Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

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Void
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Void » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:15 pm

KCMax wrote:No, it is not good. I finished in the bottom third of my class at a third tier school and made $38k out of school - ten years ago.

OTOH, my salary only inched along over time. If you think you can make more pretty quickly, or slumming it for a year or two will land you a much better paying job, than I suppose its worth it.


No offense, but this information became instantly irrelevant as soon as I read the bolded.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:18 pm

Void wrote:
KCMax wrote:No, it is not good. I finished in the bottom third of my class at a third tier school and made $38k out of school - ten years ago.

OTOH, my salary only inched along over time. If you think you can make more pretty quickly, or slumming it for a year or two will land you a much better paying job, than I suppose its worth it.


No offense, but this information became instantly irrelevant as soon as I read the bolded.

I think the point was that if this person made $38K to start 10 years ago, no, $30K is not a good salary for a law grad.

Void
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Void » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:26 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Void wrote:
KCMax wrote:No, it is not good. I finished in the bottom third of my class at a third tier school and made $38k out of school - ten years ago.

OTOH, my salary only inched along over time. If you think you can make more pretty quickly, or slumming it for a year or two will land you a much better paying job, than I suppose its worth it.


No offense, but this information became instantly irrelevant as soon as I read the bolded.

I think the point was that if this person made $38K to start 10 years ago, no, $30K is not a good salary for a law grad.


Yeah I got that, but I also thought that he was saying that since he finished in the bottom third of his class, $38k was a shitty salary 10 years ago. Many/Most law grads coming from the bottoms of their classes nowadays make about $0. So my point was that a salary that was considered shitty 10 years ago isn't really relevant to what is considered shitty now.

That said, $30k for a full-time firm job (where you're expected to work wayyy beyond 9-5, etc.) is certainly shitty.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:27 pm

Void wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Void wrote:
KCMax wrote:No, it is not good. I finished in the bottom third of my class at a third tier school and made $38k out of school - ten years ago.

OTOH, my salary only inched along over time. If you think you can make more pretty quickly, or slumming it for a year or two will land you a much better paying job, than I suppose its worth it.


No offense, but this information became instantly irrelevant as soon as I read the bolded.

I think the point was that if this person made $38K to start 10 years ago, no, $30K is not a good salary for a law grad.


Yeah I got that, but I also thought that he was saying that since he finished in the bottom third of his class, $38k was a shitty salary 10 years ago. Many/Most law grads coming from the bottoms of their classes nowadays make about $0. So my point was that a salary that was considered shitty 10 years ago isn't really relevant to what is considered shitty now.

That said, $30k for a full-time firm job (where you're expected to work wayyy beyond 9-5, etc.) is certainly shitty.

Oh, okay.

09042014
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:31 pm

Eh, bottom of TTT's was never good for a job. Even in boom times, nearly 50% of grads never really practiced law at TTT's.

ITE just allowed the WSJ to write a bunch of sob stories about people at elite schools who got fucked over.

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shepdawg
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby shepdawg » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:38 am

That wage is crazy. I wouldn't be able to get by on that in San Diego, let alone manhattan.

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Moves like JAGger
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:01 pm

update: second interview with U-Haul tomorrow.

law office is fumigating for bed bugs, I may get to work at home for a few days.

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romothesavior
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:12 pm

This thread should be shouted from the mountaintops in the Choosing a Law School Forum. A recent law graduate (competitive enough to land JAG) is honestly considering an hourly job at U-Haul over a job at a Manhattan law firm. What a noble and honorable profession we're in.

Sub-40k in Manhattan is a joke and your firm should be embarrassed for themselves. I would scoff at 30-35k here in STL, and my rent is like a third or a quarter of what most folks are looking at in NYC. Unfortunately, I'll bet this kind of shitgig is more common than most people realize.

Glad to hear you've got JAG on the horizon, OP. That'll be a solid job with solid pay and benefits.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:16 pm

When people are taking 10K per year in Boston anything can happen. We law grads put our foot down when that CT lawyer asked US to pay HIM. But we're still willing to work for free or below minimum wage.

