California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

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Old Gregg
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:28 pm

vacations wrote:For those who took BarBri, did you guys power through all the essays given in the big orange book?

That was my goal this summer and I came close to most of the subjects but at this point....i'm just throwing my hands up and just spending the next two days doing MBEs and memorizing outlines. Anybody else on same boat?


I'm going through my outlines and finding spots that I have iffy knowledge on and then am putting them on one sheet. I absorb knowledge through the review and typing and won't have to go over 50 pages to review shit the night before/morning of.

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Emma.
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Emma. » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:52 pm

PR question: CA says no retaining liens... But are they OK for the ABA (keeping client files at the end of representation until the client has paid)?

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:09 pm

Emma. wrote:PR question: CA says no retaining liens... But are they OK for the ABA (keeping client files at the end of representation until the client has paid)?


Right. CA lawyers cannot hold client files hostage -- even if client completely fails to pay, they get to have all of their files.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:10 pm

Wills Q: anyone care to explain to me, in plain language, what a pour-over will is? I'm reading the words on the page, but having trouble understanding what the point is, and/or when it might arise.

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Mroberts3
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Mroberts3 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:12 pm

I don't understand what is going on in my brain. I'm stressed out...but only because I haven't been stressed. I'm certain I will pass, but this makes me fear failing even more. WUT IS THE BAR DOING TO ME?!?

Anyone else feel the same...please?

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Old Gregg
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:23 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:Wills Q: anyone care to explain to me, in plain language, what a pour-over will is? I'm reading the words on the page, but having trouble understanding what the point is, and/or when it might arise.


Literally it's when a will devises to a trust. Only valid in three ways: incorporation by reference, fact of independent legal significance, UTATA.

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Old Gregg
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:31 pm

Anyone do the last community property essay? Wife maintains property for the sale of husband's inheritance, but model answer says property is CP because wife labored. Why isn't anti-Lucas implicated here? Property in H's name, traceable and wife can be reimbursed for DIP. Is model answer just old law?

(Excuse typos am writing this while walking)

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Torts Illustrated » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:38 pm

Emma. wrote:
Torts Illustrated wrote:California evidence question:

In a criminal case in California, a defendant can introduce evidence of the victim's bad character using opinion, reputation, AND specific instances of conduct. (So, if I'm charged with homicide and claiming self-defense, I can introduce evidence showing that the victim kicked puppies in order to show that he was a violent guy.)

After this happens, the prosecution can introduce negative character evidence about the defendant. Can the prosecution's evidence be in the form of specific instances of conduct? Or only opinion and reputation?

In the same vein, if a defendant wants to introduce evidence of his own character as inconsistent with the crime charged, can that be in the form of specific instances of conduct? Or just opinion/reputation?


My understanding is that specific instances of conduct are NEVER admissible to prove that the defendant acted in conformance with that conduct, whether that evidence is offered by the defendant or by the prosecutor.


That makes sense. Thanks!

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:42 pm

Not sure if this has been covered, but what do we HAVE to bring to test day on Tuesday?

1. Admittance Ticket
2. Laptop/Power Chord
3. Photo ID (Govt Issued)
4. Non-Mechanical Pencils/Markers

Anything else?

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Old Gregg
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:45 pm

Can we bring water/snacks?

huckabees
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby huckabees » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:48 pm

DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Not sure if this has been covered, but what do we HAVE to bring to test day on Tuesday?

1. Admittance Ticket
2. Laptop/Power Chord
3. Photo ID (Govt Issued)
4. Non-Mechanical Pencils/Markers

Anything else?


We can't use mechanical pencils? I thought any #2 pencil was OK

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Emma.
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Emma. » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:48 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:Anyone do the last community property essay? Wife maintains property for the sale of husband's inheritance, but model answer says property is CP because wife labored. Why isn't anti-Lucas implicated here? Property in H's name, traceable and wife can be reimbursed for DIP. Is model answer just old law?

