Illinois Bar July 2013 Chat

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09042014
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:26 pm

rt051687 wrote:Just some procedural questions:

(1) Does anyone know whether we received a seat assignment, or do we get that once we get to the testing site?

(2) Should/can we bring a watch? The directions suggest that we can't, but Guzman said in the intro to the simulated MBE that we should get watches and set them to 12:00 when the test starts...


I'd defer to the rules saying you can't .

jml8756
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby jml8756 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:33 pm

Surface. Water. Drainage.

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traehekat
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby traehekat » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:47 pm

jml8756 wrote:Surface. Water. Drainage.


I called that, right? ... Right?

rock steady
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby rock steady » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:58 pm

Yeah, wow, I was all over the place on that surface water question. I didn't know where to go with that. Hopefully a good chunk of people were also spooked by it.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby Holly Golightly » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:59 pm

lol, surface water rights and random shit about an injunction. Love it.

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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby rock steady » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:05 pm

Yeah, IL was not holding back! Been thinking about that damn water question on the IEE too much over the last 24 hours. I gotta stop obsessing despite writing one of the most incoherent essays I've ever written.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby Holly Golightly » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:09 pm

rock steady wrote:Yeah, IL was not holding back! Been thinking about that damn water question on the IEE too much over the last 24 hours. I gotta stop obsessing despite writing one of the most incoherent essays I've ever written.

My random babbling on the property question on the MEE was even worse.

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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby jml8756 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:18 pm

We know IL is trying to make the test harder by raising the passing score. They were basically forced by the law school deans to delay the score change a couple years, but I wonder if they're trying to make up for it in the meantime by making the test and the grading substantively harder.

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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby rock steady » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:22 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
rock steady wrote:Yeah, IL was not holding back! Been thinking about that damn water question on the IEE too much over the last 24 hours. I gotta stop obsessing despite writing one of the most incoherent essays I've ever written.

My random babbling on the property question on the MEE was even worse.


I think we should be fine. One bad essay won't sink the ship, right? I mean at least we put something down for the essays. I was at a point where I overwrote on the Con law / injunction question and the IL civ pro / evidence question that I got back to water rights with like 20 minutes and just wrote some terse rules and "analysis" from all parts of property law: fixtures, covenants, "rainwater falling on your property is your property," none of which were on point, haha.

The MEE was much better for me, and I thought the MBE was challenging but manageable. (But seriously, no secured transactions or commercial paper questions at all? Studied like crazy for those "bar-testable" topics.)

rock steady
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby rock steady » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:30 pm

jml8756 wrote:We know IL is trying to make the test harder by raising the passing score. They were basically forced by the law school deans to delay the score change a couple years, but I wonder if they're trying to make up for it in the meantime by making the test and the grading substantively harder.


I sure hope not, but how knows. C'mon, though, the bar proctor said "I hope you all pass," lol. So we should be right on the path to passing this bad boy!

jml8756
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby jml8756 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:31 pm

That's the thing about the surface water - there was nothing we could really apply from other things we know about Property. It was ALL about the specific surface water rules which you either know or don't know.

And if anyone cares at this point, you have the right to the natural flow of your surface water onto another's property, but you cannot make unreasonable improvements that cause damage, and you cannot completely obstruct the flow from another's property onto your own. So Al's "natural flow" onto Bob's lawn was OK, Al's drainage tiles into Bob's basement were not OK, and Bob's cement wall was not OK.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby Holly Golightly » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:33 pm

rock steady wrote:
jml8756 wrote:We know IL is trying to make the test harder by raising the passing score. They were basically forced by the law school deans to delay the score change a couple years, but I wonder if they're trying to make up for it in the meantime by making the test and the grading substantively harder.


I sure hope not, but how knows. C'mon, though, the bar proctor said "I hope you all pass," lol. So we should be right on the path to passing this bad boy!

We had a moron get on stage at the end of the first day and say "depending on how the nation does on the mbe tomorrow, maybe you needed 2s on those essays, or maybe you needed 4s!"

