Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

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rsg87
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rsg87 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:02 am

cruzgator wrote:I am guessing there won't be a contracts essay since it has been tested on the last two exams.

Property has to be a given because they didn't test it in Feb. I would not be shocked if we get a real property question with secured transactions as well. Some of the essays from the Mass Bar (yeah I am taking both Mass and Fla) have had secured tested with property and usually they are talking about fixtures. A commercial building with a couple mortgages and then a security interest on a fixture on that building. Maybe something like an AC attached to the roof.

Otherwise I think we are looking at Torts, Trusts and Fla Con Law. They have tested family law a lot recently so I am hoping we don't see that. Fla Con law is due. Also, there will be 1-2 PR issues I am guessing.

How are you guys doing on the practice essays? It seems like the model answers are kitchen sink answers. Just spit out as much law as you know that is even remotely related. Pretty frustrating.

My predictions 1) Real Prop/Secured 2) Trusts/PR 3) Fla Con Law. If not probably torts. They tested defamation in feb so it will probably be negligence related.


I think your predictions are probably pretty accurate. When secured is tested with property, are the questions like whether they have attached and perfected a security interest? Is it like when there is a mortgage on the property and someone else has a security interest in the fixture and they both want it?

rnf1292
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rnf1292 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:11 am

Agree with the above, though we may still get torts instead of trusts. It doesn't look like they test trusts very often.

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Charles Barkley
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby Charles Barkley » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:35 pm

I hope we get torts.

I'm really only doing a cursory review of my family law outline - so i hope we don't get that.

cruzgator
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby cruzgator » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:48 pm

The questions I have seen for Property/secured have usually involved 2-3 lenders. Two of the lenders will have a priority dispute over the building and a dispute over inventory/equipment. The loser of those disputes will usually have priority over a fixture due to a fixture filing though. Then the third lender will be somewhere in the middle of the facts and he takes a SI in "all after acquired" business assets. Then you will have to discuss if the fixture was a business asset etc. They aren't fun problems, but its still better than com paper.

If com paper is on the essays, and isn't by itself, it will probably be tested with contracts or maybe a fraud situation with torts.

rnf1292
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rnf1292 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:39 pm

At this point how many MBE q's are you guys working on per day??

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SAOJD10
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby SAOJD10 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:57 pm

I'm just sticking to the standard 33 - I have had some timing issues so I am trying to hash them out

cruzgator
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby cruzgator » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:02 pm

I am doing around the same. Anywhere from 25-40. Usually only 2 topics a day. What are you guys doing for the Florida MC? I have heard from numerous people that its the most frustrating part of the exam.

rsg87
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rsg87 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:18 pm

cruzgator wrote:I am doing around the same. Anywhere from 25-40. Usually only 2 topics a day. What are you guys doing for the Florida MC? I have heard from numerous people that its the most frustrating part of the exam.


I am doing 34 Florida MC a day since that's how Themis groups them. They can get brutal in how specific they are. I didn't go to law school in Florida though so other people may be more well versed in Florida Civ and Crim Pro than me.

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SAOJD10
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby SAOJD10 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:33 pm

Business entities Fl multiple choice is absolutely destroying me - its just way too specific

cruzgator
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby cruzgator » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:08 pm

Yeah the Corps/Pship questions are by far the worst. Wills aren't bad at all and Evidence seems middle of the road. The procedure questions seem all about memorization.

rsg87
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rsg87 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:08 pm

SAOJD10 wrote:Business entities Fl multiple choice is absolutely destroying me - its just way too specific


Agreed and they just had to add partnerships to it as well. Sadly, I think I know Delaware corporation law better than Florida's.

Also I am thinking Evidence will be one of the multiple choice sections. They have never gone 2 tests in a row without testing it (since 2004) and it was not tested on the February exam.

rnf1292
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rnf1292 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:37 pm

Does anyone know if the released bar q's are already integrated into the FLT books? I called barbri but the lady didn't seem to know what she was talking about.

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:41 pm

rnf1292 wrote:Does anyone know if the released bar q's are already integrated into the FLT books? I called barbri but the lady didn't seem to know what she was talking about.



Not really sure what you're asking but I feel the Barbri Qs are harder. Just look at the questions on the Florida bar study guide.

