KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
Pokemon
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:04 pm

I like how Fromm made a big deal for the zone of danger stuff in strict liability due to inherently dangerous activity... yet the zone of danger concept is nowhere in the outline.

User avatar
Mr. Pink
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:08 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:11 pm

LeDique wrote:Does anyone else feel like the qbank questions they're getting have changed? At around 1200 done, I felt like my questions started getting a lot shorter.


I was thinking this last night as I did a set of 50.... most were pretty short and sweet.

User avatar
JenDarby
Posts: 13324
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:02 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:17 pm

Fromm hosted these live lectures regarding the simulated final at Fordham.

Apparently the NY average was 115 and the Fordham average was 118.

Fromm said you add +15 for standard scale and +10 for Level 1s (no clue what this means unless it means hard questions). This made the scaled average at Fordham 143 (even though he added 25 to 118 and got 142).

Pokemon
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:34 pm

Do you mean the final MBE?

Also, a little strange that apparently we should add 15 points to final MBE, but 25 to the additional MBE.

User avatar
silky bruh
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:17 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby silky bruh » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:35 pm

Pokemon wrote:Do you mean the final MBE?

Also, a little strange that apparently we should add 15 points to final MBE, but 25 to the additional MBE.


If the additional MBE is more difficult than the final I don't think I'm going to do it. Need some positive reinforcement at this point.

User avatar
JenDarby
Posts: 13324
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:02 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:36 pm

Yea it was a simulated final MBE. Fordham paid Kaplan for all students to have access to the qbank and this 3 day simulated final MBE and live lectures by Fromm,

User avatar
LeDique
Posts: 12772
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:10 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby LeDique » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:40 pm

Pokemon wrote:Do you mean the final MBE?

Also, a little strange that apparently we should add 15 points to final MBE, but 25 to the additional MBE.


I thought this was bizarre too, and I think it's a remnant of the old "30 points to the final" doctrine. Which is confusing to me because it sure seems to me like it should be +30 on the final still as it needs to both be adjusted for difficult and scaling. The idea that the final is equivalently difficult to the real MBE is something I'm not buying. Though I guess you get an extra 10 questions that count…

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bdubs » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:43 pm

JenDarby wrote:Yea it was a simulated final MBE. Fordham paid Kaplan for all students to have access to the qbank and this 3 day simulated final MBE and live lectures by Fromm,


That is really nice. My school is super cheap and would probably never do anything like that. They provide basically zero bar support because they just expect that 90%+ will pass. Doesn't matter that we paid insanely high tuition to the school or anything. I guess we have a greater diversity of jurisdictions, but at least some MBE support would be nice.

Pokemon
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:44 pm

LeDique wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Do you mean the final MBE?

Also, a little strange that apparently we should add 15 points to final MBE, but 25 to the additional MBE.


I thought this was bizarre too, and I think it's a remnant of the old "30 points to the final" doctrine. Which is confusing to me because it sure seems to me like it should be +30 on the final still as it needs to both be adjusted for difficult and scaling. The idea that the final is equivalently difficult to the real MBE is something I'm not buying. Though I guess you get an extra 10 questions that count…



I agree. But apparently, the additional MBE is supposed to be +25 cause this was confirmed by e-mail from a TLS poster. So either they have made the final really easy, which makes no sense as you say, or they are trying to keep people from ignoring MBE if they think they did well.

User avatar
JenDarby
Posts: 13324
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:02 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:45 pm

Fromm said to add 25 to the final as well - that along with the low averages was the point of my post lol. I mean maybe it's incorrect, but we were just told this today.

shock259
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:50 pm

WHY ALL THESE MIND GAMES KAPLAN?! :P

objctnyrhnr
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:44 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby objctnyrhnr » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:59 pm

so I am not gonna talk up fordham or anything, but I think it's pretty accepted that fordham is a considerably above average school with a considerably average bar passage rate.

if fordham's avg on the final was 118, are we really going to buy that the average of EVERY KAPLAN TAKER'S FINAL SCORE was literally 7 points higher? guys, i think kaplan has been lying to us the whole time...about a lot of things.

did i read those posts above correctly?

Pokemon
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:02 pm

You are really focusing your energy on the wrong thing.

User avatar
lisjjen
Posts: 1242
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:19 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby lisjjen » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:06 pm

shock259 wrote:WHY ALL THESE MIND GAMES KAPLAN?! :P


This. This has been driving me crazy.

User avatar
Mr. Pink
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:08 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:50 pm

Pokemon wrote:
LeDique wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Do you mean the final MBE?

Also, a little strange that apparently we should add 15 points to final MBE, but 25 to the additional MBE.