I think everyone wanted to kill her.

rock steady
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby rock steady » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:39 pm

jml8756 wrote:That's the thing about the surface water - there was nothing we could really apply from other things we know about Property. It was ALL about the specific surface water rules which you either know or don't know.

And if anyone cares at this point, you have the right to the natural flow of your surface water onto another's property, but you cannot make unreasonable improvements that cause damage, and you cannot completely obstruct the flow from another's property onto your own. So Al's "natural flow" onto Bob's lawn was OK, Al's drainage tiles into Bob's basement were not OK, and Bob's cement wall was not OK.


Yeah, I knew it was a water rights issue from the start, but I didn't know the rule, so I just had to put something down, even if it was totally off-base. I couldn't leave it blank. I thought the other essays were pretty straightforward with some quirks. I just need to tell myself that my crappy water rights essay won't pull me under.

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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby jml8756 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:46 pm

rock steady wrote:
jml8756 wrote:That's the thing about the surface water - there was nothing we could really apply from other things we know about Property. It was ALL about the specific surface water rules which you either know or don't know.

And if anyone cares at this point, you have the right to the natural flow of your surface water onto another's property, but you cannot make unreasonable improvements that cause damage, and you cannot completely obstruct the flow from another's property onto your own. So Al's "natural flow" onto Bob's lawn was OK, Al's drainage tiles into Bob's basement were not OK, and Bob's cement wall was not OK.


Yeah, I knew it was a water rights issue from the start, but I didn't know the rule, so I just had to put something down, even if it was totally off-base. I couldn't leave it blank. I thought the other essays were pretty straightforward with some quirks. I just need to tell myself that my crappy water rights essay won't pull me under.


It definitely won't pull you under. I'm sure almost everyone had to guess on that one. Should be an interesting read for the graders to see what everyone came up with.

09042014
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:51 pm

jml8756 wrote:That's the thing about the surface water - there was nothing we could really apply from other things we know about Property. It was ALL about the specific surface water rules which you either know or don't know.

And if anyone cares at this point, you have the right to the natural flow of your surface water onto another's property, but you cannot make unreasonable improvements that cause damage, and you cannot completely obstruct the flow from another's property onto your own. So Al's "natural flow" onto Bob's lawn was OK, Al's drainage tiles into Bob's basement were not OK, and Bob's cement wall was not OK.


I tried applying trespass and nuisance since I didn't know anything about water rights. Hopefully that will get me a 2.

09042014
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:52 pm

jml8756 wrote:We know IL is trying to make the test harder by raising the passing score. They were basically forced by the law school deans to delay the score change a couple years, but I wonder if they're trying to make up for it in the meantime by making the test and the grading substantively harder.


The essays are scaled to the MBE average. If the average was really shitty, it would just get heavily scaled up. As long as they don't move the points we need, they cannot make it harder.

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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby jml8756 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:55 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
jml8756 wrote:We know IL is trying to make the test harder by raising the passing score. They were basically forced by the law school deans to delay the score change a couple years, but I wonder if they're trying to make up for it in the meantime by making the test and the grading substantively harder.


The essays are scaled to the MBE average. If the average was really shitty, it would just get heavily scaled up. As long as they don't move the points we need, they cannot make it harder.


Do you mean the MEE average? What about the IEE? Do they have discretion to make the curve tighter for those 3 essays?

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traehekat
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Chat

Postby traehekat » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:21 pm

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Last edited by traehekat on Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FeuerFrei
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby FeuerFrei » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:27 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
I tried applying trespass and nuisance since I didn't know anything about water rights. Hopefully that will get me a 2.


I am really surprised how unanimous everyone is in thinking that was a water rights problem. To me this was an obvious nuisance and trespass case. Water rights has to do with who can claim rights to water, and the problem was about owner 1 causing water to enter land of owner 2 resulting in a trespass/nuisance to owner 2. It makes sense as a problem because the building of the house itself was not a nuisance because a house has greater social utility than soggy land for an extra day, but the drainage of all water onto owner 2's property became unreasonable and substantial. Then the wall was a defense of property.

