Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

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Moves like JAGger
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Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:11 pm

I just took the Bar. Been working for this firm for 2 years as a 2L/3L intern. Made 12/hr since 2012.

They're offering me 30k. Said they'd consider a promotion when I get my license. The law firm is in Manhattan. I asked for 40. We settled at 35. Am I doing this right?
Last edited by Moves like JAGger on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby RodneyRuxin » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:16 pm

35k in Manhattan sounds unsustainable. I'd imagine almost all of that will go to COL alone.

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Moves like JAGger
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:22 pm

I'm pretty sure the janitor who empties the office garbage cans makes 30k. I'm definitely sure he doesn't have 200k of student debt. C'est la vie, I guess.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby ManoftheHour » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:30 pm

No. I make more than that right now with a history degree and a math minor.

Would I spend 3 years and 200k in debt to exchange my job for a legal job that paid that much?

No.

Would I spend 3 years and nothing but lost salary to exchange my job for a legal job that pays that much?

Yes.

Edit: RC fail. I hate my job. It's not a good salary either way, but if you want to be a lawyer, and if you can get a huge raise later, it might be worth it. At least you're a lawyer and you're employed.

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Hufflepuffer
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Hufflepuffer » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:34 pm

Moves like JAGger wrote:I'm pretty sure the janitor who empties the office garbage cans makes 30k. I'm definitely sure he doesn't have 200k of student debt. C'est la vie, I guess.


35k for a law job in NYC with an Everest of debt hanging over your head seems... idk, crazy. I hope things get better for you. C'est la vie la plus mauvaise, j'imagine
Last edited by Hufflepuffer on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:38 pm

I made more than that as a law clerk for a Solo in Pittsburgh where COL is like a third of NYC. I truly don't think you can survive on that in NYC.

Idk, if you have nothing else maybe take it and apply somewhere else immediately, but you'd make more doing doc review while waiting.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:38 pm

Since you asked this question that you should know the answer to . . . no, it's not a good salary. The secretaries at my firm start at more than that. Granted, we're a large-ish firm, but still. I'm not saying that to be a dick, but there you go. Of course, if it's the choice between no job and that job, at least that job pays. But $35k in Manhatten???? Thats low paying for Detroit, let alone NYC. That is WAY below the lower peak on the bi-modal salary distribution curve for lawyers. Hopefully there are significant incentives or benefits. And you seem to be saying it's $35k until you get licensed - you should hammer out in advance what you'll get paid once you can, you know, sign a document as a lawyer. Good luck.

NYstate
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:42 pm

No it isn't a good salary. But I know people who would be glad to have it. If you can't get more salary, maybe see if they will reimburse you for bar related expenses.

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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:44 pm

I'm commissioning as an AF JAG in March, so it's not a life-or-death job. But I literally lol'd in her dead serious face when she said 30k.

I am grateful for the employment, but the pay is stupid low. The firm is not struggling. The partners are driven to the office in Bentlys.

I have an interview with U-Haul. They pay 35k.

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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:50 pm

NYstate wrote:No it isn't a good salary. But I know people who would be glad to have it. If you can't get more salary, maybe see if they will reimburse you for bar related expenses.


I'm not sure I could ask them to do that with a straight face.

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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:50 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Since you asked this question that you should know the answer to . . . no, it's not a good salary. The secretaries at my firm start at more than that. Granted, we're a large-ish firm, but still. I'm not saying that to be a dick, but there you go. Of course, if it's the choice between no job and that job, at least that job pays. But $35k in Manhatten???? Thats low paying for Detroit, let alone NYC. That is WAY below the lower peak on the bi-modal salary distribution curve for lawyers. Hopefully there are significant incentives or benefits. And you seem to be saying it's $35k until you get licensed - you should hammer out in advance what you'll get paid once you can, you know, sign a document as a lawyer. Good luck.


I think she wants to bump me to 40k when I get my license.

NYstate
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:52 pm

Moves like JAGger wrote:
NYstate wrote:No it isn't a good salary. But I know people who would be glad to have it. If you can't get more salary, maybe see if they will reimburse you for bar related expenses.


I'm not sure I could ask them to do that with a straight face.


Plenty of firms pay for these expenses.

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Royal
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Royal » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:54 pm

You can make $30k as a bartender in Manhattan, and you wouldn't need seven years of higher education. They should be embarrassed to offer that. Maybe you can negotiate benchmark bonuses based on hours billed or awards from contingency cases you handle. In other words, if the firm handles personal injury, maybe you can negotiate $35k base plus 10% of any contingency fees recovered on cases you work on.
Last edited by Royal on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby blsingindisguise » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:54 pm

Moves like JAGger wrote:I just took the Bar. Been working for this firm for 2 years as a 2L/3L intern. Made 12/hr since 2012.

They're offering me 30k. Said they'd consider a promotion when I get my license. The law firm is in Manhattan. I asked for 40. We settled at 35. Am I doing this right?


It's pretty good for a guy with only 19 posts.

But assuming for the sake of boredom that you're serious, what kind of firm are we talking about here? It's pretty low for ANYTHING in Manhattan I'd say, but it's all relative to your debt, your credentials and your options. Is working at this place going to do anything substantial for your career? I'd probably turn it down and keep looking, but I don't know your details.

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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:56 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
Moves like JAGger wrote:I just took the Bar. Been working for this firm for 2 years as a 2L/3L intern. Made 12/hr since 2012.