By the way, how are people doing 30-40 mc per day? Just redoing the ones assigned in the FLT books?

rnf1292
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rnf1292 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:25 pm

RodneyBoonfield wrote:
rnf1292 wrote:Does anyone know if the released bar q's are already integrated into the FLT books? I called barbri but the lady didn't seem to know what she was talking about.



Not really sure what you're asking but I feel the Barbri Qs are harder. Just look at the questions on the Florida bar study guide.

By the way, how are people doing 30-40 mc per day? Just redoing the ones assigned in the FLT books?


I was asking if the ones on the FL bar website are also incorporated into barbri's FLT books. I haven't looked at the website ones yet and was just wondering if it was worth it to go through them

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:41 pm

Only looked through them briefly. MC Qs seem MUCH easier than Barbri Qs, though.

cruzgator
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby cruzgator » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:10 am

The MC Qs on the Florida Bar website have been up there for 10 years so who knows how accurate a representation they are. I keep hearing that the Fla MCs are almost impossible to read on the exam.

andrew01
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby andrew01 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:05 am

Before I get into things, can I ask some Floridians some logistical questions:
1. Can I really not bring in my own pencils? I like mechanical pencils :lol:
2. Is a credit card and wallet ok to take in or really just an ID + "dollar bills"
3. Can I buy a bottle of water there to have at my seat? I rather not waste time running to the water fountain as I need the time for my slow typing!


MC Predictions:

Procedure / Wills / Business Entities

My rationale for no evidence is primarily because of Frye. FL evidence MC questions are typically the easiest ones on the exam with the highest percentage correct. This is with exception to the 3 or 4 offered on admission of expert testimony. With Daubert coming in on July 1, there is no well settled interpretation in FL. Most MC questions are based on actual Supreme Court cases and FL won't have any for the new standard. It is hard to imagine them testing us on a topic with such a big recent change. They can only try to trick us by slipping in opinion testimony so many times.

I also think they may want to stay away from as much criminal stuff as possible because of the Zimmerman trial. I can't imagine the FL Bar liking the attention.

Essay Predictions:

1. Contracts / Secured Transactions
2. Real Property / FL Con Law / (Secured Transactions option 2)
3. Criminal Law / just kidding... Torts / Professional Conduct

We know that one of the new subjects will be tested. Dependency was maybe tested in February. I also thing delinquency will just be added into the procedure MC questions. That gives us secured transactions, commercial paper. While I know professionalism is new too, it is an expansion of professional conduct that is pretty broad and I just mention it briefly in almost any ethics related question to scrape up a few extra points. I'm still transitioning from another bar where essays have a total of 30 points to Florida's 100 point scale.

Of secured transaction (UCC9) and commercial paper (UCC3), UCC9 is my pick. Much easier to combine UCC9 with another topic as an intertwined story. UCC3 would almost need to have a separate story like buyer paid with check, seller lost, finder changed $20 to $2000, bank paid. UCC9 can more easily wind around a story like buyer took a secured loan, had AAC clause, also had a mortgage from a different lender, also had a PMSI on inventory, someone missed filing date. UCC9 just works so well with contracts that I think that is how they will give it to us. UCC9 can also go into property but related to a fixture vs mortgage and how homestead protection against forced sale would apply (glad I'm writing this because I'm not sure how a PMSI in a fixture works with homestead if it is not in the personal property exception... thoughts?)

Homestead rarely misses an exam recently and, as others have mentioned, property has never missed more then 2 in a row. Obviously a combination that works well together and, as discussed above, another place to fit UCC9 in. In February FL Con Law only played a minor role in family law jurisdiction that many probably missed and only discussed the UCCJEA. FL Con Law has only played a minor role twice and only missed one administration of the past 8.

They need a place to test professional conduct and I believe property and contracts are needed to tag on homestead and UCC9. It's a toss up here for torts, trusts, and family law, all of which are good places to test professional conduct. Torts is my choice here. In particular, medical malpractice. It is a good place for the "yankee go home" points, never specifically tested before and also a good way for them to force us to discuss punitive damages, which they seem to love. The one problem is that it also had some recent changes but not as to the procedure that we would likely be tested on. Also a good way to test on survival and wrongful death as they too have some good Florida distinctions. I'm just happy I can just glance over most of the substantive Florida tort distinctions since most were tested in February!

