KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

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LAWYER2
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby LAWYER2 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:32 am

ThisSucks1 wrote:got a 151 on the simulated mbe. i know thats pretty good at this stage of the game. is the kaplan simulated mbe a good indicator of real mbe performance or are the simulated mbe questions easier than the actual mbe?



Sheesh! Congrats though. Any tips you think attributed to your performance you can share?

ThisSucks1
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby ThisSucks1 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:27 am

LAWYER2 wrote:
ThisSucks1 wrote:got a 151 on the simulated mbe. i know thats pretty good at this stage of the game. is the kaplan simulated mbe a good indicator of real mbe performance or are the simulated mbe questions easier than the actual mbe?



Sheesh! Congrats though. Any tips you think attributed to your performance you can share?


i think its just about doing a lot of mbe questions. i've done about 1100 between the book and the online bank, not including the two simulated practice exams. i also condensed the long outlines to about 20 pages a piece and use those to review. however, when i was taking it, i think about 30% of the questions i had narrowed down to about 2 choices. I think on the mbe if you narrow down your answer to 2 choices, you're in a really good position. after narrowing down the 2 choices, see if there is any reason that one of the two choices doesn't make sense, such as the statement is true but not true as applied in every context. otherwise, just keep hammering mbe questions. i'm gonna do another 40-60 everyday before the exam. id just recommend to keep doing mbe questions

annalisa
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby annalisa » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:54 am

Pokemon wrote:Is anyone else taking NY? What happens if you completely miss the issues on an essay? Will the MBE and other essays carry you or is it fatal?


From what I've read here and on other forums, it's not us, it's Kaplan. Their essay grading is really bizarre. At the beginning of the summer I'd try to do the essays closed-book, but I was getting 2's every time (out of 7). I would spot issues that Kaplan didn't, but if the issue wasn't in the Kaplan rubrik, I wouldn't get credit for it. I'd have essays where Kaplan would say there were just three or four issues. I took bar essay writing in school and my professor there told me don't stop until I've hit at least 10 issues per essay! And there are some other wacky things too, like I feel like Kaplan really pulls some issues out of thin air. Or they won't hit on really easy ones, like closed corporations for example.

Ok sorry, this turned into a bit of a rant. My state doesn't release sample essay answers, so all I've got are the Kaplan ones and they aren't cutting it for me.

annalisa
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby annalisa » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:56 am

bdubs wrote:
Royal wrote:Does it seem to anyone else like the questions in the red book get harder as you go?


What state/program is the red book from? All of my books are Kaplan purpely-blue. (IL, online)

Feeling super behind on all of this. I watched all of the videos and took all of the review quizzes but have barely done anything on essays or MPT. Practice exam on Monday is terrifying


I think the red book just changed colors to purpely-blue. When the Kaplan books got shipped at the end of the semester, the Kaplan student reps were talking other students off the ledge about the red book changing colors, lol.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby objctnyrhnr » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:58 am

annalisa wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Royal wrote:Does it seem to anyone else like the questions in the red book get harder as you go?


What state/program is the red book from? All of my books are Kaplan purpely-blue. (IL, online)

Feeling super behind on all of this. I watched all of the videos and took all of the review quizzes but have barely done anything on essays or MPT. Practice exam on Monday is terrifying


I think the red book just changed colors to purpely-blue. When the Kaplan books got shipped at the end of the semester, the Kaplan student reps were talking other students off the ledge about the red book changing colors, lol.


I do not see the benefit of doing the essay portion of the exam so soon. I barely know half of these topics. It's not like they are going to grade it and give me an accurate idea of what my score might be because (1) they haven't graded about 20 that i submitted last week yet and (2) even if they did grade it, they would just grade me like 2 points lower than I deserve because that's their thing. I just feel like doing essays on topics you don't know if a big waste of a day. I'm going to do the MBE and maybe do 8 essays in a week or 2 I think. I understand the benefit of mimicking the real thing, but I just don't think it's worth losing a day over when I could actually be learning something.

Thoughts?

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bazinga!
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:18 pm

what is a red book?

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:55 pm

bazinga! wrote:what is a red book?

I think it's the large book with MBE Qs to practice from.

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bazinga!
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:47 pm

JJDancer wrote:
bazinga! wrote:what is a red book?

I think it's the large book with MBE Qs to practice from.


Whew, I thought I was missing something crucial!

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bazinga!
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:07 pm

It's kind of late to be asking this, but out of curiosity when the videos tell you/told you to review information in your outline, or that it was discussed further in your outline, does that mean the bar points book? After being scared over the red book it got me thinking maybe there is some giant book of all the relevant law that I didn't get? I remember my wills & estates guy especially saying things like "I'm not going to cover this really because it's in your outline and notes and you can look it up" and I'd have like blank bar notes in sections. Anyone?

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:16 pm

bazinga! wrote:It's kind of late to be asking this, but out of curiosity when the videos tell you/told you to review information in your outline, or that it was discussed further in your outline, does that mean the bar points book? After being scared over the red book it got me thinking maybe there is some giant book of all the relevant law that I didn't get? I remember my wills & estates guy especially saying things like "I'm not going to cover this really because it's in your outline and notes and you can look it up" and I'd have like blank bar notes in sections. Anyone?