(Excuse typos am writing this while walking)


Just glanced at it, but IIRC Lucas/anti-Lucas ONLY apply where title to property is taken in joint and equal form, and then one spouse expends SP on improvements. In that essay, the house was given directly to H (no joint and separate form). But what W is arguing not that it is just HER labor that makes the house CP. She would argue that the house, though given as a testamentary gift, was actually compensation for both H and W's labor during the marriage, both of which are CP so the house should be CP. Does that make sense?

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:49 pm

huckabees wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Not sure if this has been covered, but what do we HAVE to bring to test day on Tuesday?

1. Admittance Ticket
2. Laptop/Power Chord
3. Photo ID (Govt Issued)
4. Non-Mechanical Pencils/Markers

Anything else?


We can't use mechanical pencils? I thought any #2 pencil was OK


Hmmm, I thought only non-mechanical but I could def be wrong. Def dont think we can bring snacks

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Old Gregg
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:57 pm

Emma. wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:Anyone do the last community property essay? Wife maintains property for the sale of husband's inheritance, but model answer says property is CP because wife labored. Why isn't anti-Lucas implicated here? Property in H's name, traceable and wife can be reimbursed for DIP. Is model answer just old law?

(Excuse typos am writing this while walking)


Just glanced at it, but IIRC Lucas/anti-Lucas ONLY apply where title to property is taken in joint and equal form, and then one spouse expends SP on improvements. In that essay, the house was given directly to H (no joint and separate form). But what W is arguing not that it is just HER labor that makes the house CP. She would argue that the house, though given as a testamentary gift, was actually compensation for both H and W's labor during the marriage, both of which are CP so the house should be CP. Does that make sense?


Makes sense, but I thought property taken under one persons name alone meant that it was his property on divorce, and that you use tracing to make sure it's SP. doesn't become CP unless separate agreement or explicit in deed, and spouse entitled to DIP?

It's funny because I argued that and according to the model answer was completely wrong.

Torts Illustrated
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Torts Illustrated » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:02 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:I thought property taken under one persons name alone meant that it was his property on divorce, and that you use tracing to make sure it's SP. doesn't become CP unless separate agreement or explicit in deed, and spouse entitled to DIP?


I didn't do this essay, so I don't know if this relevant, but there's one exception to this: If the property is titled in the name of just one spouse, but that spouse is the person who acquired the property (and so is the spouse who got to decide whose name(s) went on the title), then the title is regarded as self-serving and the special presumption of title doesn't apply.

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Emma.
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Emma. » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:05 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Emma. wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:Anyone do the last community property essay? Wife maintains property for the sale of husband's inheritance, but model answer says property is CP because wife labored. Why isn't anti-Lucas implicated here? Property in H's name, traceable and wife can be reimbursed for DIP. Is model answer just old law?

(Excuse typos am writing this while walking)


Just glanced at it, but IIRC Lucas/anti-Lucas ONLY apply where title to property is taken in joint and equal form, and then one spouse expends SP on improvements. In that essay, the house was given directly to H (no joint and separate form). But what W is arguing not that it is just HER labor that makes the house CP. She would argue that the house, though given as a testamentary gift, was actually compensation for both H and W's labor during the marriage, both of which are CP so the house should be CP. Does that make sense?


Makes sense, but I thought property taken under one persons name alone meant that it was his property on divorce, and that you use tracing to make sure it's SP. doesn't become CP unless separate agreement or explicit in deed, and spouse entitled to DIP?

It's funny because I argued that and according to the model answer was completely wrong.


The presumption for any inherited property is that it is SP, so that would be the norm. But W is arguing that this isn't regular inheritance, it is really compensation for labor. Property taken in one spouse's name could be evidence that the property was intended to be SP even if acquired with CP (it could be that the other spouse was making a gift of the CP to the other spouse) but probably title alone wouldn't be enough to be conclusive. You'd need evidence that W intended the house be SP.

