PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

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worldtraveler
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:23 pm

Tanicius wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Law school doesn't teach you shit.

Who says you go to a specific law school for the education? Why shouldn't someone in PI get the benefits of going to the school that provides more options? (The "just" in that sentence is really obnoxious.)


This is the more important point. Lots of PI orgs select from top schools and use it as a means to separate the wheat resumes from the chaff resumes. A talented person for a specific PI job at a lower school is fighting an uphill battle. In that situation, the job probably goes to a candidate with less aptitude and drive for the work who just wants it for the future lateral opportunities. It's not how it should be, and it's not how I'd hire, but that's how it is for a lot of jobs. Without PSLF, I would not have gunned for pubdefense at a T-14, and neither would I have put all my eggs in the scholarship basket at a T-25. The PD hiring track was ultra competitive this year, and it was because PSLF meant that lots more qualifies people could aim for it.


There are a lot of PI jobs that are only accessible to people from very elite schools. My job is one of those. If the DOJ, State Dept, UN, and elite NGOs continue to only recruit from top schools (and let's face it, they will) and there is no PSLF, then only the very wealthy will be able to accept those jobs. Given that a lot of the elite jobs put people in very powerful positions to shape policy and laws affecting everyone, personally I think it's a little scary if those jobs can only go to the wealthy.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Bronx Bum » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:24 pm

PI=Personal Injury?

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Tanicius
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Tanicius » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:26 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:PI=Personal Injury?


Property that is Intellectual.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Bronx Bum » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:29 pm

I would do ANYTHING for you PSLF dudes to not get it and me get on PAYE.

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Cal Trask
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Cal Trask » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:I would do ANYTHING for you PSLF dudes to not get it and me get on PAYE.


Is there no possible situation where these two aren't mutually exclusive?

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dresden doll
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby dresden doll » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:48 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'm willing to trade me getting PAYE for you losing PLIF

So you're willing to advance your self interest over our self interest? Shocker.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:53 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:I would do ANYTHING for you PSLF dudes to not get it and me get on PAYE.

You're a prince. This added so much to the conversation, thank you.

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dresden doll
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby dresden doll » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:56 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Bronx Bum wrote:I would do ANYTHING for you PSLF dudes to not get it and me get on PAYE.

You're a prince. This added so much to the conversation, thank you.

Yeah, this. Jesus, knock it off.

09042014
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:55 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:DF you seemed to be in agreement with patogordo about making minimum PAYE payments early on and taking advantage of the forgiveness option, but in another thread you said you were putting everything you make into loans. What changed?


I'm not PAYE eligible unless they expand it, and our assumption was the tax bomb would be fixed. That legislation fix never happened, so I'm going to plan B, actually pay this shit off.

09042014
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:56 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
There are more unemployed law grads than grads who go into PI. No incentive needed.

And society receives no benefit from paying 53k a year to send someone to GWU instead of University of DC, if the person is just going to do immigration law.


This is exactly where you are wrong.


Law school doesn't teach you shit.

Who says you go to a specific law school for the education? Why shouldn't someone in PI get the benefits of going to the school that provides more options? (The "just" in that sentence is really obnoxious.)


If you want to Pay for the whatever benefits you receive, go right ahead. That doesn't mean it's a totally retarded policy choice for society to pay 300k for you to go to Harvard law, when kids in Detroit can't even fucking read.

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anyriotgirl
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby anyriotgirl » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:If you want to Pay for the whatever benefits you receive, go right ahead. That doesn't mean it's a totally retarded policy choice for society to pay 300k for you to go to Harvard law, when kids in Detroit can't even fucking read.


and who the fuck is going to teach them if the teachers lose their loan forgiveness too?

09042014
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:59 pm

Tanicius wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Law school doesn't teach you shit.

Who says you go to a specific law school for the education? Why shouldn't someone in PI get the benefits of going to the school that provides more options? (The "just" in that sentence is really obnoxious.)


This is the more important point. Lots of PI orgs select from top schools and use it as a means to separate the wheat resumes from the chaff resumes. A talented person for a specific PI job at a lower school is fighting an uphill battle. In that situation, the job probably goes to a candidate with less aptitude and drive for the work who just wants it for the future lateral opportunities. It's not how it should be, and it's not how I'd hire, but that's how it is for a lot of jobs. Without PSLF, I would not have gunned for pubdefense at a T-14, and neither would I have put all my eggs in the scholarship basket at a T-25. The PD hiring track was ultra competitive this year, and it was because PSLF meant that lots more qualifies people could aim for it.


