California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread Forum
- shepdawg
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
A little late but relevant and funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6P3RFEAHeQ
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Not sure about PT B now that I think back on it. The more I think about it, the more i think i may have really screwed it up. My essay was structured as:
1) section explaining the law: is the expert's testimony relevant, does it help the jury, is it prejudicial? I spent a lot of time on this, because the case law was initially pretty confusing to me.
2) section analyzing if a BWS expert's testimony was relevant IN GENERAL. I felt like the standard the courts were using for relevance was to look at the facts and say "Is this a case of domestic violence/cycle of abuse?" If yes, BWS testimony is relevant. This worries me, bc it sounds like ppl went through each of the 8 pieces of testimony, and asked if each individual one would be relevant.
3) section analyzing each of the things the expert would testify on and whether it was helpful to the jury, given the facts. spent 70% of the time here talking about the fact that bws victims change their stories and an expert will help. I did go into individual detail here, because I felt like the facts gave me a lot to work with
4) section analyzing prejudice. I really regret not doing much more with this. I analyzed the prejudice WRT profiling and patterns in depth, since the first case discussed that alot. Then, I pretty much paid lipservice to the others, as in not much time spent at all on the other stuff. I noted that the rest of the topics were all probative, and that it would be hard to analyze the individual prejudice involved bc it was in the judge's discretion, and there isn't precedent available. Again, i think I fucked up here, since it sounds like most of you balanced each individual piece of testimony with more detail.
1) section explaining the law: is the expert's testimony relevant, does it help the jury, is it prejudicial? I spent a lot of time on this, because the case law was initially pretty confusing to me.
2) section analyzing if a BWS expert's testimony was relevant IN GENERAL. I felt like the standard the courts were using for relevance was to look at the facts and say "Is this a case of domestic violence/cycle of abuse?" If yes, BWS testimony is relevant. This worries me, bc it sounds like ppl went through each of the 8 pieces of testimony, and asked if each individual one would be relevant.
3) section analyzing each of the things the expert would testify on and whether it was helpful to the jury, given the facts. spent 70% of the time here talking about the fact that bws victims change their stories and an expert will help. I did go into individual detail here, because I felt like the facts gave me a lot to work with
4) section analyzing prejudice. I really regret not doing much more with this. I analyzed the prejudice WRT profiling and patterns in depth, since the first case discussed that alot. Then, I pretty much paid lipservice to the others, as in not much time spent at all on the other stuff. I noted that the rest of the topics were all probative, and that it would be hard to analyze the individual prejudice involved bc it was in the judge's discretion, and there isn't precedent available. Again, i think I fucked up here, since it sounds like most of you balanced each individual piece of testimony with more detail.
- a male human
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Man, I don't even remember details from the PTs.
- Regionality
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
I broke my essay up into 1 major section on her qualifications as an expert (ie. laying her foundation), then 1 major section going through each of the 8 pieces of evidence, and then 1 conclusion.masterbrowski wrote:Not sure about PT B now that I think back on it. The more I think about it, the more i think i may have really screwed it up. My essay was structured as:
1) section explaining the law: is the expert's testimony relevant, does it help the jury, is it prejudicial? I spent a lot of time on this, because the case law was initially pretty confusing to me.
2) section analyzing if a BWS expert's testimony was relevant IN GENERAL. I felt like the standard the courts were using for relevance was to look at the facts and say "Is this a case of domestic violence/cycle of abuse?" If yes, BWS testimony is relevant. This worries me, bc it sounds like ppl went through each of the 8 pieces of testimony, and asked if each individual one would be relevant.
3) section analyzing each of the things the expert would testify on and whether it was helpful to the jury, given the facts. spent 70% of the time here talking about the fact that bws victims change their stories and an expert will help. I did go into individual detail here, because I felt like the facts gave me a lot to work with
4) section analyzing prejudice. I really regret not doing much more with this. I analyzed the prejudice WRT profiling and patterns in depth, since the first case discussed that alot. Then, I pretty much paid lipservice to the others, as in not much time spent at all on the other stuff. I noted that the rest of the topics were all probative, and that it would be hard to analyze the individual prejudice involved bc it was in the judge's discretion, and there isn't precedent available. Again, i think I fucked up here, since it sounds like most of you balanced each individual piece of testimony with more detail.
