California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

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Kretzy
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Kretzy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:23 am

AntiHuman wrote:I'm in a huge dilemma...I've only done 120-150 MBE questions per MBE subject and i've only outlined 2-3 PT's and read through another 2 PT's. I have done extensive black letter law review on the MBE subjects(but I have barely fully written out any MBE essays...i've only done maybe 6-8 practice essays total and JUST read informally through about 30 MBE essays to get an idea on format)

The real catch:I've done absolutely NOTHING for the non-mbe CA subjects except watch the lectures. I have done absolutely no practice essays. For the remaining days left I plan to do the following:

1. 200 MBE questions as a final review and to get an idea of how I'll do on the actual test
2. simulate 1 PT fully and outline 2 more PT's
3. What non mbe CA subjects should I focus on in the last 4 days(plan to study thurs,fri,sat,sun, mon)...I really didnt wanna study substantive law on sunday/monday, but im screwed and need to get exposed to as many non mbe subjects as possible. Which subjects should I review and how should I review them with the barbri materials in the fastest and most efficient way possible.


I'd probably mostly punt Civ Pro and Agency/Partnerships. Read the outlines really quickly, learn the 10 buzzwords and 2-3 tests for A/P and some jx review for Civ Pro. I'd probably do a decent focus on wills/trusts/community property, and maybe a quick couple of hours on the CA Evidence distinctions. Then I'd hammer the Professional Responsibility rules.

*Full disclosure: This is because I think there's a very strong chance of some wills/trusts question, and almost certainly a PR question (at least half of one). I could be super wrong and there could be Civ Pro, Bus Ass'ns, and Remedies. And then I'll fail the Bar, because I know very, very little on these subjects.

GL.

DwightSchruteFarms
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:26 am

Kretzy wrote:there's a very strong chance of some wills/trusts question, and almost certainly a PR question (at least half of one).


This. These two will almost certainly be on the exam.

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Old Gregg
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:41 pm

...and community property.

DwightSchruteFarms
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:51 pm

Damn, just did Crossover Essay 5. Highly recc it. Corps/PR Essay and I def missed 25% of the issues

ben bernanke
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby ben bernanke » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:37 pm

Just did Crossover Essay #2. It reminded me of a Professional Responsibility issue I keep missing again and again.

When the duty of confidentiality is implicated, the sample response ALWAYS includes a discussion of attorney-client privilege, even when the privilege isnt implicated at all. For instance, the call of the question above asks you to analyze if any ethical violations were committed when the Attorney made a 911 warning call. Nonetheless, they include attorney-client privilege in both the outline and sample answer

I mean, I guess it is easy enough to remember to throw in a paragraph about the privilege whenever duty of confidentiality. However, it seems like a waste of time and I can imagine a grader shaking their head b/c it when it is not an issue whatsoever.

How do you all plan on dealing with this? Discuss the privilege or not?

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:49 pm

ben bernanke wrote:Just did Crossover Essay #2. It reminded me of a Professional Responsibility issue I keep missing again and again.

When the duty of confidentiality is implicated, the sample response ALWAYS includes a discussion of attorney-client privilege, even when the privilege isnt implicated at all. For instance, the call of the question above asks you to analyze if any ethical violations were committed when the Attorney made a 911 warning call. Nonetheless, they include attorney-client privilege in both the outline and sample answer

I mean, I guess it is easy enough to remember to throw in a paragraph about the privilege whenever duty of confidentiality. However, it seems like a waste of time and I can imagine a grader shaking their head b/c it when it is not an issue whatsoever.

How do you all plan on dealing with this? Discuss the privilege or not?


I missed that issue as well. I think it wont hurt if you dicuss ACP. It takes less than two minutes to write out the rule and some analysis (which would be almost identical tot he Duty of Conf). Just include both. Worst case scenario you lose 2-3 minutes. Best case, you get 5 points from it.

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courtneylove
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby courtneylove » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:28 pm

so are these the TLS essay predictions?

ConLaw
PR
W&T
CP
MBE
MBE
~ MBE + PR

i'm happy with this outlook, minus conlaw wah.

Foosters Galore
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Foosters Galore » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:19 pm

DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Damn, just did Crossover Essay 5. Highly recc it. Corps/PR Essay and I def missed 25% of the issues


Hmm, just outlined it and missed about 50% of the issues. On the brightside, I found an answer to that question on baressays that received a 70. It only discussed about half, if that, of the issues that the barbri answer did.

