MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

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5ky
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby 5ky » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:08 pm

Jacques_Bentley wrote:
5ky wrote:
Jacques_Bentley wrote:
This year's MBE was significantly more difficult than the ones administered in the recent past. I practiced on actual past released MBE's and easily scored around 90% correct, but on this exam I felt like I got half of them wrong. The questions were just much, much trickier. I predict that the national average score will be sharply reduced this year. The curve is our friend here, however. We're not trying to reach the top 25%; we just need to avoid the bottom 25%. (Or thereabouts.)

One of the few useful things a Barbri lecturer said to us (paraphrasing): When you are panicking about the bar, STOP for a moment, and think about all of the lawyers you know. If they passed the bar, so can/did you.


this is objectively untrue, duder.

also, released MBE questions aren't like the LSAT, they don't release all of their questions or even a representative set.


The ones I looked at were described to me as "full actual MBEs." In retrospect, it is quite possible that in the stress of bar study I was misinformed about this (EDIT: I was) and/or took this too uncritically. If so, then thank you for the clarification. However, I can say that there were several hundreds of questions, and that I found them to be noticeably easier than the ones on this year's MBE. I suppose they may have deliberately selected only the easiest questions and assembled them into a deceptively easy exam, but I don't see why they would do this. Even if they were the easy questions, they were still much easier than this year's "easy" questions. The nature and design of the questions themselves just seemed much more straightforward.

So, I will stand by my prediction that this year's national average *raw* score will be substantially lower than in the recent past. Feel free to bring up this post in a few months. If I am wrong (and I hope I am!), I will happily admit defeat.

EDIT: I just saw this relevant thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=213870

It seems that NCBE claims that these sets of questions are fairly representative -- "The material presented in the MBE-OPE is very similar in content representation and format to the Multistate Bar Examination (MBE), and is intended to familiarize candidates with MBE-style questions". But it also appears that there is some debate among TLSers as to whether this is accurate. To the extent that it is accurate, however, there can be little question that this year's exam was far more difficult.


that says absolutely nothing about difficulty, just content and style of question. everyone agrees the MBE questions were more difficult than the released Qs, but people say that every single year (because the released questions are, in fact, easier)

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Joan Hollaway
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby Joan Hollaway » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:34 pm

BaiAilian2013 wrote:1) When you ask for help, you shouldn't be a dick to those who are mildly rude while helping you, especially when they are reputable posters.

2) From your description of the essay day, the MBE, and your performance on the Barbri practice questions, it really sounds like you passed.

3) FWIW, I also was mentally shaken by bar prep in a way that I never was by school (but I'm pretty sure I passed the actual exam). I think it's because the stakes are so high. Yeah, most firms will let you take it again, but you have to study for February WHILE working, so that's still a pretty scary prospect - much worse than getting a B in some class. So, I don't think the fact that this type of freakout is rare for you is particularly persuasive evidence, because the bar is sort of a unique experience IMO. Some people find it easier than school because the material is easier, but other people, myself included, find it a lot scarier.


Ditto, I never really freaked out in law school but the last two weeks before the bar were panic attack after panic attack and lots of crying. July was def the worst month of my life and I was shaking the entire time I took the MBE. I also refused to talk to any friends or family who hadn't taken the bar cause they "didn't understand what I was going through" and because I was sick of hearing "you've always been smart you'll be fine."
OP all my friends were freaking out/crying after the MBE, statistically most of us will pass so you just need to chill till November because there is nothing you can do now by worrying about it. Spend time with friends, explore the city, drink, read for pleasure, work out, watch tv, etc etc. Enjoy your last couple of months before biglaw takes over your life.

AnxiousMVPBer
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby AnxiousMVPBer » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:00 pm

Thanks all for your constructive thoughts. I know I'm not the only one feeling like this, so it's definitely helpful to have others post similar experiences or thoughts. Appreciate it.