This removes only trusts and family law from the essay topics tested. Trusts is an on again / off again subject and I believe it is currently off again with fitting in the new topics. While family law is a current trend, other topics have been skipped to much to keep family law in the mix for this administration. I'll still be

Comments? Questions? Concerns?

It's a lot to read but writing it really helped me understand where the exam could go.

If you all just ignore my post, good luck on the exam!

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Charles Barkley
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby Charles Barkley » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:10 am

I agree with your essay analysis for the most part.

For MC, I expect procedure/evidence/wills.

I fully expect evidence to be on the exam.

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iShotFirst
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby iShotFirst » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:05 pm

andrew01 wrote:

MC Predictions:

Procedure / Wills / Business Entities



Essay Predictions:

1. Contracts / Secured Transactions
2. Real Property / FL Con Law / (Secured Transactions option 2)
3. Criminal Law / just kidding... Torts / Professional Conduct


It's a lot to read but writing it really helped me understand where the exam could go.

If you all just ignore my post, good luck on the exam!



Do we really know that one of the new subjects will be tested? Im not sure about that. They may give time for FL takers to get used to the idea of having to study those subjects in law school itself. I agree that Real Property and Conlaw will be on there but I think they will be two separate essays. Your torts reasoning sounds very good unfortunately for me - i would much prefer trusts or family law!

AS to your other questions, you cant bring in water or pencils I know for sure, not sure about credit cards you should just call them.

rnf1292
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rnf1292 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:41 pm

WTF is with property essay question #26? Ridiculously long and has 8 separate questions. FL is so random.

cruzgator
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby cruzgator » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:46 pm

andrew01 wrote:Before I get into things, can I ask some Floridians some logistical questions:
1. Can I really not bring in my own pencils? I like mechanical pencils :lol:
2. Is a credit card and wallet ok to take in or really just an ID + "dollar bills"
3. Can I buy a bottle of water there to have at my seat? I rather not waste time running to the water fountain as I need the time for my slow typing!


MC Predictions:

Procedure / Wills / Business Entities

My rationale for no evidence is primarily because of Frye. FL evidence MC questions are typically the easiest ones on the exam with the highest percentage correct. This is with exception to the 3 or 4 offered on admission of expert testimony. With Daubert coming in on July 1, there is no well settled interpretation in FL. Most MC questions are based on actual Supreme Court cases and FL won't have any for the new standard. It is hard to imagine them testing us on a topic with such a big recent change. They can only try to trick us by slipping in opinion testimony so many times.

I also think they may want to stay away from as much criminal stuff as possible because of the Zimmerman trial. I can't imagine the FL Bar liking the attention.

Essay Predictions:

1. Contracts / Secured Transactions
2. Real Property / FL Con Law / (Secured Transactions option 2)
3. Criminal Law / just kidding... Torts / Professional Conduct

We know that one of the new subjects will be tested. Dependency was maybe tested in February. I also thing delinquency will just be added into the procedure MC questions. That gives us secured transactions, commercial paper. While I know professionalism is new too, it is an expansion of professional conduct that is pretty broad and I just mention it briefly in almost any ethics related question to scrape up a few extra points. I'm still transitioning from another bar where essays have a total of 30 points to Florida's 100 point scale.

Of secured transaction (UCC9) and commercial paper (UCC3), UCC9 is my pick. Much easier to combine UCC9 with another topic as an intertwined story. UCC3 would almost need to have a separate story like buyer paid with check, seller lost, finder changed $20 to $2000, bank paid. UCC9 can more easily wind around a story like buyer took a secured loan, had AAC clause, also had a mortgage from a different lender, also had a PMSI on inventory, someone missed filing date. UCC9 just works so well with contracts that I think that is how they will give it to us. UCC9 can also go into property but related to a fixture vs mortgage and how homestead protection against forced sale would apply (glad I'm writing this because I'm not sure how a PMSI in a fixture works with homestead if it is not in the personal property exception... thoughts?)