"CP presumption may be overcome by showing [title in a form other than CP. However...] Without the knowledge and consent of both spouses, the community property presumption is not overcome. The form of title is immaterial; the property is presumed to be CP"
Last edited by Emma. on Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ben bernanke
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby ben bernanke » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:06 pm

huckabees wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Not sure if this has been covered, but what do we HAVE to bring to test day on Tuesday?

1. Admittance Ticket
2. Laptop/Power Chord
3. Photo ID (Govt Issued)
4. Non-Mechanical Pencils/Markers

Anything else?


We can't use mechanical pencils? I thought any #2 pencil was OK


Are you sure we need pencils Tuesday (as opposed to pens)? I thought we only needed them for MBE Wednesday

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Torts Illustrated » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:08 pm

Torts Illustrated wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:I thought property taken under one persons name alone meant that it was his property on divorce, and that you use tracing to make sure it's SP. doesn't become CP unless separate agreement or explicit in deed, and spouse entitled to DIP?


I didn't do this essay, so I don't know if this relevant, but there's one exception to this: If the property is titled in the name of just one spouse, but that spouse is the person who acquired the property (and so is the spouse who got to decide whose name(s) went on the title), then the title is regarded as self-serving and the special presumption of title doesn't apply.


Never mind: I just realized your fact pattern was about divorce (not death), so the special presumption of title doesn't apply anyway. Sorry.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Emma. » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:15 pm

Torts Illustrated wrote:
Torts Illustrated wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:I thought property taken under one persons name alone meant that it was his property on divorce, and that you use tracing to make sure it's SP. doesn't become CP unless separate agreement or explicit in deed, and spouse entitled to DIP?


I didn't do this essay, so I don't know if this relevant, but there's one exception to this: If the property is titled in the name of just one spouse, but that spouse is the person who acquired the property (and so is the spouse who got to decide whose name(s) went on the title), then the title is regarded as self-serving and the special presumption of title doesn't apply.


Never mind: I just realized your fact pattern was about divorce (not death), so the special presumption of title doesn't apply anyway. Sorry.


WTF is this "special presumption of title?" I've never heard of it. 2 line explanation plz???

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby huckabees » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:21 pm

ben bernanke wrote:
huckabees wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Not sure if this has been covered, but what do we HAVE to bring to test day on Tuesday?

1. Admittance Ticket
2. Laptop/Power Chord
3. Photo ID (Govt Issued)
4. Non-Mechanical Pencils/Markers

Anything else?


We can't use mechanical pencils? I thought any #2 pencil was OK


Are you sure we need pencils Tuesday (as opposed to pens)? I thought we only needed them for MBE Wednesday


Whoops... missed the Tues part.

I was inquiring whether mechanical pencils are allowed on MBE day.

huckabees
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby huckabees » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:22 pm

Emma. wrote:
Torts Illustrated wrote:
Torts Illustrated wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:I thought property taken under one persons name alone meant that it was his property on divorce, and that you use tracing to make sure it's SP. doesn't become CP unless separate agreement or explicit in deed, and spouse entitled to DIP?


I didn't do this essay, so I don't know if this relevant, but there's one exception to this: If the property is titled in the name of just one spouse, but that spouse is the person who acquired the property (and so is the spouse who got to decide whose name(s) went on the title), then the title is regarded as self-serving and the special presumption of title doesn't apply.


Never mind: I just realized your fact pattern was about divorce (not death), so the special presumption of title doesn't apply anyway. Sorry.


WTF is this "special presumption of title?" I've never heard of it. 2 line explanation plz???


There's only the Married Woman's Special Presumption that I know of, and that only applies to women pre-1975 where H took title in her name only or partially her name, but not specifying that they were a married couple. Then there's a presumption that it was a gift to W, and H can rebut that presumption (but perhaps not against BFPs??)

Title in one spouse's name only, without the other spouse's approval, is not sufficient to change the character from CP to SP.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:51 pm

Mroberts3 wrote:I don't understand what is going on in my brain. I'm stressed out...but only because I haven't been stressed. I'm certain I will pass, but this makes me fear failing even more. WUT IS THE BAR DOING TO ME?!?

