KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:57 pm

ahduke99 wrote:Like others, I basically got like 10 in a row wrong and then would get 25-30 in a row right, not sure if they designed it to be that way

I got a 140 and the most I ever got incorrect in a row was three. For the most part I got scattered questions incorrect, with strings of two here and there. It's interesting how different people score.

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:15 pm

ahduke99 wrote:I got a 142 and I am freaking out because I guessed on so many of them that I felt like I could've gone either way. I obviously have no problem narrowing it down to two questions, but once I get down to those, often times I feel as if I just pick one or pick the one that "sounds" more complete.

Like others, I basically got like 10 in a row wrong and then would get 25-30 in a row right, not sure if they designed it to be that way

I guess I'll take the additional practice one this weekend or early next week and finish filling out those OneSheets by condensing all the attack outlines into 2-3 pages. I've yet to do more than 4 essays all summer, so I don't know where to start with that. Definitely in panic mode.



With a measly 142, I would panic too.

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:21 pm

LeDique wrote:
JenDarby wrote:On only on question 5 but I DEFINITELY recommend watching the final MBE videos. Even for the questions so far that I answered correctly, Fromm's tips are really helpful and his explanations are better than those provided on the test.


ugh really? i was 100% planning to skip these


That's what I was gonna do too. Then my Kaplan rep emailed us and pleaded us to watch them. I agree with Jen that it was actually extremely helpful. He hits on a lot of different things. It's a good broad over of the MBE topics in general. Plus some random test-taking tips and what not. Also, dude is pretty funny.

ahduke99
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby ahduke99 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:41 pm

The video I watched said the average was 108 and to add 30 points to your score, and the Kaplan rep emailed and said the national average is 125. Which is it? 125 seems pretty high considering 50% were supposed to be the "hard" variety.

I need a 120 on the actual bar to pass.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:43 pm

ahduke99 wrote:The video I watched said the average was 108 and to add 30 points to your score, and the Kaplan rep emailed and said the national average is 125. Which is it? 125 seems pretty high considering 50% were supposed to be the "hard" variety.

I need a 120 on the actual bar to pass.

It's 125 according to Fromm, and you add 15. He said it live this week in NYC.

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:45 pm

125 is the average score on the Kaplan's final MBE? Blah.

semplice
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby semplice » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:47 pm

shock259 wrote:
LeDique wrote:
JenDarby wrote:On only on question 5 but I DEFINITELY recommend watching the final MBE videos. Even for the questions so far that I answered correctly, Fromm's tips are really helpful and his explanations are better than those provided on the test.


ugh really? i was 100% planning to skip these


That's what I was gonna do too. Then my Kaplan rep emailed us and pleaded us to watch them. I agree with Jen that it was actually extremely helpful. He hits on a lot of different things. It's a good broad over of the MBE topics in general. Plus some random test-taking tips and what not. Also, dude is pretty funny.


Just watched the first half of the final MBE review video today, and I agree they're really helpful. I admit I wasn't a fan of Fromm at first, when he popped on screen in that gaudy plaid tie, but I've really warmed up to him. I don't even mind that he apparently wrote all those sneaky little questions. His explanations are clear and straightforward with just the right amount of detail. He's alright by me.

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:49 pm

I'M GETTIN FIRED UP HERE

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:06 pm

semplice wrote:
shock259 wrote:
LeDique wrote:
JenDarby wrote:On only on question 5 but I DEFINITELY recommend watching the final MBE videos. Even for the questions so far that I answered correctly, Fromm's tips are really helpful and his explanations are better than those provided on the test.


ugh really? i was 100% planning to skip these


That's what I was gonna do too. Then my Kaplan rep emailed us and pleaded us to watch them. I agree with Jen that it was actually extremely helpful. He hits on a lot of different things. It's a good broad over of the MBE topics in general. Plus some random test-taking tips and what not. Also, dude is pretty funny.


Just watched the first half of the final MBE review video today, and I agree they're really helpful. I admit I wasn't a fan of Fromm at first, when he popped on screen in that gaudy plaid tie, but I've really warmed up to him. I don't even mind that he apparently wrote all those sneaky little questions. His explanations are clear and straightforward with just the right amount of detail. He's alright by me.

I actually enjoy Fromm and I am finding this useful, but HOW am I only on question 49. I feel like I have been watching this forever already, and I am on 1.5x.

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:15 pm

Is there somewhere on Kaplan where I can find the slides that Fromm is using in his lectures?

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:17 pm

Pokemon wrote:Is there somewhere on Kaplan where I can find the slides that Fromm is using in his lectures?

They're on the syllabus for the day with the lectures.

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bazinga!
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:18 pm

cocoapuffs1 wrote:Didn't exactly do as well as I hoped either, also seems like I'm forgetting things I thought I had down. Is anyone else planning on taking the Additional MBE Practice exam in the next week? I'd planned on it, but not sure I want a shot to my confidence right before the big day...