On another note, I kinda feel like my late push to memorize these non-mbe subjects is hurting my mastery of the mbe material. Just did set 4 of evidence from MPQ1 and scored a dismal 10-18.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:33 pm

Foosters Galore wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Damn, just did Crossover Essay 5. Highly recc it. Corps/PR Essay and I def missed 25% of the issues


Hmm, just outlined it and missed about 50% of the issues. On the brightside, I found an answer to that question on baressays that received a 70. It only discussed about half, if that, of the issues that the barbri answer did.

On another note, I kinda feel like my late push to memorize these non-mbe subjects is hurting my mastery of the mbe material. Just did set 4 of evidence from MPQ1 and scored a dismal 10-18.


Ya, I saw the same one. Just goes to show you how subjective this really is. Kinda scary.

What bothers me the most is that CA requires us to know a crapload of info and then tests on specific things on the essays portion. I forgot which one, but recently, they DEDICATED the second question (there were two total for this essay) to malicious prosecution. I mean, come on. How is that the least bit indicative of whether we know torts.

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Emma.
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Emma. » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:49 pm

DwightSchruteFarms wrote:
Foosters Galore wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Damn, just did Crossover Essay 5. Highly recc it. Corps/PR Essay and I def missed 25% of the issues


Hmm, just outlined it and missed about 50% of the issues. On the brightside, I found an answer to that question on baressays that received a 70. It only discussed about half, if that, of the issues that the barbri answer did.

On another note, I kinda feel like my late push to memorize these non-mbe subjects is hurting my mastery of the mbe material. Just did set 4 of evidence from MPQ1 and scored a dismal 10-18.


Ya, I saw the same one. Just goes to show you how subjective this really is. Kinda scary.

What bothers me the most is that CA requires us to know a crapload of info and then tests on specific things on the essays portion. I forgot which one, but recently, they DEDICATED the second question (there were two total for this essay) to malicious prosecution. I mean, come on. How is that the least bit indicative of whether we know torts.


That was brutal. Barbri torts lecture didn't even cover malicious prosecution at all. :|

run26.2
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby run26.2 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:24 pm

courtneylove wrote:so are these the TLS essay predictions?

ConLaw
PR
W&T
CP
MBE
MBE
~ MBE + PR

i'm happy with this outlook, minus conlaw wah.

I would certainly consider remedies in the mix on every administration of the CA bar.

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Reinhardt
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Reinhardt » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:25 pm

A bunch of evidence essays split up relevance into "logical relevance" and "legal relevance." Anyone's bar prep course teach this? Cause Themis sure didn't.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Foosters Galore » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:38 pm

Reinhardt wrote:A bunch of evidence essays split up relevance into "logical relevance" and "legal relevance." Anyone's bar prep course teach this? Cause Themis sure didn't.


Barbri did.

Can someone explain how one can convey real property via a quitclaim deed and how that doesn't conflict with the implied covenant to provide marketable title that is in every contract for sales of land?

thrillerjesus
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby thrillerjesus » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:25 pm

Here's a totally random question:

My school didn't use ExamSoft. Anybody know if it gives you a little clock in the corner, or do I actually have to go find an analog watch somewhere?

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Shaggier1
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Shaggier1 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:27 pm

My school didn't use ExamSoft. Anybody know if it gives you a little clock in the corner, or do I actually have to go find an analog watch somewhere?


Ha. Was just at Walgreens looking at analog watches. Really hope we don't have to use one... Can anyone answer this?

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Mick Haller
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Mick Haller » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:53 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
My school didn't use ExamSoft. Anybody know if it gives you a little clock in the corner, or do I actually have to go find an analog watch somewhere?


Ha. Was just at Walgreens looking at analog watches. Really hope we don't have to use one... Can anyone answer this?


pretty sure it does have a clock. it also has a timer you can use. If I had 60 minutes per essay, I would set my timer at 50 minutes, that way I knew I needed to be wrapping up ASAP and moving on to the next.

I think I kept an analog watch propped on my desk just in case during the bar. And I believe there should be a clock at the front of the room (may not be visible depending on where seated)

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Reinhardt
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Reinhardt » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:54 pm

No laptop on the MBE though. You would probably want some kind of timer for that.

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spaacecdt
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby spaacecdt » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:52 pm

Anybody know, off the top of their head, which PT required formatting as part of the exercise?

