KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

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bazinga!
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:26 pm

Pokemon wrote:So I am kind of behind, but what really worries me is that I seem to have really low memory of subjects I learned really early on. I am still scoring in an ok range on MBE practice, but I cannot name a single rule about MBE Evidence. I think I score ok less because I learn the rules and more because the questions start making sense to me, whatever that means.c


Same here, I got a 129 on my midterm and get in the 60-70% range with the quizzes I do. But my essays are still pretty heavily open book, and when I go to only using one-sheets to refresh my memory it's utter crap. I do not have the elements of the law memorized at all, and certainly not enough to write anything close to the sample essays they provide :( I know stress maintenance is the name of the game, but I'm starting to get really worried about remembering all of the stuff for essays when I'm still watching videos and just hearing a lot of this stuff for the first time. I still haven't memorized torts and crim, how am I going to memorize family law and secured transactions in less than three weeks?!

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:36 pm

bazinga! wrote:
Pokemon wrote:So I am kind of behind, but what really worries me is that I seem to have really low memory of subjects I learned really early on. I am still scoring in an ok range on MBE practice, but I cannot name a single rule about MBE Evidence. I think I score ok less because I learn the rules and more because the questions start making sense to me, whatever that means.c


Same here, I got a 129 on my midterm and get in the 60-70% range with the quizzes I do. But my essays are still pretty heavily open book, and when I go to only using one-sheets to refresh my memory it's utter crap. I do not have the elements of the law memorized at all, and certainly not enough to write anything close to the sample essays they provide :( I know stress maintenance is the name of the game, but I'm starting to get really worried about remembering all of the stuff for essays when I'm still watching videos and just hearing a lot of this stuff for the first time. I still haven't memorized torts and crim, how am I going to memorize family law and secured transactions in less than three weeks?!


I feel you somewhat. I have just started doing closed book essays and only did 2 open book essays last month. While I intuitively and by practice and do OK on MBEs - I'm concerned about essays. Now I basically "review" a topic through diff things MBE strategies book, shorter outlines, checking up on rules I know I don't know all the elements of pretty much 4 hours or so and then do an essay in that subject area. Seem to be able to hit 60 (almost passing score) this way..

Also, I just did evidence yesterday and some things you learn just by doing one essay. For example, always mention logical and legal relevance (you will get this down cold after one essay) and competency (presumed/personal knowledge etc).

The rule for hearsay and when evidence can be used for nontruth purposes (motive, identity etc) and then spend maybe 1 hour going through which exceptions/exemptions are used for docs and which for testimony. and get it down to just bulleted rules on a page or flashcards and do an essay right away. Should help solidify it!

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bazinga!
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:02 pm

JJDancer wrote:
bazinga! wrote:
Pokemon wrote:So I am kind of behind, but what really worries me is that I seem to have really low memory of subjects I learned really early on. I am still scoring in an ok range on MBE practice, but I cannot name a single rule about MBE Evidence. I think I score ok less because I learn the rules and more because the questions start making sense to me, whatever that means.c


Same here, I got a 129 on my midterm and get in the 60-70% range with the quizzes I do. But my essays are still pretty heavily open book, and when I go to only using one-sheets to refresh my memory it's utter crap. I do not have the elements of the law memorized at all, and certainly not enough to write anything close to the sample essays they provide :( I know stress maintenance is the name of the game, but I'm starting to get really worried about remembering all of the stuff for essays when I'm still watching videos and just hearing a lot of this stuff for the first time. I still haven't memorized torts and crim, how am I going to memorize family law and secured transactions in less than three weeks?!


I feel you somewhat. I have just started doing closed book essays and only did 2 open book essays last month. While I intuitively and by practice and do OK on MBEs - I'm concerned about essays. Now I basically "review" a topic through diff things MBE strategies book, shorter outlines, checking up on rules I know I don't know all the elements of pretty much 4 hours or so and then do an essay in that subject area. Seem to be able to hit 60 (almost passing score) this way..