As to the comments below:

vanwinkle wrote:Also, being a dick to the people responding won't exactly encourage better responses.


BaiAilian2013 wrote:1) When you ask for help, you shouldn't be a dick to those who are mildly rude while helping you, especially when they are reputable posters


Seriously? Is this some form of TLS willful blindness? I'm attacked and you want me to...be grateful to those who attack? Get real. Calling me a "blubbering pussy" or ranting about how I should "go die" and get a life coach rather than posting on an on-topic board, are hardly "mildly rude." These may be comments from your little TLS buddies, but they were most certainly the instigating "dicks" here.

09042014
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby 09042014 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:15 pm

I was being a dick, he can respond in kind.

AnxiousMVPBer
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby AnxiousMVPBer » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:19 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I was being a dick, he can respond in kind.


And a tip of the hat to you.

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vanwinkle
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I was being a dick, he can respond in kind.

Wasn't saying he couldn't, just suggesting it wouldn't help him.

Jacques_Bentley
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby Jacques_Bentley » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:04 pm

5ky wrote:that says absolutely nothing about difficulty, just content and style of question. everyone agrees the MBE questions were more difficult than the released Qs, but people say that every single year (because the released questions are, in fact, easier)


As I said (I made the second edit before I read your reply), the meaning of the word "content" is ambiguous in this context. It plausibly could be interpreted to entail not only substantive areas of law but also relative difficulty levels. I was certainly given the impression that the sets of questions were designed to be a fair approximation of the actual MBE. I know many others were under the same impression. The language used to describe the practice exams may not have constituted outright lying, but it was misleading, IMHO. But I won't beat a dead horse any longer.

BeenDidThat
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby BeenDidThat » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:13 am

AnxiousMVPBer wrote:
NYstate wrote:Wait, you posted asking for help and now you are attacking people?

Fwiw: don't compare the grading of essays to law school detail. You can get points even if you don't get every element. The grading is much easier.

If you did well on the multi-state you should be fine.

Worse case, if you fail, you can retake. My firm allows one fail and I think most firms do the same.


Did you read the above exchanges? The attacks came to me, amusing as they were. In any case, I appreciate your constructive thoughts on this. Here's hoping Worst Case doesn't materialize, but you're right, I don't think my firm has a one-shot and done policy.


Those weren't attacks, you blubbering pussy. You're overly defensive because you know how gaping you are.

More "constructively," because you obviously haven't toughened up your skin in the real world, but have instead been handled like a weakling newborn from day one to day 8,000: your pedigree coupled with the thoughts you are having are normal, as is bar passage for the vast majority of people in your position. Chill.

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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby AnxiousMVPBer » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:16 pm

BeenDidThat wrote:Those weren't attacks, you blubbering pussy. You're overly defensive because you know how gaping you are.

More "constructively," because you obviously haven't toughened up your skin in the real world, but have instead been handled like a weakling newborn from day one to day 8,000: your pedigree coupled with the thoughts you are having are normal, as is bar passage for the vast majority of people in your position. Chill.


Hahhah the inadvertent humor in this thread has been as helpful as the actual advice. Thanks for both!

See, I'm comfortable with expressing anxiety, and it's one of the many underlying purposes of a forum like this. That's the difference between most of the "constructive" people on these boards and trolls like you, who are forever chained to their inadequacies. (You're very welcome for your afternoon feeding BTW.)

Having plenty of experience in the "real world," here's a tip: tough skin doesn't change the nature of an attack, but rather how one responds to it. The above were definitely attacks, and I responded proportionally. Done deal.

And while we're speaking of the "real world" that you're so clearly acclimated to, just a reminder that TLS/XOXO fanboy lingo like "gaping" has little cache outside of whatever sad room you're posting from. Though, to be fair, in the "real world" (that's the Big Room outside your door), I'm guessing even if you tried to tell someone how "gaping" they were at, say, a crowded bar, it might go over only because I'm guessing you generally mutter inaudibly under your breath while awkwardly shuffling to move out of people's way. Yes...I can see you more clearly now, a far sadder and less likeable version of Milton from Office Space developing in my mind.