If you can't see the huge error in this thinking, you shouldn't be repping people.

09042014
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:00 pm

anyriotgirl wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:If you want to Pay for the whatever benefits you receive, go right ahead. That doesn't mean it's a totally retarded policy choice for society to pay 300k for you to go to Harvard law, when kids in Detroit can't even fucking read.


and who the fuck is going to teach them if the teachers lose their loan forgiveness too?


1) UG loans are well within the limits

2) There are like 3 times as many people who want to be teachers than jobs.

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dresden doll
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby dresden doll » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:If you want to Pay for the whatever benefits you receive, go right ahead. That doesn't mean it's a totally retarded policy choice for society to pay 300k for you to go to Harvard law, when kids in Detroit can't even fucking read.


Any PI-minded 0L who has done their homework will know that, generally speaking, PI likes to recruit from the T14s about as much as firms do, to speak nothing of the fact that T14 kids are vastly more likely to be awarded Skadden, EJW, Kirkland and other assorted fellowships (read: pretty much the ONLY viable route into an entry level PI job post-2007).

I'm not going down the rabbit hole debating funding HLS 0Ls vs. Detroit reading programs, but let's not pretend that people choose HLS over a TTT for shits and giggles.

09042014
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:06 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'm willing to trade me getting PAYE for you losing PLIF

So you're willing to advance your self interest over our self interest? Shocker.


Someone has to pay for you guys to play humanitarian.

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dresden doll
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby dresden doll » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:09 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'm willing to trade me getting PAYE for you losing PLIF

So you're willing to advance your self interest over our self interest? Shocker.


Someone has to pay for you guys to play humanitarian.


Yes, that's clearly why you favor a system that furthers your financial interests.

Point being, that statement is about as meaningful as saying: I'd rather not eat shit than eat shit.

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LSL
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby LSL » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:15 am

DF, come on with this trolling, man. Most people don't think PSLF is high-end prostitute awesome. The sentiment is more that, yes, obviously there are some bad incentives, but don't fuck us for being the last in line for the shitty incentives train. Jesus fucking Christ, fix the other shit first. Because PSLF is WAYYYY the fuck down the list on what needs to be fixed in our shithole higher ed system. And if you fix THAT monster fucking problem that should have been fixed yesterday, you'll most likely nip alot of this problem too. At least this way there is more opportunity for people to go to a good school and pay a knight's rather than king's ransom for it.

Edit: fucking auxiliary verbs, how do they work?
Last edited by LSL on Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:44 am

Here's a fucking tip: You aren't fucking special. The value of the time you dedicate to social justice is worth virtually nothing above your next best replacement, assuming you even are the best available and didn't just luck into your position. If you think social justice is so fucking important, maximize your earnings potential in whatever domain you legitimately think can do that. If you've gone to law school, then do private shit. Then fucking donate your money to social justice. You can't call it trolling every time somebody calls you out for complaining about your salary in the job that you chose that pays less than you could have earned, but is easier to do and makes you feel like a prince. Your need to tell the world via your resume, your car's bumper stickers, and your unshaven vagina that you're morally superior should obviously mean you get less money. And worldtraverler's incredibly offensive and retarded point about there being a problem of people pursuing social justice from privileged families is inane. To suggest that someone going into public interest bc they can afford it is more likely morally inferior than a poor guy pursuing it is bullshit. You made no claim about the quality of student going down. If anything, those people will have a better sense of what is actually right & fair, and won't just immediately support policies that seem to benefit people who look like them. See: minority groups all vote the same.

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Tanicius
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Tanicius » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:52 am

Hipster but Athletic wrote:Here's a fucking tip: You aren't fucking special. The value of the time you dedicate to social justice is worth virtually nothing above your next best replacement, assuming you even are the best available and didn't just luck into your position. If you think social justice is so fucking important, maximize your earnings potential in whatever domain you legitimately think can do that. If you've gone to law school, then do private shit. Then fucking donate your money to social justice. You can't call it trolling every time somebody calls you out for complaining about your salary in the job that you chose that pays less than you could have earned, but is easier to do and makes you feel like a prince. Your need to tell the world via your resume, your car's bumper stickers, and your unshaven vagina that you're morally superior should obviously mean you get less money. And worldtraverler's incredibly offensive and retarded point about there being a problem of people pursuing social justice from privileged families is inane. To suggest that someone going into public interest bc they can afford it is more likely morally inferior than a poor guy pursuing it is bullshit. You made no claim about the quality of student going down. If anything, those people will have a better sense of what is actually right & fair, and won't just immediately support policies that seem to benefit people who look like them. See: minority groups all vote the same.