Void
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Void » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:37 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:When people are taking 10K per year in Boston anything can happen. We law grads put our foot down when that CT lawyer asked US to pay HIM. But we're still willing to work for free or below minimum wage.


Do you have a link to this?

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Moves like JAGger
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:43 pm

romothesavior wrote:This thread should be shouted from the mountaintops in the Choosing a Law School Forum. A recent law graduate (competitive enough to land JAG) is honestly considering an hourly job at U-Haul over a job at a Manhattan law firm. What a noble and honorable profession we're in.

Sub-40k in Manhattan is a joke and your firm should be embarrassed for themselves. I would scoff at 30-35k here in STL, and my rent is like a third or a quarter of what most folks are looking at in NYC. Unfortunately, I'll bet this kind of shitgig is more common than most people realize.

Glad to hear you've got JAG on the horizon, OP. That'll be a solid job with solid pay and benefits.



Thanks for the kind words. I couldn't be more thrilled and humbled by the opportunity.

Hope my experience is instructive. I went to a T2 and, once upon a time, was 18th percentile heading into OCI. EIC of secondary journal. Never even got a callback. So I worked at this firm for two years hoping to land a sustainable gig upon graduation. TBF, I probably couldn've leveraged my time "time in service" in order to get more money -- but with JAG on the horizon it wasn't worth the hassle. I'd rather be on cruise control until I get my orders than bust my ass to "justify" 40-45k. Ha.

New York Shitty, indeed.

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laxbrah420
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby laxbrah420 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:17 pm

$38,000 is a cushy salary for a regional branch manager.

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jingosaur
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby jingosaur » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:20 pm

Your office's janitor is probably in a union and makes around $55k a year with health care. So you're actually worse off than the janitor. At $35k, you won't be able to afford Manhattan even with roommates and your QOL will be absolute crap. If it's your only offer, I guess you can take the job and just look for something else. Once bar results come back, your options may open up a little bit more.*

*I'm a 0L so I don't know much about legal employment, but I've worked in the city for a couple of years.

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haus
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby haus » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:27 pm

jingosaur wrote:Your office's janitor is probably in a union and makes around $55k a year with health care. So you're actually worse off than the janitor. At $35k, you won't be able to afford Manhattan even with roommates and your QOL will be absolute crap. If it's your only offer, I guess you can take the job and just look for something else. Once bar results come back, your options may open up a little bit more.*

*I'm a 0L so I don't know much about legal employment, but I've worked in the city for a couple of years.

In defense of the janitor, at many firms a really good janitor is probably more of a diffrence maker than yet another attorney who has just stepped out of law school.

nelaw2010
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby nelaw2010 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:34 pm

Doorman in NY makes at least $80k/year.

Void
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Void » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:30 pm

nelaw2010 wrote:Doorman in NY makes at least $80k/year.


"At least?" So the lowest paid doorman in the entire city makes $80k? I know this is TLS but that's a pretty ridiculous exaggeration.

Void
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Void » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:33 pm

"Doormen add cachet, but they don't cash in. "I think it stinks," says a 25-year-old doorman at a West Village high-rise, referring to the piddling pay. A union doorman -- and they are all in the union -- must log 30 months on the job at $25,680 before he tops out at $32,000 (the same wages apply to front-desk workers and porters, regardless of the building's size or neighborhood). According to Bill Meyerson, of the Service Employees International Union, Local 32B-32J, which represents the city's building-service employees, the only way to move up is to become a super, for an average salary of $39,000. Add the $5,000 in Christmas-bonus money that's common in a big building, and it still isn't enough to keep the young doorman nostalgic about logging and lugging packages and guarding tenants against jilted lovers and stalkers: "This is definitely not a career.""