Homestead rarely misses an exam recently and, as others have mentioned, property has never missed more then 2 in a row. Obviously a combination that works well together and, as discussed above, another place to fit UCC9 in. In February FL Con Law only played a minor role in family law jurisdiction that many probably missed and only discussed the UCCJEA. FL Con Law has only played a minor role twice and only missed one administration of the past 8.

They need a place to test professional conduct and I believe property and contracts are needed to tag on homestead and UCC9. It's a toss up here for torts, trusts, and family law, all of which are good places to test professional conduct. Torts is my choice here. In particular, medical malpractice. It is a good place for the "yankee go home" points, never specifically tested before and also a good way for them to force us to discuss punitive damages, which they seem to love. The one problem is that it also had some recent changes but not as to the procedure that we would likely be tested on. Also a good way to test on survival and wrongful death as they too have some good Florida distinctions. I'm just happy I can just glance over most of the substantive Florida tort distinctions since most were tested in February!

This removes only trusts and family law from the essay topics tested. Trusts is an on again / off again subject and I believe it is currently off again with fitting in the new topics. While family law is a current trend, other topics have been skipped to much to keep family law in the mix for this administration. I'll still be

Comments? Questions? Concerns?

It's a lot to read but writing it really helped me understand where the exam could go.

If you all just ignore my post, good luck on the exam!



I can't see them testing Contracts three straight administrations. The last time they did it was 02-03. UCC 9 blends in perfectly with Real Property and I fully expect that. Homestead was heavily tested last July but I expect some sort of Con Law on this exam. I would love if they did Crim Pro/Con Law like they have in the past but i think thats a pipe dream. I am thinking #1 Real Propery/UCC 9, #2 Torts (negligence with a Good Samaritan & Med Mal question like they love to do). And #3 either Trusts or Fl Con Law. If its Trust then thats where they add PR. If its Con Law then PR goes with Torts.

As far a the MC, I am convinced Evidence will be on there. Even if the expert opinion questions were written before the law change, all of them will have a Daubert answer choice already.

rnf1292
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby rnf1292 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:05 am

What will the Daubert answer be versus a Frye answer? And why do I feel like I'm the only one that doesn't know about this change?

cruzgator
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby cruzgator » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:53 am

The Daubert answer will just follow the FRE exactly. So just answer it like an MBE question.

andrew01
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby andrew01 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:53 am

cruzgator wrote:I can't see them testing Contracts three straight administrations. The last time they did it was 02-03. UCC 9 blends in perfectly with Real Property and I fully expect that. Homestead was heavily tested last July but I expect some sort of Con Law on this exam. I would love if they did Crim Pro/Con Law like they have in the past but i think thats a pipe dream. I am thinking #1 Real Propery/UCC 9, #2 Torts (negligence with a Good Samaritan & Med Mal question like they love to do). And #3 either Trusts or Fl Con Law. If its Trust then thats where they add PR. If its Con Law then PR goes with Torts.

As far a the MC, I am convinced Evidence will be on there. Even if the expert opinion questions were written before the law change, all of them will have a Daubert answer choice already.


I believe this would be 5 administrations with Contracts on it but Contracts is a majority of what attorneys do and applies to almost every other subject in some way or another.

Your essay ideas could be right too. Since February only had a smidgen of FL Con Law, I would not be surprised if we got it for a full essay. Torts + Med Mal + Good Samaritan + PR is a lot, even for a FL Bar essay, unless they do it as an "answer the following X questions" instead of "discuss everything possible under the sun but we won't give you points if we didn't think of it, even if it does apply." I'm just convinced it won't be UCC3 or family law. Too many other topics ripe for testing to keep testing the high scoring family law.

cruzgator wrote:The Daubert answer will just follow the FRE exactly. So just answer it like an MBE question.


Exactly why I don't think they will put it on. We already have 33 questions on evidence. Why ask us more about the few evidence distinctions when wills an business associations are still very Florida specific?

cruzgator
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Re: Florida Bar Exam Predictions?

Postby cruzgator » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:41 pm

I can see your point, but under that rationale, evidence will never be tested again. According to Kaplan, contracts has been tested in 4 of the last 5. As far as Torts goes, I have seen that same fact pattern on two different essays. I think maybe only one had a PR issue though. But it can be as easy as a 30 day rule issue. But maybe they put a PR issue on Property.




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