I'm planning on taking it probably sunday-ish hoping that watching Fromm pays off. Although my biggest worry at this point is addressing readers as "my friends..." based on hearing it approximately once every 15 seconds for the next two days.

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:25 pm

JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Is there somewhere on Kaplan where I can find the slides that Fromm is using in his lectures?

They're on the syllabus for the day with the lectures.


Thanks!! It actually took me a while to find it even after you told me.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:35 pm

Pokemon wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Is there somewhere on Kaplan where I can find the slides that Fromm is using in his lectures?

They're on the syllabus for the day with the lectures.


Thanks!! It actually took me a while to find it even after you told me.

:lol: I was elsewhere on the Kaplan website reviewing the final so I went off memory.

I spent all night watching this review video and I am only at question 61?! There's 5 more hours?! I really do find this helpful, but shoot, I will spend the better part of tomorrow on it.

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:46 pm

JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Is there somewhere on Kaplan where I can find the slides that Fromm is using in his lectures?

They're on the syllabus for the day with the lectures.


Thanks!! It actually took me a while to find it even after you told me.

:lol: I was elsewhere on the Kaplan website reviewing the final so I went off memory.

I spent all night watching this review video and I am only at question 61?! There's 5 more hours?! I really do find this helpful, but shoot, I will spend the better part of tomorrow on it.

Yeah they take FOREVER. I found it helpful to run through the questions I got wrong first and then break and then do the ones I got correct after doing some other more crucial review work.

sidhesadie
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sidhesadie » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:04 am

JenDarby wrote:
shock259 wrote:Are you actually starting each point with an issue statement? I'm starting to think I should do that. I have always written answers (in law school and here) by just stating the rule. By stating the rule that may or may not apply, I'm implying that the issue is whether or not it applies. But maybe it would help to actually just state it? I guess it's only one sentence...

"The issue is whether or not C is liable for intentional infliction of emotional distress."

I feel really silly when I do it, but yes.

My essays end up looking like this:

1. (a) The court should dismiss the motion for summary judgment.

The first issue is whether or not Tom's motion for summary judgment on the issue of X should be dismissed.

(Rule)

(Application)

(conclusion...again.)

I think since basic competency and literacy are being tested here, its beneficial to not have any nuances of any sort lol.



This is what I started doing after I got several 'break down your paragraphs more' comments I do it exactly like that, for every issue and sub issue. I feel RIDICULOUS but it really bumped my scores. I do think it's like this on the bar, too, because my boss at work suggested I do a bunch of essays just to get the format down, because 'it's not even so much what you say as that you adhere exactly to their stupid format". He then rubbed his head like he was still stressed out about it. Considering he passed the bar a long time ago, I think that's saying something.

So every single paragraph/section has this format
The issue is ...
The general rule is....
Here....
Therefore...

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:16 am

JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Is there somewhere on Kaplan where I can find the slides that Fromm is using in his lectures?

They're on the syllabus for the day with the lectures.


Thanks!! It actually took me a while to find it even after you told me.

:lol: I was elsewhere on the Kaplan website reviewing the final so I went off memory.

I spent all night watching this review video and I am only at question 61?! There's 5 more hours?! I really do find this helpful, but shoot, I will spend the better part of tomorrow on it.



It was taking me too long so I started ignoring questions (like 10% of entire exam) that I was certain about.

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:18 am

sidhesadie wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
shock259 wrote:Are you actually starting each point with an issue statement? I'm starting to think I should do that. I have always written answers (in law school and here) by just stating the rule. By stating the rule that may or may not apply, I'm implying that the issue is whether or not it applies. But maybe it would help to actually just state it? I guess it's only one sentence...

"The issue is whether or not C is liable for intentional infliction of emotional distress."

I feel really silly when I do it, but yes.

My essays end up looking like this:

1. (a) The court should dismiss the motion for summary judgment.

The first issue is whether or not Tom's motion for summary judgment on the issue of X should be dismissed.

(Rule)

(Application)

(conclusion...again.)

I think since basic competency and literacy are being tested here, its beneficial to not have any nuances of any sort lol.



This is what I started doing after I got several 'break down your paragraphs more' comments I do it exactly like that, for every issue and sub issue. I feel RIDICULOUS but it really bumped my scores. I do think it's like this on the bar, too, because my boss at work suggested I do a bunch of essays just to get the format down, because 'it's not even so much what you say as that you adhere exactly to their stupid format". He then rubbed his head like he was still stressed out about it. Considering he passed the bar a long time ago, I think that's saying something.

So every single paragraph/section has this format
The issue is ...
The general rule is....
Here....
Therefore...


Lol, I do exactly the same.

The issue is...
Under NY Law...
Here...
As such...