I have two outline books
one for mbe and one for CA subjects
as well as 1 bar points

it's funny you say that because I didn't discover the bar points until about 2-3 weeks ago and hated how long and tedious the outlines were so

bar points is a condensed outline

outline refers to the long outline book.

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bazinga!
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:27 pm

JJDancer wrote:
bazinga! wrote:It's kind of late to be asking this, but out of curiosity when the videos tell you/told you to review information in your outline, or that it was discussed further in your outline, does that mean the bar points book? After being scared over the red book it got me thinking maybe there is some giant book of all the relevant law that I didn't get? I remember my wills & estates guy especially saying things like "I'm not going to cover this really because it's in your outline and notes and you can look it up" and I'd have like blank bar notes in sections. Anyone?


I have two outline books
one for mbe and one for CA subjects
as well as 1 bar points

it's funny you say that because I didn't discover the bar points until about 2-3 weeks ago and hated how long and tedious the outlines were so

bar points is a condensed outline

outline refers to the long outline book.


hmmm..yeah I don't have a long outline book. Just the bar points. I've looked several times because of stuff the video said but figured maybe my jurisdiction just didn't have one? weird.

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:32 pm

bazinga! wrote:
JJDancer wrote:
bazinga! wrote:It's kind of late to be asking this, but out of curiosity when the videos tell you/told you to review information in your outline, or that it was discussed further in your outline, does that mean the bar points book? After being scared over the red book it got me thinking maybe there is some giant book of all the relevant law that I didn't get? I remember my wills & estates guy especially saying things like "I'm not going to cover this really because it's in your outline and notes and you can look it up" and I'd have like blank bar notes in sections. Anyone?


I have two outline books
one for mbe and one for CA subjects
as well as 1 bar points

it's funny you say that because I didn't discover the bar points until about 2-3 weeks ago and hated how long and tedious the outlines were so

bar points is a condensed outline

outline refers to the long outline book.


hmmm..yeah I don't have a long outline book. Just the bar points. I've looked several times because of stuff the video said but figured maybe my jurisdiction just didn't have one? weird.



I think the really large book is a waste of time. For the MBE, practice > reading the large outlines.
For state essays, it is simply impossible to learn the large outline.


Also, I am getting more and more worried about over-thinking answers. I was paying attention on some MBE Qbank questions and got like 10/22. Then I got tired + headache but decided to do another 22. Got like 18/22.
Maybe just luck, or these ones were easier, but sometimes I feel like overthink answers.

People also say that Kaplan questions are harder than on the bar. But if I overthink this crap, that will not help me.

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:36 pm

I screwed up 2 of the 3 prompts on an essay question and Kaplan still gave me 4/10. Is this how the real bar exam grading will work..? Doing New York. First prompt was actually about testator capacity, but I wrote about lay witnesses versus expert witnesses. Second prompt was actually about civil procedure and court approval of settlements, but I wrote about agency. So, not even close on either.

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Tanicius
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Tanicius » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:59 pm

shock259 wrote:I screwed up 2 of the 3 prompts on an essay question and Kaplan still gave me 4/10. Is this how the real bar exam grading will work..? Doing New York. First prompt was actually about testator capacity, but I wrote about lay witnesses versus expert witnesses. Second prompt was actually about civil procedure and court approval of settlements, but I wrote about agency. So, not even close on either.


The only similarity between bad bar prep grading and real bar exam grading is that they'll be equally arbitrary, unpredictable, and bad.

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crysmissmichelle
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby crysmissmichelle » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:06 pm

bazinga! wrote:
JJDancer wrote:
bazinga! wrote:It's kind of late to be asking this, but out of curiosity when the videos tell you/told you to review information in your outline, or that it was discussed further in your outline, does that mean the bar points book? After being scared over the red book it got me thinking maybe there is some giant book of all the relevant law that I didn't get? I remember my wills & estates guy especially saying things like "I'm not going to cover this really because it's in your outline and notes and you can look it up" and I'd have like blank bar notes in sections. Anyone?


I have two outline books
one for mbe and one for CA subjects
as well as 1 bar points

it's funny you say that because I didn't discover the bar points until about 2-3 weeks ago and hated how long and tedious the outlines were so

bar points is a condensed outline

outline refers to the long outline book.


hmmm..yeah I don't have a long outline book. Just the bar points. I've looked several times because of stuff the video said but figured maybe my jurisdiction just didn't have one? weird.


The long outline book has been pretty essential for me. It is on the ebook/kindle version if you got that. It has a lot of info not in the video lectures or barpoints.

bdubs
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bdubs » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:14 pm

crysmissmichelle wrote:The long outline book has been pretty essential for me. It is on the ebook/kindle version if you got that. It has a lot of info not in the video lectures or barpoints.


It's kind of unfortunate that the bar points seem to omit pretty critical information for responses to typical essay questions. The long outlines are way too detailed though. It's a pain in the ass to comb through the outline to try to figure out what important information was left off the bar points. I know they recommend making your own condensed outlines but that was just not feasible for me.