They're offering me 30k. Said they'd consider a promotion when I get my license. The law firm is in Manhattan. I asked for 40. We settled at 35. Am I doing this right?


It's pretty good for a guy with only 19 posts.

But assuming for the sake of boredom that you're serious, what kind of firm are we talking about here? It's pretty low for ANYTHING in Manhattan I'd say, but it's all relative to your debt, your credentials and your options. Is working at this place going to do anything substantial for your career? I'd probably turn it down and keep looking, but I don't know your details.



20 posts, actually.


edit: 21
Last edited by Moves like JAGger on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Moves like JAGger
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:57 pm

PI/Asbestos/Med Mal/Pharma etc....


30 attorneys, maybe

09042014
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:57 pm

See if they'll throw in a cot on the floor of your cubical.

09042014
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:58 pm

Take the job and never stop looking to move to a better firm.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Bronx Bum » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:15 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
Moves like JAGger wrote:I just took the Bar. Been working for this firm for 2 years as a 2L/3L intern. Made 12/hr since 2012.

They're offering me 30k. Said they'd consider a promotion when I get my license. The law firm is in Manhattan. I asked for 40. We settled at 35. Am I doing this right?


It's pretty good for a guy with only 19 posts.

But assuming for the sake of boredom that you're serious, what kind of firm are we talking about here? It's pretty low for ANYTHING in Manhattan I'd say, but it's all relative to your debt, your credentials and your options. Is working at this place going to do anything substantial for your career? I'd probably turn it down and keep looking, but I don't know your details.



I don't think this is an auto-flame thread. I work at a firm in manhattan that wants to start me at $16 an hour with no benefits or anything. He put up an ad for attorney at $12 an hour and got 20 resumes in one day within posting it. I was T30 (well when I started school) and top 25%. But still....I know a dude in manhattan who gives his associates $50k to start and everyone thinks it's a great opportunity.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:17 pm

If they know you're leaving for the air force come March - that might explain the low-balling.

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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:33 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:If they know you're leaving for the air force come March - that might explain the low-balling.



Good point. As far as I know they don't ... and the 30k figure is apparently typical.

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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:01 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
Moves like JAGger wrote:I just took the Bar. Been working for this firm for 2 years as a 2L/3L intern. Made 12/hr since 2012.

They're offering me 30k. Said they'd consider a promotion when I get my license. The law firm is in Manhattan. I asked for 40. We settled at 35. Am I doing this right?


It's pretty good for a guy with only 19 posts.

But assuming for the sake of boredom that you're serious, what kind of firm are we talking about here? It's pretty low for ANYTHING in Manhattan I'd say, but it's all relative to your debt, your credentials and your options. Is working at this place going to do anything substantial for your career? I'd probably turn it down and keep looking, but I don't know your details.



I don't think this is an auto-flame thread. I work at a firm in manhattan that wants to start me at $16 an hour with no benefits or anything. He put up an ad for attorney at $12 an hour and got 20 resumes in one day within posting it. I was T30 (well when I started school) and top 25%. But still....I know a dude in manhattan who gives his associates $50k to start and everyone thinks it's a great opportunity.



This is an excellent point not considered enough by 0Ls. Most of them only see the $160,000 salary.

The oversupply of lawyers means that firms can get solid people at very low salaries. I never thought this post was a joke. I always harp on this but there is something new associates need to remember- the partners can do this work without you. You aren't bringing knowledge or expertise they don't have. They are teaching you. You aren't some amazing asset to them. Mostly they just need reasonably smart and diligent people.

The sad part is that I know housekeepers and nannies in Manhattan that make more than this. Even babysitters make more than this an hour.

Gorki
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Gorki » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:03 pm

Moves like JAGger wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:If they know you're leaving for the air force come March - that might explain the low-balling.



Good point. As far as I know they don't ... and the 30k figure is apparently typical.


Sadly it is. TLS is in a diff league from shitlaw wages, and most TLS users never encounter such sliminess (thankfully for them), but 30k is actually typical for a low tier operation.

To everyone saying this must be a flame, plz appreciate how fortunate you all are to be sitting on a 160g a year salary.

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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Moves like JAGger » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:07 pm

NYstate wrote:the partners can do this work without you. You aren't bringing knowledge or expertise they don't have. They are teaching you. You aren't some amazing asset to them. Mostly they just need reasonably smart and diligent people.

The sad part is that I know housekeepers and nannies in Manhattan that make more than this. Even babysitters make more than this an hour.


I'd like to see four partners handle 10,000 lung cancer cases. I really would. The mere thought gives me great satisfaction.

I've worked for the firm for two years. I've talked to a partner maybe three times. Month long absences are not uncommon, nor is "working from home." Everything I've learned (which is admittedly not a lot) I learned from associates.

This firm is probably not typical.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: Is 30k a good salary for a law grad?

Postby Bronx Bum » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:08 pm

Gorki wrote:
Moves like JAGger wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:If they know you're leaving for the air force come March - that might explain the low-balling.



Good point. As far as I know they don't ... and the 30k figure is apparently typical.


Sadly it is. TLS is in a diff league from shitlaw wages, and most TLS users never encounter such sliminess (thankfully for them), but 30k is actually typical for a low tier operation.

To everyone saying this must be a flame, plz appreciate how fortunate you all are to be sitting on a 160g a year salary.


TCR. I laugh when I think about $160k. That's so much money. You can double my salary and I'm still $100k away LOL. And I didn't even do THAT bad in school. I went to a classic "trap" school I guess. I have a lot of debt and I'm just going to IBR and pray.




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