I was even advised to keep each section as one paragraph. Because sometimes for the Application part, I would use two paragraphs.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:10 am

When people are saying they got 140, are you including the 15 or 30 points we are supposed to add or was that your raw score? If it's your raw score, I literally give up. Bye. Went to law school for 3 years, not becoming a lawyer.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby objctnyrhnr » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:34 am

sandcastle45 wrote:When people are saying they got 140, are you including the 15 or 30 points we are supposed to add or was that your raw score? If it's your raw score, I literally give up. Bye. Went to law school for 3 years, not becoming a lawyer.


i want to float the possibility out there that kaplan is lying to us. specifically, what about the idea that maybe this test was, in fact, actually WAY harder than the real one (more than just a 15 point jump that they attribute to scaling)? perhaps they lied to us to make us work harder down the stretch, in an ends-justify-the-means kind of way of thinking. this would not be without precedent, given the fact that they admit that they grade way too harshly on the essays. i just can't imagine that the exception-to-exception questions that appeared so often on that final will appear with anything close to that frequency on the real thing. thoughts?

and sandcastle, i got a 117 w/o scaling. don't give up.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:01 am

That is what is frustrating me. Like I feel like I know a lot about "the law" at this point. Maybe I don't have things exactly memorized but I have a sense of how things should go. There were a few questions on the final where I just had no idea, but for the most part, I was able to narrow it down to 2 and I honestly thought I was doing a good job of reading the question, having an idea of what the answer should be, reading the answers, and based on my knowledge of the law, picking one. That's what's frustrating me. If these tests aren't even testing what you know about the law, but like random stupid shit, what's the point?

Yeah, the essays...like I said I don't have word for word memorized like "the rule is X and X and X" but more I'm able to have a feeling of what the answer is and just write the rule down in my own words. I am hoping that's enough.

If not, oh well. The way Kaplan is setting up these MBE makes me think like, who could possibly pass the bar? I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world/law school, but I'm certainly not the dumbest. Kaplan is making me think that only legit geniuses pass the bar. Which can't be true. Not all lawyers are geniuses.

semplice
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby semplice » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:07 am

sandcastle45 wrote:When people are saying they got 140, are you including the 15 or 30 points we are supposed to add or was that your raw score? If it's your raw score, I literally give up. Bye. Went to law school for 3 years, not becoming a lawyer.


I tried to find a raw score distribution chart to put things in perspective but couldn't come up with anything. Nonetheless, I think it's safe to say that the 140s and above are not common. The sample of scores on this forum thread is self-selected, unverified, and by no means representative. If you scored average or even somewhat below average on the final MBE I'm sure you have nothing to worry about as long as you keep working and improving.

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silky bruh
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby silky bruh » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:31 am

shock259 wrote:I modified it a bit. Here's my new one:

1) Review NY attack outlines for all NY subjects
2) outline 5 random essays, review answers
3) Do 30 NY MC
4) review 1 NY topic thoroughly (starting with most frequently tested, working my way down)
5) Review MBE attack outlines for all MBE subjects
6) Do 50 MBEs
7) Anything else that feels like it needs doing (IE anything that came up on the essays that stumped me, random memorization, etc)

This one is working really well so far. The first one I posted was too many MBEs. Also, reviewing notes is more helpful than I thought it would be, so I've added more of that.


I think I'll do something similar to this. Kaplan's final study plan is just reviewing weak subjects and doing an essay after. So weird. MOAR practice problems.

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:35 pm

NY people: we just aren't really worrying about the NY MC right? It seems basically impossible to make any improvements on it. The questions are ridiculously specific and random (tons Kaplan questions are over things that Kaplan didn't cover at all). And it's only worth 10% of our overall score. I think I may just stop doing the practice questions entirely. I'd be happy with a 25/50.

Edit: for example, I just got a Kaplan question that was testing whether I knew the NY distinction for the admissibility of family trees written in Bibles. Under the MBE, they're admissible. Under NY law, it's not admissible unless there is independent verification and it was made before the litigation commenced.

I ain't got time to try and learn shit like that.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:41 pm

shock259 wrote:NY people: we just aren't really worrying about the NY MC right? It seems basically impossible to make any improvements on it. The questions are ridiculously specific and random (tons Kaplan questions are over things that Kaplan didn't cover at all). And it's only worth 10% of our overall score. I think I may just stop doing the practice questions entirely. I'd be happy with a 25/50.

Edit: for example, I just got a Kaplan question that was testing whether I knew the NY distinction for the admissibility of family trees written in Bibles. Under the MBE, they're admissible. Under NY law, it's not admissible unless there is independent verification and it was made before the litigation commenced.

I ain't got time to try and learn shit like that.

25/50 is all you really need if you do fine on the rest. From what I have gathered from past bar takers, most people don't worry about it any more than what they learn for the essays. That's my plan. I am not doing any more NY MC than I have done, unless I toss some in one day next week.




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