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forza
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby forza » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:46 pm

AnxiousMVPBer wrote:Hahhah the inadvertent humor in this thread has been as helpful as the actual advice. Thanks for both!

See, I'm comfortable with expressing anxiety, and it's one of the many underlying purposes of a forum like this. That's the difference between most of the "constructive" people on these boards and trolls like you, who are forever chained to their inadequacies. (You're very welcome for your afternoon feeding BTW.)

Having plenty of experience in the "real world," here's a tip: tough skin doesn't change the nature of an attack, but rather how one responds to it. The above were definitely attacks, and I responded proportionally. Done deal.

And while we're speaking of the "real world" that you're so clearly acclimated to, just a reminder that TLS/XOXO fanboy lingo like "gaping" has little cache outside of whatever sad room you're posting from. Though, to be fair, in the "real world" (that's the Big Room outside your door), I'm guessing even if you tried to tell someone how "gaping" they were at, say, a crowded bar, it might go over only because I'm guessing you generally mutter inaudibly under your breath while awkwardly shuffling to move out of people's way. Yes...I can see you more clearly now, a far sadder and less likeable version of Milton from Office Space developing in my mind.


You take the internet pretty seriously, breh.

09042014
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby 09042014 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:08 pm

Now we guess which school this MVPBER went to. Not Penn since they'd say T7. Maybe boat because they included B.

AnxiousMVPBer
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby AnxiousMVPBer » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:58 pm

forza wrote:You take the internet pretty seriously, breh.


Says the guy with 8,000 posts.

AnxiousMVPBer
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby AnxiousMVPBer » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:59 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Now we guess which school this MVPBER went to. Not Penn since they'd say T7. Maybe boat because they included B.


Definitely went to Boat.

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forza
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby forza » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:34 am

AnxiousMVPBer wrote:
forza wrote:You take the internet pretty seriously, breh.


Says the guy with 8,000 posts.


QED

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Old Gregg
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:59 am

And while we're speaking of the "real world" that you're so clearly acclimated to, just a reminder that TLS/XOXO fanboy lingo like "gaping" has little cache outside of whatever sad room you're posting from. Though, to be fair, in the "real world" (that's the Big Room outside your door), I'm guessing even if you tried to tell someone how "gaping" they were at, say, a crowded bar, it might go over only because I'm guessing you generally mutter inaudibly under your breath while awkwardly shuffling to move out of people's way. Yes...I can see you more clearly now, a far sadder and less likeable version of Milton from Office Space developing in my mind.


Would've been more accurate if you made it sound like bro was in a basement.

Regarding my post above, yes, firms still react very disfavorably when you fail the bar, even in spite of official, stated policy. It doesn't seem like that now, when you haven't learned that you passed, but watch when you do pass. Partners will come up to you and talk to you about "that guy a few years ago who didn't pass," and how "that guy is no longer here," with the implication that they were pushed out because of it. You will hear associates and partners make fun of that one dude who didn't pass a few years ago, and then you will thank god that you aren't that person this year because you will know how shitty it would have been to fail.

Aside from all that, regarding your feelings of inadequacy regarding having failed the bar, 9 out of 10 of the people I spoke to coming out of that exam felt that they failed it and that it was super hard. This is verifiable by looking at the threads regarding the bar, and how shitty people seem to be feeling in them. These feelings are normal.

I had a whole post about how you're a hypocrite by lashing out at the posters in this forum, but don't really feel like starting an argument and proving my point. Happy to take that conversation to PM if you want.

AnxiousMVPBer
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby AnxiousMVPBer » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:18 pm

forza wrote:
AnxiousMVPBer wrote:
forza wrote:You take the internet pretty seriously, breh.


Says the guy with 8,000 posts.