For each of the 8 pieces of evidence I applied the 2-prong Slater test. I didn't think BWS itself was relevant to the current case except in so much as the subject matters were similar between the cases from the library and our file. Instead, I just applied the same analysis that the judges did in the library cases to the current facts using the Slater analysis. I think I predicted that the judge would let in 6 of the pieces of evidence, and would not let in 2 of them.
In my conclusion I summed up what I had done, and reiterated that this evidence was not coming in to prove the occurrence of any battery, but simply to help a jury in making an impeachment determination for the abused woman's trial testimony.
I was pretty delirious from exhaustion at the end, but this is what I recall having done.
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
I think the waiver of the "no changes unless in writing" was the right way to go on the contracts issue.
On the 2nd PT I walked through Slater to start with, breezed by the expert's qualifications (since the defense stipulated she was qualified) and then dug into the first prong of Slater with respect to all of the issues. Then analyzed the second prong with respect to each category of testimony, including the quasi-403 analysis where applicable (profiling and the sexual control). Concluded that a number of things would only be admissible if the victim actually took the stand and recanted. Also threw in a short section suggesting that the expert may want to talk about mutual combat as well, since it looked like it might be an issue in the case.
On the 2nd PT I walked through Slater to start with, breezed by the expert's qualifications (since the defense stipulated she was qualified) and then dug into the first prong of Slater with respect to all of the issues. Then analyzed the second prong with respect to each category of testimony, including the quasi-403 analysis where applicable (profiling and the sexual control). Concluded that a number of things would only be admissible if the victim actually took the stand and recanted. Also threw in a short section suggesting that the expert may want to talk about mutual combat as well, since it looked like it might be an issue in the case.
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
I know (i.e., hope) that nothing is "automatic" in grading, but failing to complete BOTH CPTs!!?!?! WTF?
.....IS THIS AN AUTOMATIC/HIGHER LIKELIHOOD of FAILING?
Other than that, I think I pretty much killed the essays .... (i'm on the services K train - no UCC, no impracticability/impossibility bc the shortage was temporary, unenforceable 25K due to no consideration, conditions precedent ok based on parol evidence to expound/explain, failure to use brother's products an immaterial breach nominally recoverable...blah blah blah)
...but really tho, am I in trouble for not completing BOTH CPTs?
.....IS THIS AN AUTOMATIC/HIGHER LIKELIHOOD of FAILING?
Other than that, I think I pretty much killed the essays .... (i'm on the services K train - no UCC, no impracticability/impossibility bc the shortage was temporary, unenforceable 25K due to no consideration, conditions precedent ok based on parol evidence to expound/explain, failure to use brother's products an immaterial breach nominally recoverable...blah blah blah)
...but really tho, am I in trouble for not completing BOTH CPTs?
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Sounds obvious, but the short answer is "it doesn't help." It'll all depend on how much you failed to complete. Failed to flesh out a discussion on a subtopic? Not a big deal. Failed to discuss 4 of the 8 categories of evidence in the second PT? Not good. Especially if you had a heading sitting out there like "Profiling Evidence" without anything following it.lawschooltoo wrote:
...but really tho, am I in trouble for not completing BOTH CPTs?
- a male human
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
I don't think so. Each essay and PT is graded separately. They just add up your scores. If you did OK in other sections you'll be fine.lawschooltoo wrote:I know (i.e., hope) that nothing is "automatic" in grading, but failing to complete BOTH CPTs!!?!?! WTF?
.....IS THIS AN AUTOMATIC/HIGHER LIKELIHOOD of FAILING?
Other than that, I think I pretty much killed the essays .... (i'm on the services K train - no UCC, no impracticability/impossibility bc the shortage was temporary, unenforceable 25K due to no consideration, conditions precedent ok based on parol evidence to expound/explain, failure to use brother's products an immaterial breach nominally recoverable...blah blah blah)
...but really tho, am I in trouble for not completing BOTH CPTs?
- Regionality
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Nothing is automatic. As I'm sure your bar prep company walked you through, each test is graded individually and given a certain weight.lawschooltoo wrote:I know (i.e., hope) that nothing is "automatic" in grading, but failing to complete BOTH CPTs!!?!?! WTF?
