrote:Officially freaking out at my lack of legal writing ability. It takes me so long to write a paragraph, and then I revise it three times, and I'm still not satisfied with it. Please tell me it gets easier.


It gets easier! You've got to crawl blindly and slam face-first into a wall, slowly and repeatedly, before you walk in this profession :) And everyone is in the same boat, no worries.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:04 pm
by thesealocust
Also nobody apologize for not being me if you're responding with kind and encouraging thoughts. That's exactly y'all law students need, this thread has my name on it because of my raging narcissism and not any particular monopoly on perspective.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:10 pm
by Pretzel_Logic
thesealocust wrote:Also nobody apologize for not being me if you're responding with kind and encouraging thoughts. That's exactly y'all law students need, this thread has my name on it because of my raging narcissism and not any particular monopoly on perspective.


I'm pretty sure you got better grades than me so your perspective might be slightly more comforting. :D

Not that I did badly by any means, but you know.

Re: legal writing--I'm not going to lie, I hate it, and I still feel like I'm not great at it. For reference, I was an English major, and it is COMPLETELY different to write the way you're supposed to in law. COMPLETELY. But what helped me most was practicing like crazy and taking challenging "real life" classes during 3L after I got b-slapped by red pen my 2L summer. The most helpful classes were taught by AUSAs, for what that's worth. It really is okay (and normal) to feel like the dog with the chemistry set. But that said, don't sacrifice mastering basic concepts during 1L gunning for dat A in legal writing. Just don't do it. I realize I just asked you to strike the impossible balance, but hell, even my LRW prof said that (also an AUSA...I'm sensing a theme).

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:38 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
I think the thing that makes legal writing hard for most people is that a lot of people who end up in law school were naturally decent at writing in a way that UG profs rewarded, and rarely had to think about how they were really doing that writing, or how to write for other audiences/purposes. It's really like learning a second language after learning English (or whatever your first language was) naturally as you learned to talk. Also, research shows that writing skills regress when you have to apply them to a totally new context of stuff of other new stuff you're learning. So it's totally natural to feel dumb at legal writing, and the upside of its odd formulaicness is that eventually you will "get it" and it will get better/easier (I know someone who only really got IRAC after his 1L summer, which he spent reading judicial opinions for his internship - at a certain point he went ohhhhhhhhhh, these are all following the same format and it's the format they were trying to teach us in LRW!).

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:40 pm
by thesealocust
And if you never get good at legal writing - or just don't want to - you can join the cool kids in a corporate/legislative/regulatory practice 8)

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:57 pm
by Pretzel_Logic
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think the thing that makes legal writing hard for most people is that a lot of people who end up in law school were naturally decent at writing in a way that UG profs rewarded, and rarely had to think about how they were really doing that writing, or how to write for other audiences/purposes. It's really like learning a second language after learning English (or whatever your first language was) naturally as you learned to talk. Also, research shows that writing skills regress when you have to apply them to a totally new context of stuff of other new stuff you're learning. So it's totally natural to feel dumb at legal writing, and the upside of its odd formulaicness is that eventually you will "get it" and it will get better/easier (I know someone who only really got IRAC after his 1L summer, which he spent reading judicial opinions for his internship - at a certain point he went ohhhhhhhhhh, these are all following the same format and it's the format they were trying to teach us in LRW!).


This. All of this.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:05 pm
by Lumieres
Trying to figure out how much effort I need to put into LRW to get an A...

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:17 pm
by Dogg
Lumieres wrote:Trying to figure out how much effort I need to put into LRW to get an A...

if you're on TLS, not enough effort

but for real, editing and revising, meeting with the prof, etc all help a lot (especially meeting with the prof)

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:56 pm
by finnandjake2
Thanks for the great thread.

My thoughts... Go home LRW you're drunk.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:57 pm
by Easy-E
Thank you for this thread. I constantly feel like everyone else is reading way ahead and I'm an idiot and I should have just become a chef. Should we be outlining yet? I'm keeping my stress at bay by basically keeping my weekends free and my nights open for GTA.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:04 pm
by Pretzel_Logic
emarxnj wrote:Thank you for this thread. I constantly feel like everyone else is reading way ahead and I'm an idiot and I should have just become a chef. Should we be outlining yet? I'm keeping my stress at bay by basically keeping my weekends free and my nights open for GTA.


eff no, I never outlined before november. I rarely outlined even then before thanksgiving break. that worked well for me because I didn't ever feel like I had a big enough chunk of material to see the big picture of the class until about that point in the semester. most of my class quit going out after halloween.

I also went to basketball games the weekend before finals all three years. #yolo.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:17 pm
by arklaw13
I get mixed signals about a lot of things.

LRW - had to turn in a draft of a closed universe memo recently with a 3k word limit. Some people said it only took them 2k or less, I used all 3k. Starting to wonder whether I included things that didn't matter. I have to revise it and turn it in in a couple weeks for a real grade, like 25% of the LRW this semester. Pretty sure writing profs want brevity, but why would they give a 3k limit if I couldn't potentially use all of it and do well?

Haven't started outlining or anything. One of my profs said she doesn't put too much stock into outlining really. I'm trying to figure out how this translates into how to prepare for her exam. It's contracts and pretty much everything has been Restatement and UCC so far. So I'm guessing just have a copy of those with my and just apply it to the fact pattern?