Also, I just did evidence yesterday and some things you learn just by doing one essay. For example, always mention logical and legal relevance (you will get this down cold after one essay) and competency (presumed/personal knowledge etc).

The rule for hearsay and when evidence can be used for nontruth purposes (motive, identity etc) and then spend maybe 1 hour going through which exceptions/exemptions are used for docs and which for testimony. and get it down to just bulleted rules on a page or flashcards and do an essay right away. Should help solidify it!



Are you doing open book on the first essay of a new subject?

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:45 pm

bazinga! wrote:
JJDancer wrote:I feel you somewhat. I have just started doing closed book essays and only did 2 open book essays last month. While I intuitively and by practice and do OK on MBEs - I'm concerned about essays. Now I basically "review" a topic through diff things MBE strategies book, shorter outlines, checking up on rules I know I don't know all the elements of pretty much 4 hours or so and then do an essay in that subject area. Seem to be able to hit 60 (almost passing score) this way..

Also, I just did evidence yesterday and some things you learn just by doing one essay. For example, always mention logical and legal relevance (you will get this down cold after one essay) and competency (presumed/personal knowledge etc).

The rule for hearsay and when evidence can be used for nontruth purposes (motive, identity etc) and then spend maybe 1 hour going through which exceptions/exemptions are used for docs and which for testimony. and get it down to just bulleted rules on a page or flashcards and do an essay right away. Should help solidify it!



Are you doing open book on the first essay of a new subject?

No, Now I am not doing any open book. I just review the topic that day (via MBEs, outlines etc)- I might look at other sample answers (not for the essay I am about to do, others in the subject area) to read some typical rule statements etc. But I keep it 90-95% closed book. Meaning I might look up a really small thing I know is there but I forget, like one small consideration. And I might glance at a topic to make sure I got the major issues before turning it in (after writing it fully myself).

I just meant that once you do the first essay (the preparation for it and the review of the sample answer/outline afterwards - maybe make flashcards or a one page of major rules you missed and read that sheet again the next day) this will help learn the material.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:19 am

All the extra lines on these outlines for handwriters are so obnoxious. I cut the torts outline down from 85 to 54 pages prior to printing just by getting rid of empty lines and "Hypothetical" headers and shit.

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a male human
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:36 am

Kaplan reps (i.e., me): "B-bu-but you can TYPE them...!"

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:23 pm

What do you guys think are the odds of getting one of the random, weird assignments on the MPT? I mean, if it's an analytical memo, persuasive memo, client letter, or even an analysis of a contract, I think I would understand how to do all those even though I've never done an analysis of a contract. If it's some of the other ones like settlement proposal…Kaplan in the workbook is like always begin with the following disclaimer-(legit like a paragraph of words that you think I'm gonna attempt to remember when I have a ton of other legal rules to memorize). They are also like leave space for signatures! And other stupid crap…

I guess what I'm asking is like…don't you think it's more likely they ask us to do some sort of memo or client letter or something that the format can be easily inferred or even "made up" than some more official things some of us probably have no experience in ever doing? For example, I've never done a discovery plan or a witness examination or a closing argument, and I don't really want to exert brain power into memorizing these specific things about each Kaplan tells us to. And if they do ask us to do one of these things, do you think they will be somewhat more lenient than Kaplan is?

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Tanicius
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Tanicius » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:33 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:What do you guys think are the odds of getting one of the random, weird assignments on the MPT? I mean, if it's an analytical memo, persuasive memo, client letter, or even an analysis of a contract, I think I would understand how to do all those even though I've never done an analysis of a contract. If it's some of the other ones like settlement proposal…Kaplan in the workbook is like always begin with the following disclaimer-(legit like a paragraph of words that you think I'm gonna attempt to remember when I have a ton of other legal rules to memorize). They are also like leave space for signatures! And other stupid crap…

I guess what I'm asking is like…don't you think it's more likely they ask us to do some sort of memo or client letter or something that the format can be easily inferred or even "made up" than some more official things some of us probably have no experience in ever doing? For example, I've never done a discovery plan or a witness examination or a closing argument, and I don't really want to exert brain power into memorizing these specific things about each Kaplan tells us to. And if they do ask us to do one of these things, do you think they will be somewhat more lenient than Kaplan is?