.....IS THIS AN AUTOMATIC/HIGHER LIKELIHOOD of FAILING?
Other than that, I think I pretty much killed the essays .... (i'm on the services K train - no UCC, no impracticability/impossibility bc the shortage was temporary, unenforceable 25K due to no consideration, conditions precedent ok based on parol evidence to expound/explain, failure to use brother's products an immaterial breach nominally recoverable...blah blah blah)
...but really tho, am I in trouble for not completing BOTH CPTs?
Bombing both PTs would just mean you'd have to do awesome in the rest to make up for the difference.
This might help: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/BarPr ... .23.08.pdf
- TaipeiMort
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Mine was broken into two parts. The first part was proving that there was enough evidence of BWS in general to move on to the second prong. I used the three different rules provided in each of the three cases (I think one case said "there should have been past instances," one said the instances should have been violent or charged acts," and one said that prior instances were okay if only verbal abuse or coercive force, even that of criticizing someone's domestic work, if part of the cycle of violence) these doctrines didn't seem to conflict too much, so I reconciled them into one doctrine. Another way you could have done it is discuss how the facts of each case were similar or disimilar to the current case, and try to show that the more lenient standard should apply.Regionality wrote:I broke my essay up into 1 major section on her qualifications as an expert (ie. laying her foundation), then 1 major section going through each of the 8 pieces of evidence, and then 1 conclusion.masterbrowski wrote:Not sure about PT B now that I think back on it. The more I think about it, the more i think i may have really screwed it up. My essay was structured as:
1) section explaining the law: is the expert's testimony relevant, does it help the jury, is it prejudicial? I spent a lot of time on this, because the case law was initially pretty confusing to me.
2) section analyzing if a BWS expert's testimony was relevant IN GENERAL. I felt like the standard the courts were using for relevance was to look at the facts and say "Is this a case of domestic violence/cycle of abuse?" If yes, BWS testimony is relevant. This worries me, bc it sounds like ppl went through each of the 8 pieces of testimony, and asked if each individual one would be relevant.
3) section analyzing each of the things the expert would testify on and whether it was helpful to the jury, given the facts. spent 70% of the time here talking about the fact that bws victims change their stories and an expert will help. I did go into individual detail here, because I felt like the facts gave me a lot to work with
4) section analyzing prejudice. I really regret not doing much more with this. I analyzed the prejudice WRT profiling and patterns in depth, since the first case discussed that alot. Then, I pretty much paid lipservice to the others, as in not much time spent at all on the other stuff. I noted that the rest of the topics were all probative, and that it would be hard to analyze the individual prejudice involved bc it was in the judge's discretion, and there isn't precedent available. Again, i think I fucked up here, since it sounds like most of you balanced each individual piece of testimony with more detail.
For each of the 8 pieces of evidence I applied the 2-prong Slater test. I didn't think BWS itself was relevant to the current case except in so much as the subject matters were similar between the cases from the library and our file. Instead, I just applied the same analysis that the judges did in the library cases to the current facts using the Slater analysis. I think I predicted that the judge would let in 6 of the pieces of evidence, and would not let in 2 of them.
In my conclusion I summed up what I had done, and reiterated that this evidence was not coming in to prove the occurrence of any battery, but simply to help a jury in making an impeachment determination for the abused woman's trial testimony.
I was pretty delirious from exhaustion at the end, but this is what I recall having done.
Thereafter, I took each of the 8 or whatever categories of evidence and proved two things: that the evidence was probative, and that it was disputed by both parties. I proved evidence being probative in a variety of ways. Sometimes a court would say directly: "this is probative." Sometimes, it would state that it is probative in certain circumstances, and you'd have to analogize those circumstances to the circumstances present. Sometimes, it would say that the element is related to something they've already declared probative. Next, I would identify which facts were actually at issue. I didn't have a problem justifying most of them at issue, but there was one which required that she leave the relationship (the one after the window). I wasn't sure if this was contested, because neither party was claiming that she actually left the relationship for a period of time.
- Shaggier1
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Well, this thread has convinced me that I failed the California Bar Exam.
- Mick Haller
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Doubt it. Almost all above median people at decent schools pass.Shaggier1 wrote:Well, this thread has convinced me that I failed the California Bar Exam.