I thought this was bizarre too, and I think it's a remnant of the old "30 points to the final" doctrine. Which is confusing to me because it sure seems to me like it should be +30 on the final still as it needs to both be adjusted for difficult and scaling. The idea that the final is equivalently difficult to the real MBE is something I'm not buying. Though I guess you get an extra 10 questions that count…



I agree. But apparently, the additional MBE is supposed to be +25 cause this was confirmed by e-mail from a TLS poster. So either they have made the final really easy, which makes no sense as you say, or they are trying to keep people from ignoring MBE if they think they did well.


My understanding from the kaplan reps is that the Final MBE is more reflective of an actual MBE- mixed easy questions and hard questions... and that the real MBE adds 10-20 points, so add 15 as an average.

The additional MBE on the other hand has more difficult questions because at this point, there is no need to waste time with the easier questions. They want you to do the tougher ones down the stretch, hence adding 25 to get a more realistic score.

User avatar
LeDique
Posts: 12772
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:10 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby LeDique » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:59 pm

Mr. Pink wrote:My understanding from the kaplan reps is that the Final MBE is more reflective of an actual MBE- mixed easy questions and hard questions... and that the real MBE adds 10-20 points, so add 15 as an average.

The additional MBE on the other hand has more difficult questions because at this point, there is no need to waste time with the easier questions. They want you to do the tougher ones down the stretch, hence adding 25 to get a more realistic score.


Yeah, but I'm not buying the premise that "the Final MBE is more reflective of an actual MBE." If it is, then Kaplan has been wasting my time with easier questions this whole time. They also used the "no need to waste time with easier questions" line about the final MBE anyway, so Kaplan is really just all over the map here.

User avatar
northwood
Posts: 4872
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby northwood » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:10 pm

LeDique wrote:
Mr. Pink wrote:My understanding from the kaplan reps is that the Final MBE is more reflective of an actual MBE- mixed easy questions and hard questions... and that the real MBE adds 10-20 points, so add 15 as an average.

The additional MBE on the other hand has more difficult questions because at this point, there is no need to waste time with the easier questions. They want you to do the tougher ones down the stretch, hence adding 25 to get a more realistic score.


Yeah, but I'm not buying the premise that "the Final MBE is more reflective of an actual MBE." If it is, then Kaplan has been wasting my time with easier questions this whole time. They also used the "no need to waste time with easier questions" line about the final MBE anyway, so Kaplan is really just all over the map here.



ITS THE UNNECESSARY SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU TO STUDY STUDY STUDY STUDY TIME...... ( why that was all in caps is beyond me but maybe to make the effect of being stressed out??)

User avatar
bazinga!
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:14 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:19 pm

guys. UCC 9/3. I'm so screwed.

Ok, back to the outline...gahhhhhh! :evil:

andythefir
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:56 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby andythefir » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:42 pm

I had a mini-freakout today when I came across a list of about 15 practice Qs from the NCBE and only got 5-6 right. I bought one of their 100 Q practice tests ($50!) they say is compiled from real former bars. Good news: I passed, so Kaplan's method does work.

Bad news: some of the law clashes with what Kaplan has said. Specifically, on the final review Fromm said that a search of a car incident to arrest does not include the wingspan of the driver for a warrant or other arrest that does not give probable cause to believe that there is evidence in the car (booze for a DUI, drugs for possession etc.). The NCBE had a very similar question and said the opposite was true: when arresting, even for a warrant, a search incident to arrest includes the back seat of the car.

I'm hesitant to start second guessing Kaplan when I'm this close, but it also seems strange to second guess the NCBE.

Pokemon
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:43 pm

bazinga! wrote:guys. UCC 9/3. I'm so screwed.

Ok, back to the outline...gahhhhhh! :evil:



I have not yet seen that lecture. I figured at this point, I might as well do it on weekend so I remember it better.

Pokemon
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:44 pm

andythefir wrote:I had a mini-freakout today when I came across a list of about 15 practice Qs from the NCBE and only got 5-6 right. I bought one of their 100 Q practice tests ($50!) they say is compiled from real former bars. Good news: I passed, so Kaplan's method does work.

Bad news: some of the law clashes with what Kaplan has said. Specifically, on the final review Fromm said that a search of a car incident to arrest does not include the wingspan of the driver for a warrant or other arrest that does not give probable cause to believe that there is evidence in the car (booze for a DUI, drugs for possession etc.). The NCBE had a very similar question and said the opposite was true: when arresting, even for a warrant, a search incident to arrest includes the back seat of the car.

I'm hesitant to start second guessing Kaplan when I'm this close, but it also seems strange to second guess the NCBE.


Were the questions, harder or easier than Kaplan? Different in any way?

Ps; for the wingspan thing, didn't Fromm say that was like a new rule?