Anyone else feel the same...please?


Dude you gotta relax. Everyone on this thread is capable of passing this exam by a substantial margin. The ones that do not will probably stress themselves out, freak out, and get overly nervous. Sure, we are all a bit nervous and giddy, which is a good thing. But realize, you are doing the exact same thing during the Bar that you have been doing for the past two months and that is writing out IRAC'd essays and answering MBE questions. I've read that people don't talk to anyone the days before the exam. I think that is unbelievably stupid. Talk to your friends, family, etc and be normal. Don't sit in a dark room just waiting until Tuesday morning bc then you will psyche yourself out. And this is coming from someone who habitually psyches himself out. The first day will be the toughest to stay calm bc...well, its the first day. ANd in that, maybe the first ten minutes. But after those first 10 minutes, after you realize that this test is essentailly no different than what you've been practicing, you'll be running through these essays like its practice.

HTH.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Torts Illustrated » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:29 pm

Emma. wrote:
Torts Illustrated wrote:
Torts Illustrated wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:I thought property taken under one persons name alone meant that it was his property on divorce, and that you use tracing to make sure it's SP. doesn't become CP unless separate agreement or explicit in deed, and spouse entitled to DIP?


I didn't do this essay, so I don't know if this relevant, but there's one exception to this: If the property is titled in the name of just one spouse, but that spouse is the person who acquired the property (and so is the spouse who got to decide whose name(s) went on the title), then the title is regarded as self-serving and the special presumption of title doesn't apply.


Never mind: I just realized your fact pattern was about divorce (not death), so the special presumption of title doesn't apply anyway. Sorry.


WTF is this "special presumption of title?" I've never heard of it. 2 line explanation plz???


As I understand it, there are 5 presumptions that may apply in a community property question:

Two general presumptions, which can be rebutted by a preponderance of the evidence:

1. The general community property presumption: property acquired during marriage, if not gift/inheritance, is community property.

2. The general separate property presumption: property acquired before marriage or after death/divorce/separate and apart is separate property.


Three special presumptions, which can be rebutted only by clear and convincing evidence:

1. The special title presumption: property is presumed to belong to the party or parties on the title. (So property where both spouses are on the title is community property; property where only one spouse is on the title is that spouse's separate property.) This applies only at death.

2. The special community property presumption: jointly held property is community property. This applies only at divorce.

3. The married woman's special presumption: Property acquired before 1975, titled in the woman's name without her husband, is presumed her separate property.

bree
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby bree » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:47 pm

huckabees wrote:
ben bernanke wrote:
huckabees wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Not sure if this has been covered, but what do we HAVE to bring to test day on Tuesday?

1. Admittance Ticket
2. Laptop/Power Chord
3. Photo ID (Govt Issued)
4. Non-Mechanical Pencils/Markers

Anything else?


We can't use mechanical pencils? I thought any #2 pencil was OK


Are you sure we need pencils Tuesday (as opposed to pens)? I thought we only needed them for MBE Wednesday


Whoops... missed the Tues part.

I was inquiring whether mechanical pencils are allowed on MBE day.


Mechanical Pencils are fine.

SEE: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/Examinations/EXAMADMINPOLICIES_R.pdf
There's nothing in there that distinguishes between mechanical and non-mechanical.

Just make sure that the pencil works for SCANTRON (usually "HB" lead for mechanical pencils). Before people panic over whether they have "HB" lead or not, remember that "HB" is standard, so most likely if you have a mechanical pencil, it has "HB" lead.

One weird thing though: no erasers aside from ones that are on pencils/pens

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Entellus » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:13 pm

I'm doing Themis and I consistently score around 75% on the MBE questions sets. Does anyone know roughly what I should expect to score on the actual MBE, and more importantly, how much leeway does this give me when I inevitably screw up on the essays?




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