- Old Gregg
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
The people in this thread are analyzing their essay answers several order of magnitudes more than your typical bar grader will. I'd just stop reading this thread for the sake of your sanity, and for the sake of escaping any liquids that inevitably result from the good ol' circlejerk.Shaggier1 wrote:Well, this thread has convinced me that I failed the California Bar Exam.
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- a male human
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
I completely understand this feeling; some of the comments on this thread have made me think I had completely missed the point of the essays/PT/MBE. However, I think this is akin to how a lot of us felt during after our first set of law school exams (when we were 1Ls). After my first 1L exam, I remember hearing my friends talk about all of the issues they spotted, and I was convinced that I had failed because I missed a bunch of those issues. Because the Bar exam is a new experience (like the first semester of law school), we don't really know what to expect. That anxiety makes us focus on the details and mistakes instead of seeing the bigger picture.Shaggier1 wrote:Well, this thread has convinced me that I failed the California Bar Exam.
That being said, I am sure that a lot of people fail undeservingly. After having to suffer through this monster of a test, I have gained a lot of respect for anyone who has taken it in the past--whether he/she failed or passed.
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
The essay specifically said "Intentional Torts" ..... so ..... did anyone else go into super long soliloquy about Negligence? haha, I did.
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
lawschooltoo wrote:The essay specifically said "Intentional Torts" ..... so ..... did anyone else go into super long soliloquy about Negligence? haha, I did.
I didn't go into negligence but did cover proximate cause-intentional torts are definitely my weakness.
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- a male human
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Welp. I think I forgot to talk about proximate cause. But I guess it doesn't matter since it's not really an issue (I think?).
- Regionality
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
All torts require factual and proximate causation linking the wrongful act to the damages, unless damages are presumed like with certain defamation torts. Or intentional torts I suppose you can get nominal damages without any causation.a male human wrote:Welp. I think I forgot to talk about proximate cause. But I guess it doesn't matter since it's not really an issue (I think?).
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Chill. can't control it now. Hit the gym, do drink, find some sex buddies. Just stop thinking about this test. It's over.a male human wrote:Welp. I think I forgot to talk about proximate cause. But I guess it doesn't matter since it's not really an issue (I think?).
- a male human
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Yeah sex buddies! I'm a sex object. Every time I ask girls for sex, they object.
I'm also prepping for an interview. My hopes and dreams are riding on an employer who actually paid me attention, hopefully not by mistake.
(btw sorry for mentioning law again, but i looked into intentional torts. it doesn't seem like proximate cause is required because you "intend" for acts that occur after. even in negligence, culpable acts are superseding)
I'm also prepping for an interview. My hopes and dreams are riding on an employer who actually paid me attention, hopefully not by mistake.
(btw sorry for mentioning law again, but i looked into intentional torts. it doesn't seem like proximate cause is required because you "intend" for acts that occur after. even in negligence, culpable acts are superseding)
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Wasn't meant to be a brag. Thought I had spent paragraphs writing about a non-issue.a male human wrote:Welp. I think I forgot to talk about proximate cause. But I guess it doesn't matter since it's not really an issue (I think?).
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
de-lurking to ask... is anyone still thinking about the test?
i feel like an idiot for still checking this thread. but i am.
and this is my third bar (passed ny and ma last year... not so confident about this one. )
i feel like an idiot for still checking this thread. but i am.
and this is my third bar (passed ny and ma last year... not so confident about this one. )
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Had nightmares about it all last night. No joke. I estimate a 60%-65% chance of passing
- a male human
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Re: California Bar Exam (July 2013) thread
Same. I had a delirious dream where (among other interesting things like having to run and traveling ~30 years into the future--any dream analysts here?) I had to retake the essay portions of the bar while I was sick (like I've been in real life, probably the stress leaving me). I was stuck in the nightmare for the first set of 3 essays. When we got to the other set, I was stumped and couldn't even identify the subject for one of them. Then I woke up and realized that a retake is not a certainty yet.spartjdawg wrote:Had nightmares about it all last night. No joke. I estimate a 60%-65% chance of passing
Crazy shit. I also put myself at 65%, which is good if I look at the overall pass rate but not that of accredited schools. Those multiple-guess questions really messed me up.
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