Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

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RodneyBoonfield
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:21 pm

^ This will be a bonus for you because neither you nor anyone else taking the test will know the answer, so it reduces the overall amount of material that you have to actually be responsible for. Just my 2 cents.

BlameTrain
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby BlameTrain » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:24 pm

I don't understand how I can continually do so poorly on the easy BarBri question sets yet clear their goals for the harder ones.

de5igual
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby de5igual » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:27 pm

BlameTrain wrote:I don't understand how I can continually do so poorly on the easy BarBri question sets yet clear their goals for the harder ones.


I bet if you made flash cards and memorized the elements verbatim per barbri, your mpq sets 1-2 will go up.

BlameTrain
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby BlameTrain » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:43 pm

f0bolous wrote:
BlameTrain wrote:I don't understand how I can continually do so poorly on the easy BarBri question sets yet clear their goals for the harder ones.


I bet if you made flash cards and memorized the elements verbatim per barbri, your mpq sets 1-2 will go up.


Already made the flash cards and memorize as much as could in one go around. Trying to minimize the amount of verbatim memorization I do right at the end. I think I overthink the easy questions looking for traps or just make stupid mistakes.

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lightsandbuzz
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby lightsandbuzz » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:27 pm

BlameTrain wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
BlameTrain wrote:I don't understand how I can continually do so poorly on the easy BarBri question sets yet clear their goals for the harder ones.


I bet if you made flash cards and memorized the elements verbatim per barbri, your mpq sets 1-2 will go up.


Already made the flash cards and memorize as much as could in one go around. Trying to minimize the amount of verbatim memorization I do right at the end. I think I overthink the easy questions looking for traps or just make stupid mistakes.


I do this ALL THE TIME. It's so frustrating.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:22 pm

There is way too much damn material to memorize. Seriously.

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nevdash
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby nevdash » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:45 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:There is way too much damn material to memorize. Seriously.

Seriously. At some point, mnemonics aren't even valuable anymore because you have too many mnemonics to memorize.

mness
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby mness » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:38 pm

Is there any place to buy real, recent MBE questions? The Kaplan questions are often so long and convoluted that I don't think it's really helping me prepare.

kaiser
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby kaiser » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:59 pm

nevdash wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:There is way too much damn material to memorize. Seriously.

Seriously. At some point, mnemonics aren't even valuable anymore because you have too many mnemonics to memorize.


I need a mnemonic to remember all my mnemonics

NYstate
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby NYstate » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:11 pm

kaiser wrote:
nevdash wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:There is way too much damn material to memorize. Seriously.

Seriously. At some point, mnemonics aren't even valuable anymore because you have too many mnemonics to memorize.


I need a mnemonic to remember all my mnemonics


Maybe you need to take a break and enjoy the holiday.

Just try to remember this isn't a law school exam and you don't have to know everything. Don't freak out about memorizing everything.

Stinson
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby Stinson » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:14 pm

BlameTrain wrote:I don't understand how I can continually do so poorly on the easy BarBri question sets yet clear their goals for the harder ones.


MPQ 3's have been the sweet spot for all my sets. It's not just about memorization of the law, it's also getting to know the fact patterns in the question sets a bit. MPQ1 is a first crack; even if you know the law well, you can get tripped up by how the questions are asked or not focus on the right things. After reading the answer explanations I usually do better.

Also, yes, enjoy July 4. If you were going to fail, studying on July 4 won't make you pass, and if you were going to pass taking off July 4 won't cause you to fail.

lukertin
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby lukertin » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:15 pm

Tip 1 -- don't second guess yourself
Tip 2 -- don't try to out think the question
Tip 3 -- it's an easy test

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EijiMiyake
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby EijiMiyake » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:58 pm

This question is going to betray the depth of my preparation thus far:
For BarBri folks - where do you find the target number for each of the problem sets? Is the MBE preview book supposed to have more realistic questions?

I've been reviewing and trying to memorize for the past 2 weeks, but have just now started to do questions. Oops. (also, I'm now terrified.)