Themis doesn't even have specific instructions or guidelines for types of MPT assignments. Their guideline is: READ THE INSTRUCTIONS CLOSELY, READ THE ASSIGNMENT LETTER CLOSELY.

They're not going to fail people on the bar who haven't written a closing argument before unless the writer clearly fails to follow instructions that are part of the assignment.

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:04 pm

Things like signature lines cannot possibly be important. I think as long as you hit on the big issues of the MPT, you'll be fine. And from what I can tell from doing 2, they make it pretty damn clear. I actually sort of like the MPTs.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby objctnyrhnr » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:21 pm

are we all in agreement that the multiple choice q's in the bank get harder once you get good/once some time passes/once you do a bunch? i know this was discussed earlier, but i'm not sure there was a consensus.

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:53 pm

Where on the syllabus are most of you guys? Anyone behind or am alone in having that honor?

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:56 pm

Pokemon wrote:Where on the syllabus are most of you guys? Anyone behind or am alone in having that honor?

I am caught up on lectures (well, ahead since I did all the NY lectures for this week over the weekend and on Monday). That being said I am behind on essays, MPT, MBE, and actually learning the subjects lol.

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:32 pm

JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Where on the syllabus are most of you guys? Anyone behind or am alone in having that honor?

I am caught up on lectures (well, ahead since I did all the NY lectures for this week over the weekend and on Monday). That being said I am behind on essays, MPT, MBE, and actually learning the subjects lol.

Seconded. lol. I have 3-4 checkpoint quizzes to catch up on too

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:42 pm

JJDancer wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Where on the syllabus are most of you guys? Anyone behind or am alone in having that honor?

I am caught up on lectures (well, ahead since I did all the NY lectures for this week over the weekend and on Monday). That being said I am behind on essays, MPT, MBE, and actually learning the subjects lol.

Seconded. lol. I have 3-4 checkpoint quizzes to catch up on too

I still have the fed civ pro checkpoint quiz but I REALLY do not want to do it. it's 44 questions, which seems so unnecessary. I will do it, beacuse I want to make sure if I don't pass than I can take again for free, but I will resent every minute.

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:38 pm

JenDarby wrote:
JJDancer wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Where on the syllabus are most of you guys? Anyone behind or am alone in having that honor?

I am caught up on lectures (well, ahead since I did all the NY lectures for this week over the weekend and on Monday). That being said I am behind on essays, MPT, MBE, and actually learning the subjects lol.

Seconded. lol. I have 3-4 checkpoint quizzes to catch up on too

I still have the fed civ pro checkpoint quiz but I REALLY do not want to do it. it's 44 questions, which seems so unnecessary. I will do it, beacuse I want to make sure if I don't pass than I can take again for free, but I will resent every minute.

What are the requirements for this hwole take again free thing btw?

*I need to stay away from such negative thoughts but still!*

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LeDique
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby LeDique » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:57 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:are we all in agreement that the multiple choice q's in the bank get harder once you get good/once some time passes/once you do a bunch? i know this was discussed earlier, but i'm not sure there was a consensus.


I think this is happening. I go for my highest scores to my lowest right after, then slowly climb back up. I doubt this is a coincidence.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:41 pm

LeDique wrote:
objctnyrhnr wrote:are we all in agreement that the multiple choice q's in the bank get harder once you get good/once some time passes/once you do a bunch? i know this was discussed earlier, but i'm not sure there was a consensus.


I think this is happening. I go for my highest scores to my lowest right after, then slowly climb back up. I doubt this is a coincidence.

I don't know, today I did 55% in the morning (my lowest score) and 85% in the evening. They've been pretty consistent to me, but my MBE fatigue seems to kick in when I'm not in the mood.

IFNB
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby IFNB » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:33 pm

My state only weighs the essays at 30% of the total score. I'm starting to wonder how bad I can fuck those things up provided a decent MBE score....