And that makes a lot more sense than the board testing on our knowledge of the tiny random subject of water rights.

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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby ace_of_spades » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:00 am

FeuerFrei wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
I tried applying trespass and nuisance since I didn't know anything about water rights. Hopefully that will get me a 2.


I am really surprised how unanimous everyone is in thinking that was a water rights problem. To me this was an obvious nuisance and trespass case. Water rights has to do with who can claim rights to water, and the problem was about owner 1 causing water to enter land of owner 2 resulting in a trespass/nuisance to owner 2. It makes sense as a problem because the building of the house itself was not a nuisance because a house has greater social utility than soggy land for an extra day, but the drainage of all water onto owner 2's property became unreasonable and substantial. Then the wall was a defense of property.

And that makes a lot more sense than the board testing on our knowledge of the tiny random subject of water rights.


I think it was a combo of trespass and water rights. The lecture notes regarding water rights from barbri addressed the fact pattern pretty well. Also, I think there was some room in there for a discussion about seeking a tro or injunction. But honestly, who knows. I'm just glad it's over.

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emciosn
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Essay Predictions?

Postby emciosn » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:12 am

ace_of_spades wrote:
FeuerFrei wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
I tried applying trespass and nuisance since I didn't know anything about water rights. Hopefully that will get me a 2.


I am really surprised how unanimous everyone is in thinking that was a water rights problem. To me this was an obvious nuisance and trespass case. Water rights has to do with who can claim rights to water, and the problem was about owner 1 causing water to enter land of owner 2 resulting in a trespass/nuisance to owner 2. It makes sense as a problem because the building of the house itself was not a nuisance because a house has greater social utility than soggy land for an extra day, but the drainage of all water onto owner 2's property became unreasonable and substantial. Then the wall was a defense of property.

And that makes a lot more sense than the board testing on our knowledge of the tiny random subject of water rights.


I think it was a combo of trespass and water rights. The lecture notes regarding water rights from barbri addressed the fact pattern pretty well. Also, I think there was some room in there for a discussion about seeking a tro or injunction. But honestly, who knows. I'm just glad it's over.


It wasn't a water rights question in the sense of riparian rights etc that were probably in your bar notes. There are specific rules on surface water running across your land that apply to adjacent landowners. These rules are not necessarily related to nuisance rules either. I babbled for a while about the common enemy rule (which IL apparently doesn't apply) then talked about nuisance to fill up the rest of the space. Just hoping for a point or two...

As for the first IEE question I though I was clearing an equity question with a little constitutional law sprinkled in. I talked about the constitutional issue for a little bit at the beginning then when into the propriety of the injunction (for ex: injunctions are generally not used to enforce criminal laws...). Either way the question was a mess. I'm glad the third question was straight forward IL civ pro and evidence.

At any rate. F it--its over now.

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traehekat
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Chat

Postby traehekat » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:42 pm

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Last edited by traehekat on Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Chat

Postby Holly Golightly » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:12 pm

I addressed the first problem mostly as a conlaw problem. Procedural DP + separation of powers (no advisory opinions, can only settle the controversy before you).

Also went with nuisance & trespass for #2.

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Agoraphobia
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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Chat

Postby Agoraphobia » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:29 pm

Agreed, procedural DP/first amendment is where I went, although I rambled a bit about the injunction too.

For #2 I threw in a nuisance analysis along with Common Enemy Doctrine, which apparently IL doesn't even use and under which I only analyzed 2 of the 3 scenarios correctly anyhow. So it's a wash.

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Re: Illinois Bar July 2013 Chat

Postby JAGGER » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:58 pm

Has anyone taken a look at the Illinois questions they let us take home since the exam? This wait is killing me, particularly as I think more about the con law question. As soon as I saw that this was the first question, I had an "oh sh*t" moment at my table as horrible thoughts about how the rest of the exam would go swirled through my head. As for the water question, in hindsight, it doesn't seem as bad or complicated as I initially thought and I think this will be true for most test takers. And the third question seemed pretty straightforward at the time and still doesn't seem bad.

Oh well...




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