User avatar
JenDarby
Posts: 13324
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:02 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:54 pm

Pokemon wrote:
bazinga! wrote:guys. UCC 9/3. I'm so screwed.

Ok, back to the outline...gahhhhhh! :evil:



I have not yet seen that lecture. I figured at this point, I might as well do it on weekend so I remember it better.

I just had to double check there is no Article 3 commercial paper on NY. A tiny relief I suppose.

andythefir
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:56 am

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby andythefir » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:59 pm

Pokemon wrote:
andythefir wrote:I had a mini-freakout today when I came across a list of about 15 practice Qs from the NCBE and only got 5-6 right. I bought one of their 100 Q practice tests ($50!) they say is compiled from real former bars. Good news: I passed, so Kaplan's method does work.

Bad news: some of the law clashes with what Kaplan has said. Specifically, on the final review Fromm said that a search of a car incident to arrest does not include the wingspan of the driver for a warrant or other arrest that does not give probable cause to believe that there is evidence in the car (booze for a DUI, drugs for possession etc.). The NCBE had a very similar question and said the opposite was true: when arresting, even for a warrant, a search incident to arrest includes the back seat of the car.

I'm hesitant to start second guessing Kaplan when I'm this close, but it also seems strange to second guess the NCBE.


Were the questions, harder or easier than Kaplan? Different in any way?

Ps; for the wingspan thing, didn't Fromm say that was like a new rule?


Kaplan said they gave a disproportionate number of 8-10 difficulty, which is true, but I found a few of the questions on the practice test to be melt-your-face hard (although this might be because I still suck at mortgages, and there were some super tricky mortgage questions). If Kaplan's difficulty goes 8, 8, 10, 8, 9, 7 these questions were more 5, 8, 7, 8, 2, 5, 15.

sidhesadie
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sidhesadie » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:14 pm

Pokemon wrote:
andythefir wrote:I had a mini-freakout today when I came across a list of about 15 practice Qs from the NCBE and only got 5-6 right. I bought one of their 100 Q practice tests ($50!) they say is compiled from real former bars. Good news: I passed, so Kaplan's method does work.

Bad news: some of the law clashes with what Kaplan has said. Specifically, on the final review Fromm said that a search of a car incident to arrest does not include the wingspan of the driver for a warrant or other arrest that does not give probable cause to believe that there is evidence in the car (booze for a DUI, drugs for possession etc.). The NCBE had a very similar question and said the opposite was true: when arresting, even for a warrant, a search incident to arrest includes the back seat of the car.

I'm hesitant to start second guessing Kaplan when I'm this close, but it also seems strange to second guess the NCBE.


Were the questions, harder or easier than Kaplan? Different in any way?

Ps; for the wingspan thing, didn't Fromm say that was like a new rule?


The NCBE questions are mostly fairly old , many of them from the 90's. Crim pro and Con law have had changes.

You can't search the car incident to arrest anymore unless there's probable cause to believe evidence *of crime of arrest* is in it, or if you're going to cite and release the driver back to the car (then it's officer safety). But if you've got them in the patrol car, you can't search the passenger compartment, even wingspan, unless the evidence of crime of arrest exception applies. Arizona v. Gant, y'all. 2009. It's not that new, but the NCBE q probably predated it.

User avatar
bazinga!
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:14 pm

Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:16 pm

Pokemon wrote:
andythefir wrote:I had a mini-freakout today when I came across a list of about 15 practice Qs from the NCBE and only got 5-6 right. I bought one of their 100 Q practice tests ($50!) they say is compiled from real former bars. Good news: I passed, so Kaplan's method does work.

Bad news: some of the law clashes with what Kaplan has said. Specifically, on the final review Fromm said that a search of a car incident to arrest does not include the wingspan of the driver for a warrant or other arrest that does not give probable cause to believe that there is evidence in the car (booze for a DUI, drugs for possession etc.). The NCBE had a very similar question and said the opposite was true: when arresting, even for a warrant, a search incident to arrest includes the back seat of the car.

I'm hesitant to start second guessing Kaplan when I'm this close, but it also seems strange to second guess the NCBE.


Were the questions, harder or easier than Kaplan? Different in any way?

Ps; for the wingspan thing, didn't Fromm say that was like a new rule?


Yeah, I think he said use to be that SITLA meant you could check whatever, wherever including in the car. But now the officer has to be in some sort of reasonable fear, meaning like the defendant could get back in the car and grab a gun. But that that would never happen bc a cop would handcuff the defendant and put him in the back of the car first in the interest of safety, so it negates the need for searching the car. I think I remember from the lectures that if there's a passenger and both are out of the car, the cop can do a sweep of the interior before he lets the passenger get back in the car if he has reason to believe there might be something dangerous or mayyybe (not sure) evidence that could be tossed.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ididntwantsalmon and 3 guests