Now I'm wondering if I should have done BarBri. :-(

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:44 pm

I refuse to believe that the long outlines are useful. For the MBE, they definitely are not... all you need for that is practice.

For the essays, I think it would be impossible and setting up yourself for trouble if you try to memorize stuff on the long outline. As the distinctions dude said, for the bar you are better off knowing 80% of the stuff really well, instead of a bit about 100% of the stuff.

At the end of the day, we can even get the exam answer wrong and still get passing grades on them. We just need to spot the issues and apply the law.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:54 pm

Pokemon wrote:I refuse to believe that the long outlines are useful. For the MBE, they definitely are not... all you need for that is practice.

For the essays, I think it would be impossible and setting up yourself for trouble if you try to memorize stuff on the long outline. As the distinctions dude said, for the bar you are better off knowing 80% of the stuff really well, instead of a bit about 100% of the stuff.

At the end of the day, we can even get the exam answer wrong and still get passing grades on them. We just need to spot the issues and apply the law.

SO MUCH THIS. I read quite a few and feel silly for it.

I turned in a Kaplan essay about adverse possession in a tenants in common scenario. The sample came to an entirely different conclusion after not mentioning ouster. I'm really curious to see how they grade this lol.

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a male human
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:10 pm

IME, Kaplan is strict about getting the "right" issues according to its model answer. If you come to a "wrong" conclusion, your grader will take off points.

bdubs
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bdubs » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:27 am

IL Bar question: I have a Federal Tax video, bar notes, and bar points. But the "Test Analysis" tab for Kaplan has no entry showing a testing frequency for Federal Tax on the Illinois Bar in the last 10 years. They also don't have any practice exam questions for Fed Tax. Is the topic new?

I watched the video and it was super basic, but I have no idea how much to study for it. Seems like a new topic would be more likely to be tested.

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:46 am

a male human wrote:IME, Kaplan is strict about getting the "right" issues according to its model answer. If you come to a "wrong" conclusion, your grader will take off points.

Yeah this bothers me. One of our lecturers always says take a position and argue it, which conclusion you come to doesn't matter. But kaplan always tells me if they think I came to the wrong conclusion and I'm assuming takes off points for it.

So which is it?

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Tanicius
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Tanicius » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:37 am

JJDancer wrote:
a male human wrote:IME, Kaplan is strict about getting the "right" issues according to its model answer. If you come to a "wrong" conclusion, your grader will take off points.

Yeah this bothers me. One of our lecturers always says take a position and argue it, which conclusion you come to doesn't matter. But kaplan always tells me if they think I came to the wrong conclusion and I'm assuming takes off points for it.

So which is it?


I notice the same thing on my Themis essays. I think it's because the graders are practicing attorneys doing this part-time who don't have personal knowledge of the issues or any interest in learning about the issues -- they're just reading the model answer and applying it to your essay, so if your essay includes issues or conclusions not contained in the model answer, your grader has no idea if those are effective, and so they grade you down for not matching the model. It's really annoying when they're only substantive commentary is about failure to match the model answer though. Thanks, grader, but I can read the model answer myself.

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northwood
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby northwood » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:46 am

JJDancer wrote:
a male human wrote:IME, Kaplan is strict about getting the "right" issues according to its model answer. If you come to a "wrong" conclusion, your grader will take off points.

Yeah this bothers me. One of our lecturers always says take a position and argue it, which conclusion you come to doesn't matter. But kaplan always tells me if they think I came to the wrong conclusion and I'm assuming takes off points for it.

So which is it?



remember: they want you to memorize the law, and see how and why its applicable to the call of the question (enjoin- talk about an injunction)... and there are some graders who will grade your essay and go- wrong issue NO points... then grade your analysis to your issue and give you some points, and then if you happened to get the same conclusion give you points.. but others will go.. I can see how or why you did this, and give you partial points for the law

in the end it all depends on who grades your essay, and how they are feeling at that particular point in time. try not to piss them off with an off colored joke, or make them work extra hard to give you points ( rambling on and on about something, and magically hit a key word) or structure your response in such a way that it is difficult to read.

right now, I personally am happy when my essay grader grades me as If there can only be full points or no points, because 1) its practice, 2) I don't get a false sense of security thinking im getting 80-90% of all the points, and 0nloy to find out in November that only got 55-65% of the points on the essay, because its out of our hands once we've used up all of our time.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby objctnyrhnr » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:08 pm

if I can get a 5 from the kaplan graders by doing an essay closed book, that's as good as I am gonna get and i am gonna consider myself all set with that subject. i feel like they are instructed to only go above 5 in the rarest of circumstances. from what i understood from the kaplan rep when I talked to him the other day, the graders grade like 1-2 points below what you would get on the exam with the same answer...which is stupid, I think, but I guess i understand why.

bdubs
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bdubs » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:05 pm

I just did an essay (family law) and the sample outline and answer are in total conflict with the Kaplan outlines. WTF??? Has anyone else had this happen?




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