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/bizfinanc ... ures/4086/

Gorki
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Gorki » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:04 pm

Void wrote:"Doormen add cachet, but they don't cash in. "I think it stinks," says a 25-year-old doorman at a West Village high-rise, referring to the piddling pay. A union doorman -- and they are all in the union -- must log 30 months on the job at $25,680 before he tops out at $32,000 (the same wages apply to front-desk workers and porters, regardless of the building's size or neighborhood). According to Bill Meyerson, of the Service Employees International Union, Local 32B-32J, which represents the city's building-service employees, the only way to move up is to become a super, for an average salary of $39,000. Add the $5,000 in Christmas-bonus money that's common in a big building, and it still isn't enough to keep the young doorman nostalgic about logging and lugging packages and guarding tenants against jilted lovers and stalkers: "This is definitely not a career.""

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/bizfinanc ... ures/4086/


Shit, there goes that plan.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Bronx Bum » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:18 am

jingosaur wrote:Your office's janitor is probably in a union and makes around $55k a year with health care. So you're actually worse off than the janitor. At $35k, you won't be able to afford Manhattan even with roommates and your QOL will be absolute crap. If it's your only offer, I guess you can take the job and just look for something else. Once bar results come back, your options may open up a little bit more.*

*I'm a 0L so I don't know much about legal employment, but I've worked in the city for a couple of years.


Then why are you even commenting?

Good luck getting into your local janitor's union. It's a lot easier to become a lawyer than a janitor in a union. Look at reality--$35k is pretty good for a lawyer just starting, even in Manhattan.

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romothesavior
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:00 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:
jingosaur wrote:Your office's janitor is probably in a union and makes around $55k a year with health care. So you're actually worse off than the janitor. At $35k, you won't be able to afford Manhattan even with roommates and your QOL will be absolute crap. If it's your only offer, I guess you can take the job and just look for something else. Once bar results come back, your options may open up a little bit more.*

*I'm a 0L so I don't know much about legal employment, but I've worked in the city for a couple of years.


Then why are you even commenting?

Good luck getting into your local janitor's union. It's a lot easier to become a lawyer than a janitor in a union. Look at reality--$35k is pretty good for a lawyer just starting, even in Manhattan.

No. Pretty common and pretty good are not the same thing. 35k is a low starting salary for a lawyer, especially in Manhattan.

Gorki
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Gorki » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:34 pm

Maybe syria leads to massive allout war and we can all idle our time in intelligence posts until the end.

timbs4339
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:14 pm

30K is doable in MFH (or Queens/Bklyn) with roommates and IBR. If you're willing to live in a shitty walkup and sleep in a closet sized room (lay a mattress on a floor and put it up against the wall when you aren't asleep) you can get a room for as cheap as $900 in a hood' south of 125th west side or 96th east. Don't go out to eat and drink cheap beer at home.

But these jobs are really tailor made for outer borough kids who can live at home.

Source: Lived as broke student for 3 years in NYC. Am now not quite broke but close lawyer.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Scotusnerd » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:10 pm

Once you get that new job, out that jerkhole firm and make sure other people from your law school know about the shit they're pulling. I think that's the most effective defense against this sort of stuff.

That and leaving right before something important you're working on is due. They need to learn that paying people shit means you're treated like shit.

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newyorker88
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby newyorker88 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:15 am

Bronx Bum wrote:
jingosaur wrote:Your office's janitor is probably in a union and makes around $55k a year with health care. So you're actually worse off than the janitor. At $35k, you won't be able to afford Manhattan even with roommates and your QOL will be absolute crap. If it's your only offer, I guess you can take the job and just look for something else. Once bar results come back, your options may open up a little bit more.*

*I'm a 0L so I don't know much about legal employment, but I've worked in the city for a couple of years.


Then why are you even commenting?

Good luck getting into your local janitor's union. It's a lot easier to become a lawyer than a janitor in a union. Look at reality--$35k is pretty good for a lawyer just starting, even in Manhattan.


Wow, if 35k is pretty good for manhattan I'd hate to see what bad is.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Blessedassurance » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:18 am

why do people keep repeating the "if you really want to be a lawyer" bullshit? What does that even mean?




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