Stinson
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby Stinson » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:04 pm

There's a page in the very beginning of the MPQ book entitled "MPQ goals" or something. In general, it's something like 60-67% for 1 and 2, 56-60% for 3 and 4, and around 50-56% for 5 and 6.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:11 pm

NYstate wrote:
kaiser wrote:
nevdash wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:There is way too much damn material to memorize. Seriously.

Seriously. At some point, mnemonics aren't even valuable anymore because you have too many mnemonics to memorize.


I need a mnemonic to remember all my mnemonics


Maybe you need to take a break and enjoy the holiday.

Just try to remember this isn't a law school exam and you don't have to know everything. Don't freak out about memorizing everything.

I'm going to hop into this thread for a couple minutes to second NYstate's advice here and try to throw some reassurance out there to everyone who is on edge.

I took the NY exam last July, and a year ago I was burying myself in MPQ questions, flashcards, and practice essays. I was neurotic and stressed out beyond belief. I was convinced that somehow, despite generally always doing fine at these types of things, I was going to be the one person who failed because I just didn't learn that one Subject X well enough, or because I just happened to get 35% on some Subject Y MPQ set after coming so close to finally almost reaching the goal score in a prior one and fearing that I was regressing. And I sure as shit was not happy that I kept getting terrible graded essay scores that indicated I was nowhere close to passing. I probably felt like a lot of you do today. And, like a lot of you probably are, I was sick of hearing people casually say "you'll be fine - if I passed, anyone can!" as if that somehow reduced the pressure, rather than added to it.

I think it would help for you all to know that 95% of the people who took the bar before you were just as stressed out as you are now, even if we'll never let on to it now that we've passed. It's easy for us to look back and say "oh, well fuck, I didn't need to freak out like that" and then tell you guys not to stress knowing what we know now, but the reality is that we still would have because everybody has the fear of being that one person in your class who doesn't pass in the end. I get that feeling. So here are a couple things I'll throw out there:

1.) Quit focusing on your BarBri progress bar. You all know this already, but it doesn't mean shit other than serve as a way to terrorize you to into passing by far more than is necessary so as to (i) not waste BarBri's money by taking the course again and (ii) lower any chance that BarBri has to decrease the "percentage of passing bar exam takers" percentage they get to advertise. And, while you're at it, quit comparing your progress bar to other peoples' progress bars. That's stupid and pointless.

2.) When you get into the final couple weeks, don't beat yourself up if there are things that you think you once knew that have slipped your mind. Use that as an opportunity to refresh your memory and then move on. The reason this is a 2-month process is because your brain will never be able to hold everything you learn on the first round, and the questions you are doing are there to reinforce and remind you of concepts that will inevitably slip. That's the entire point. Think of it as a good thing that you got that reminder.

3.) Fuck the CMR. Seriously, you don't need it. If there's a question that comes from there (which would probably be less than 2% of questions, if any at all - we had none that I can recall, but I'm sure there were maybe 1-2 that weren't in the lecture outlines), less than 1% of the studiers will have read that particular section of the CMR. It is a waste of your time, and it's a CYA for BarBri. The big tomes they provide should be fire kindling.

4.) But Flight, what if I don't know non-major Subject X well enough on test day? What if I just don't understand Concept Y in major Subject Z? You'll be fine. I think one of the most reassuring things I heard was that I had friends who had taken the exam before and went into the test simply not knowing entire subject areas yet still killed the exam, but I didn't really believe it until I had to do it. When it came time for me to take it, I didn't know Commercial Paper or Secured Transactions at all because I didn't think it was worth my time studying those instead of reinforcing major subjects. I was maybe 60% comfortable with NY Practice, but almost half the subject I simply was going to (and did) make up on the spot. And there were sizable holes in every other major subject. But I was fine, and so were the countless thousands of people who have had to do the same thing in the past. And guess what else? You're going to get to do it as well, so learn to be comfortable resigning yourself to that fact.