QED


Think you need to brush up on your Latin, big guy.

But perhaps you're right. In fact, I just did a rough estimate, and it seems that if I post once a day for the next twenty-two years, I too can reach 8,000 posts and thereby show Teh Internets just how unserious I am about them.

Furthermore, should I attempt this Colossal Feat of Unseriousness, I will take a page from your playbook and strike out on post 1 of 8,000 during the prime hours of a weekend night, just so the Internet is on notice of how truly unserious I am.

Than again, what do I know, I'm a guy who likely failed the bar.

AnxiousMVPBer
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby AnxiousMVPBer » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:40 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:...
Regarding my post above, yes, firms still react very disfavorably when you fail the bar, even in spite of official, stated policy. It doesn't seem like that now, when you haven't learned that you passed, but watch when you do pass. Partners will come up to you and talk to you about "that guy a few years ago who didn't pass," and how "that guy is no longer here," with the implication that they were pushed out because of it. You will hear associates and partners make fun of that one dude who didn't pass a few years ago, and then you will thank god that you aren't that person this year because you will know how shitty it would have been to fail.

Aside from all that, regarding your feelings of inadequacy regarding having failed the bar, 9 out of 10 of the people I spoke to coming out of that exam felt that they failed it and that it was super hard. This is verifiable by looking at the threads regarding the bar, and how shitty people seem to be feeling in them. These feelings are normal.

I had a whole post about how you're a hypocrite by lashing out at the posters in this forum, but don't really feel like starting an argument and proving my point. Happy to take that conversation to PM if you want.


As with everyone who posted advice here, I appreciate your take on the situation. Truly. And yes, I think it's the possibility of an unspoken stigma that is most worrisome to myself and those I've spoken with. No doubt if a stigma actually exists it will, like most stigmas discussed on TLS, matter far less if you're doing solid work at a solid firm. I've read through a number of discussions, some arguing that there is no stigma aside from some mild ribbing as long as you pass the second time, and others that swear failing the bar is an indelible black mark/red flag. I imagine it's somewhere in between depending on the personality of the firm you're at, but this is hard to gauge from the outside.

As to me being hypocritical, I don't agree. You claim that I'm "lashing out" at posters when in fact it's more accurate to say that I'm lashing "back at" those posters who were dicks to me first. That's all. Simple. There's nothing more to it. Now, had I attacked a poster who gave me constructive advice, perhaps by ridiculing or belittling that advice, that would be "lashing out" and most certainly hypocritical. This is not what I've done.

Also, while I appreciate your offer to PM you for an explanation, this seems somewhat disingenuous. If it's not, I apologize. If you simply didn't want to waste time articulating your point, that's certainly understandable. However, that's not how you framed it. Instead, you seem to be saying that I can PM you so that you can privately win an argument that you've already declared yourself the victor of. If it's not about wasting your time, then post your take on my hypocrisy and if it's convincing I have no problem saying so, just as I'll have no problem calling you out if it's not.

That said, if there is truly some reason you can only call me out privately, then PM me, and I'll have no trouble owning up to it.

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forza
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Re: MVPBer VERY anxious about NY Bar Exam Results

Postby forza » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:10 pm

AnxiousMVPBer wrote:
forza wrote:
AnxiousMVPBer wrote:
forza wrote:You take the internet pretty seriously, breh.


Says the guy with 8,000 posts.


QED


Think you need to brush up on your Latin, big guy.

But perhaps you're right. In fact, I just did a rough estimate, and it seems that if I post once a day for the next twenty-two years, I too can reach 8,000 posts and thereby show Teh Internets just how unserious I am about them.

Furthermore, should I attempt this Colossal Feat of Unseriousness, I will take a page from your playbook and strike out on post 1 of 8,000 during the prime hours of a weekend night, just so the Internet is on notice of how truly unserious I am.

Than again, what do I know, I'm a guy who likely failed the bar.


QED




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