The reason we think you're trolling is because of how ridiculously wrong you are (see the bold). It's like you didn't even watch the trailer for Gideon's Army.
Last edited by Tanicius on Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bikeflip
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Bikeflip » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:54 am

Cross poast

Relevant: Table S–9. Mandatory and Receipt Proposals

S-9 on pg 30 wrote:Provide exclusion from income for student loan forgiveness for students in certain income- based or income-contingent repayment programs who have completed payment obligations.

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:06 am

Tanicius wrote:
Hipster but Athletic wrote:Here's a fucking tip: You aren't fucking special. The value of the time you dedicate to social justice is worth virtually nothing above your next best replacement, assuming you even are the best available and didn't just luck into your position. If you think social justice is so fucking important, maximize your earnings potential in whatever domain you legitimately think can do that. If you've gone to law school, then do private shit. Then fucking donate your money to social justice. You can't call it trolling every time somebody calls you out for complaining about your salary in the job that you chose that pays less than you could have earned, but is easier to do and makes you feel like a prince. Your need to tell the world via your resume, your car's bumper stickers, and your unshaven vagina that you're morally superior should obviously mean you get less money. And worldtraverler's incredibly offensive and retarded point about there being a problem of people pursuing social justice from privileged families is inane. To suggest that someone going into public interest bc they can afford it is more likely morally inferior than a poor guy pursuing it is bullshit. You made no claim about the quality of student going down. If anything, those people will have a better sense of what is actually right & fair, and won't just immediately support policies that seem to benefit people who look like them. See: minority groups all vote the same.


The reason we think you're trolling is because of how ridiculously wrong you are (see the bold). It's like you didn't even watch the trailer for Gideon's Army.

I guess you're trying to be funny, but I also don't really get how a documentary about people who have convinced themselves they're doing important work is at all relevant. I also don't get why people can't do social justice 11 years out of law school.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:27 am

Bikeflip wrote:Cross poast

Relevant: Table S–9. Mandatory and Receipt Proposals

S-9 on pg 30 wrote:Provide exclusion from income for student loan forgiveness for students in certain income- based or income-contingent repayment programs who have completed payment obligations.

Says it would add just $5 million to the deficit between 2023 and 2024. That's like two classes of NYU PI people. It's also weird that it doesn't have any fiscal impact until 2023.

09042014
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby 09042014 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:09 pm

I'm not really trolling. I wouldn't retroactively fuck people relying on it now. But there is ZERO evidence that paying 300k so Hippy Hillary can get a NYU education in LAW is even remotely a good use of funds. It's welfare for the privileged.

Also, making it 25 years still means you won't pay it off. It just means you'll pay more of it off. You would still be able to afford to do PI. You just have to pay like 5% of your income to student loans. That's not asking too much, especially compared to the loans the rest of society has.

Unlimited 10 year PLIF is a bad policy. Objectively.

Big Dog
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Big Dog » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:12 pm

I'm not PAYE eligible unless they expand it, and our assumption was the tax bomb would be fixed. That legislation fix never happened, so I'm going to plan B, actually pay this shit off.


Smart plan, DF. (I never understood the fairly tale land of TLS that just assumed that that the tax bomb would go away. It very well might, but one is naive to plan on it.)

and who the fuck is going to teach them if the teachers lose their loan forgiveness too?


There are plenty of inexpensive instate options in Michigan. No future teacher needs to attend an Ivy to top-ranked private LAC or Michigan-Ann Arbor.
Last edited by Big Dog on Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: PAYE Legislation Thread- Pepper Anus Yuppie Eleemosynaries

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:15 pm

Big Dog wrote:
I'm not PAYE eligible unless they expand it, and our assumption was the tax bomb would be fixed. That legislation fix never happened, so I'm going to plan B, actually pay this shit off.


Smart plan, DF. (I never understood the fairly tale land of TLS that just assumed that that the tax bomb would go away. It very well might, but one is naive to plan on it.)

The real question is whether it's worth it to still take advantage of PAYE and 20 year forgiveness even if the tax bomb stays in place.




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