It's important to remember that there are so many opportunities for points throughout the exam (and particularly the essays), so if you get stuck not knowing the BLL for a Jurisdiction issue that is 1/4 of one of the five questions but you can still IRAC it and make up some law that doesn't sound completely unreasonable, you'll probably collect 1/3 or 1/2 a point instead of 2/3 or 1. And that's a great outcome. For 99.99% of bar exam takers, it is impossible to know everything. Give up on that dream and feel comfortable learning what you can as well as you can. If you're the 0.01% that has learned everything there is to know for the exam, you're an idiot for wasting your time doing so. Congratulations.

5.) Try to get your hands on BarBri's 2-day mini review course that is offered at the end. Sometimes BarBri gives it out for free if they've had technical issues or if they've done a terrible job returning essays on time, so it might be worth calling if they've been anywhere as atrocious as they were when I took the exam. It's a great way to focus on the most frequently tested issues, and I would say 75% of our exam issues were covered in it.

6.) BarBri's essay grading is a joke. Don't pay attention to the grade you get because they're wildly inconsistent among graders (and that's if you even get your grades back in time to use them to improve before the test in the first place). Focus instead on feeling comfortable quickly IRAC'ing issues, doing a brief analysis of law and facts, concluding, and then moving on. As you improve your understanding of the BLL in the final couple weeks, you'll find you'll start feeling much more comfortable with the essays.

7.) Figure out what studying method works for you. I was a flashcard person. I used an app that let me put my flashcards on my computer/phone so I could take them all with me anywhere, and it was a great decision. It took a solid 3 weeks to get them all made, but it was super helpful for me to put them together and then to be able to refresh whichever subject I needed anywhere I was.

I have another friend who didn't do flashcards, but instead would do 2x50 MPQ mixed sets every morning for the final 3 weeks to help him get continue to practice those questions and hone his understanding of the BLL. He crushed it.

I have another friend who typed up outlines and would read through them and then quiz herself and write things out on a board. She passed by miles.

The point here is that, just like law school, there is no right or wrong way to do it. Figure out what you think will make you feel the most comfortable come time for the exam, and go for it. People have passed using all sorts of methods, and you will too.

8.)
lukertin wrote:Tip 1 -- don't second guess yourself
Tip 2 -- don't try to out think the question
Tip 3 -- it's an easy test

NYstate wrote:Just try to remember this isn't a law school exam and you don't have to know everything. Don't freak out about memorizing everything.

You will be giving this same advice soon enough, because it's the right advice. It may not seem like it now that you're stressing out three weeks in advance of the exam (thinking "but no guys, not me - I'm legitimately screwed here"), but it is. You're not going to know everything. The test is a general competency test, and if you don't know it you can count on the fact that 70-99% (depending on the question) of other takers won't know it either. Bombing part of one essay will not sink you. Bombing part of two essays will not sink you. Bombing an entire essay probably won't sink you.

Just do the best you can, and strategically allocate your time to the areas where you'll get the greatest returns on your time. Study hard and take it seriously, but the worst thing you can do to yourself is to over-stress to the point where you burn yourself out - I very nearly did that, so I can attest to how difficult it is to just say "fuck it, I'll be fine" and step away.

But you all will be fine, and it will be over before you know it (which I know isn't comforting now, but it will be). And hopefully you'll have a bar trip ahead of you to help you forget every stupid, bullshit difference between MPC arson and New York arson for as long as you live.

Best of luck, everyone. You're almost there.

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tfer2222
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby tfer2222 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:01 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
I'm going to hop into this thread for a couple minutes to second NYstate's advice here and try to throw some reassurance out there to everyone who is on edge.



^^that was a great post. thank you very much for that. needed to hear it (especially from someone who seemed to be exactly where I am last summer)

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iShotFirst
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Re: Vent Your Bar Examination Frustrations Here

Postby iShotFirst » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:08 pm

tfer2222 wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
I'm going to hop into this thread for a couple minutes to second NYstate's advice here and try to throw some reassurance out there to everyone who is on edge.



^^that was a great post. thank you very much for that. needed to hear it (especially from someone who seemed to be exactly where I am last summer)


Seconded... this is the type of post I need to read every day before I sleep to prevent the constant bar exam-related nightmares.




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