My classes are so policy-oriented I'm pretty sure the exams are just going to consist of making endless pro/con arguments about the different ways the law could come out and why with respect to the issues presented by the fact patterns. Is that generally everyone's experience?

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:21 pm
by thesealocust
emarxnj wrote:Thank you for this thread. I constantly feel like everyone else is reading way ahead and I'm an idiot and I should have just become a chef. Should we be outlining yet? I'm keeping my stress at bay by basically keeping my weekends free and my nights open for GTA.


You're not an idiot. Part of what makes it so hard is paranoia that everyone else is harder/better/faster than you... in reality, everyone is just as scared.

It's too early to feel like you should be outlining. Try it if you want, but there's no reason you need to be at this point.

GTA is a good use of your time at this stage :)

Dylanlj13 wrote:I get mixed signals about a lot of things.

LRW - had to turn in a draft of a closed universe memo recently with a 3k word limit. Some people said it only took them 2k or less, I used all 3k. Starting to wonder whether I included things that didn't matter. I have to revise it and turn it in in a couple weeks for a real grade, like 25% of the LRW this semester. Pretty sure writing profs want brevity, but why would they give a 3k limit if I couldn't potentially use all of it and do well?

Haven't started outlining or anything. One of my profs said she doesn't put too much stock into outlining really. I'm trying to figure out how this translates into how to prepare for her exam. It's contracts and pretty much everything has been Restatement and UCC so far. So I'm guessing just have a copy of those with my and just apply it to the fact pattern?

My classes are so policy-oriented I'm pretty sure the exams are just going to consist of making endless pro/con arguments about the different ways the law could come out and why with respect to the issues presented by the fact patterns. Is that generally everyone's experience?


As I said to the above poster, relax on outlining. It's a good thing to do, but you have plenty of time and shouldn't feel behind at all if you haven't done any - or even though about doing any. It will take you more time to do/get the hang of as a first semester 1L, but successful students often don't outline until as late as the week before the exam once they know what they're doing.

Classes themselves will often be very policy heavy but have straightforward issue spotters, don't automatically conclude policy heavy class = just talk about how you feel about the law on the exam. Even policy questions tend to be assessed in the exact same way as straight BLL race horse exams: by the strength and quantity of the arguments you come up with.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:32 pm
by Easy-E
thesealocust wrote:
emarxnj wrote:Thank you for this thread. I constantly feel like everyone else is reading way ahead and I'm an idiot and I should have just become a chef. Should we be outlining yet? I'm keeping my stress at bay by basically keeping my weekends free and my nights open for GTA.


You're not an idiot. Part of what makes it so hard is paranoia that everyone else is harder/better/faster than you... in reality, everyone is just as scared.

It's too early to feel like you should be outlining. Try it if you want, but there's no reason you need to be at this point.

GTA is a good use of your time at this stage :)


Thanks man. I kinda figured I need to wait on outlining until I have a bigger picture. We just got to future properties in property, so I guess I'm feeling assaulted by that. Reading Getting to Maybe in my downtime/travel time is helping alleviate some stress too.

I had a somewhat reassuring experience with my Ks teacher too. I was asking something after class, and we got into a discussion about the class overall. She asked me where I thought the class was getting confused (referring specifically to students who speak out the most), mentioning they clearly read ahead despite what she said, and are incorrectly trying to apply concepts they don't understand. So, just because your classmates (gunners in particular) sound like lawyers already, don't get worried. They are week 4 1Ls and don't know diddly-dick either.



And god yes GTA is good. I like to keep my apartment as a "safe-zone", an idea I took from one of the 1L guides.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:39 pm
by Lumieres
Wth is GTA? I thought people were talking about getting to maybe first, but nah.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:43 pm
by thesealocust
Lumieres wrote:Wth is GTA? I thought people were talking about getting to maybe first, but nah.


Grand Theft Auto V, a new video game that was released recently :)

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:02 pm
by Easy-E
thesealocust wrote:
Lumieres wrote:Wth is GTA? I thought people were talking about getting to maybe first, but nah.


Grand Theft Auto V, a new video game that was released recently :)


It's like Getting to Maybe, if the "maybe" was to beat up hookers.

Re: TheSeaLocust's 1L Anxiety Meditation Retreat & Spa

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:23 pm
by Bikeflip
emarxnj wrote:
Thanks man. I kinda figured I need to wait on outlining until I have a bigger picture.



I went to a lawyer mixer, and a bunch of 1Ls showed up. I told them that my lawl skool friends and I tried to outline in Sept, then we realized we were wasting our time. You don't really know what you're doing right now.

If you still feel the need to outline in Sept, just go back and clean up your notes. By that, I mean go back and read your notes to see if they make sense, delete anything that was resembles dicking around in class, and highlight any concepts you don't understand.

If you have a ton of highlights, don't worry. You've got 2 months, and a bunch of those highlights will work themselves out as you learn new concepts. As such, don't try to learn all the highlights right now. If you're going to try to learn all the highlights anyway, don't do it on your own, and don't let your dumbass classmates teach them to you. Go to office hours.

The whole purpose of cleaning up your notes is to know where your strengths and weaknesses are. In the second half of the semester, you can start honing in on those weaknesses, but don't try to correct everything now. Knowing where you suck is a very good skill to acquire in lawl skool.