Torts Illustrated
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Torts Illustrated » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:00 pm

spaacecdt wrote:Anybody know, off the top of their head, which PT required formatting as part of the exercise?


Off the top of my head, pretty sure it was Estate of Keefe.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:03 pm

Torts Illustrated wrote:
spaacecdt wrote:Anybody know, off the top of their head, which PT required formatting as part of the exercise?


Off the top of my head, pretty sure it was Estate of Keefe.


Brutal PT.
Last edited by DwightSchruteFarms on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Shaggier1
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Shaggier1 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:04 pm

Anybody know, off the top of their head, which PT required formatting as part of the exercise?


What do you mean when you say "required formatting?"

Torts Illustrated
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Torts Illustrated » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:43 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
Anybody know, off the top of their head, which PT required formatting as part of the exercise?


What do you mean when you say "required formatting?"


It was a response to a motion for summary judgment, which in California requires you to create a two-column chart where you list all material facts that you believe to be disputed (first column) accompanied by citations to supporting affidavits (second column).

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Reinhardt
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby Reinhardt » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:30 am

Instead of studying Civ Pro like I should've, I carefully scrutinized the below 60 PTs on BarEssays. What did they all have in common (disclaimer: the ones I looked at)? They didn't follow the directions, or were 4 pages long, or both. Follow the directions like your life depends on it.

Like if there's a guide to writing memos, and it says this type of memo needs an Introduction, a Statement of the Case, a Statement of the Facts, an Argument, and a Conclusion, well you need all that. But if your assigning partner tells you to only draft the Statement of Facts and Argument, then you better not also include an Introduction. Seems common sense, but it would really suck to lose 5 points because you weren't focused on this.

Another person got a 52.5 on a 9 page PT, eloquently written. The problem? The assignment was to assess whether the client had violated the law in 5 ways (a yes or no question), and the person included a bunch of extraneous stuff like "Recommendations to Remedy the Problem." And it was to the detriment of his or her analysis of the yes or no question.

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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:44 am

Reinhardt wrote:Instead of studying Civ Pro like I should've, I carefully scrutinized the below 60 PTs on BarEssays. What did they all have in common (disclaimer: the ones I looked at)? They didn't follow the directions, or were 4 pages long, or both. Follow the directions like your life depends on it.

Like if there's a guide to writing memos, and it says this type of memo needs an Introduction, a Statement of the Case, a Statement of the Facts, an Argument, and a Conclusion, well you need all that. But if your assigning partner tells you to only draft the Statement of Facts and Argument, then you better not also include an Introduction. Seems common sense, but it would really suck to lose 5 points because you weren't focused on this.

Another person got a 52.5 on a 9 page PT, eloquently written. The problem? The assignment was to assess whether the client had violated the law in 5 ways (a yes or no question), and the person included a bunch of extraneous stuff like "Recommendations to Remedy the Problem." And it was to the detriment of his or her analysis of the yes or no question.


Awesome thanks! What's funny is that "following directions" is not as easy as it sounds. Sometimes, you really have to read, re-read, and re-re-read the instructions to make sure you get every tidbit they are asking for.

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a male human
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread

Postby a male human » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:16 am

Reinhardt wrote:Instead of studying Civ Pro like I should've, I carefully scrutinized the below 60 PTs on BarEssays. What did they all have in common (disclaimer: the ones I looked at)? They didn't follow the directions, or were 4 pages long, or both. Follow the directions like your life depends on it.

Like if there's a guide to writing memos, and it says this type of memo needs an Introduction, a Statement of the Case, a Statement of the Facts, an Argument, and a Conclusion, well you need all that. But if your assigning partner tells you to only draft the Statement of Facts and Argument, then you better not also include an Introduction. Seems common sense, but it would really suck to lose 5 points because you weren't focused on this.

Another person got a 52.5 on a 9 page PT, eloquently written. The problem? The assignment was to assess whether the client had violated the law in 5 ways (a yes or no question), and the person included a bunch of extraneous stuff like "Recommendations to Remedy the Problem." And it was to the detriment of his or her analysis of the yes or no question.

Hope you can bear lots of follow-up questions coming your way:

About how many points did a typical, decent answer get, like the ones that followed directions and wrote several pages? Do you get the sense that the grading more lax on PTs compared to essays as long as you follow directions, i.e., the score ranges higher?

On the 52.5 one, were the recommendations the only extraneous stuff? How much extraneous stuff is "a bunch"? Thanks.




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