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:02 am

I hate this crap. There have been a few questions where I got the theory correctly (that is I knew for example the BLL being tested by question), but I did not find the answer fulfilling it (i did not think BLL matches what Kaplan says it matches because of how answer choice is written). Either I read answers like an idiot, or kaplan is not great at providing them.

sidhesadie
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sidhesadie » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:25 am

Pokemon wrote:I hate this crap. There have been a few questions where I got the theory correctly (that is I knew for example the BLL being tested by question), but I did not find the answer fulfilling it (i did not think BLL matches what Kaplan says it matches because of how answer choice is written). Either I read answers like an idiot, or kaplan is not great at providing them.



This has happened to me several times. I know the rule. I just don't see how the answer choice they say represents the rule actually does so.

I'm just hoping the actual bar questions are better.

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LeDique
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby LeDique » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:28 am

sidhesadie wrote:
Pokemon wrote:I hate this crap. There have been a few questions where I got the theory correctly (that is I knew for example the BLL being tested by question), but I did not find the answer fulfilling it (i did not think BLL matches what Kaplan says it matches because of how answer choice is written). Either I read answers like an idiot, or kaplan is not great at providing them.



This has happened to me several times. I know the rule. I just don't see how the answer choice they say represents the rule actually does so.

I'm just hoping the actual bar questions are better.


Count me in this boat too. I'd say half the questions I miss fall in to this category, whereas half are "oh didn't know that rule"

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:37 am

LeDique wrote:
sidhesadie wrote:
Pokemon wrote:I hate this crap. There have been a few questions where I got the theory correctly (that is I knew for example the BLL being tested by question), but I did not find the answer fulfilling it (i did not think BLL matches what Kaplan says it matches because of how answer choice is written). Either I read answers like an idiot, or kaplan is not great at providing them.



This has happened to me several times. I know the rule. I just don't see how the answer choice they say represents the rule actually does so.

I'm just hoping the actual bar questions are better.


Count me in this boat too. I'd say half the questions I miss fall in to this category, whereas half are "oh didn't know that rule"


Well, I pray this is a Kaplan issue and not an MBE issue. It also seems like the more I study, the more likely I am to make these mistakes.

sidhesadie
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sidhesadie » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:44 am

The other thing I've run into a couple times is basically facts not in the question being critical to what they say is the answer. I've always been told that if the facts aren't in the question, they didn't happen (i.e., if it doesn't say the party signed the agreement, they didn't sign it).

But several times the Kaplan answer has been something along the lines of "well none of these are really right, but it's likely that X Y and Z could be true, and if so B is the best answer."

wtf.

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:42 am

Pokemon wrote:
LeDique wrote:
sidhesadie wrote:
Pokemon wrote:I hate this crap. There have been a few questions where I got the theory correctly (that is I knew for example the BLL being tested by question), but I did not find the answer fulfilling it (i did not think BLL matches what Kaplan says it matches because of how answer choice is written). Either I read answers like an idiot, or kaplan is not great at providing them.



This has happened to me several times. I know the rule. I just don't see how the answer choice they say represents the rule actually does so.

I'm just hoping the actual bar questions are better.


Count me in this boat too. I'd say half the questions I miss fall in to this category, whereas half are "oh didn't know that rule"


Well, I pray this is a Kaplan issue and not an MBE issue. It also seems like the more I study, the more likely I am to make these mistakes.


I am half drunk and mostly tired, so forgive me if I misunderstand the posts here... but an attorney told me as I was getting ready for bar prep that MBEs are basically choosing the best of 4 wrong answers. I have found that to be true. You can read a question and know the answer... but that answer isn't available and you have to choose the most logical of what is there. I don't think it is a Kaplan thing, but just MBE in general. A friend of mine who passed last year is one of those piss you off genius tyoes that doesn't try and scores great.... he consistently scored in the 85-95% range on all his MBE quizzes/practice tests and said something similar- you have to go against the answer you wish you could argue. I find myself wanting to argue both sides of two different answers, and I usually end up having to guess.

It's really a big pain in the ass. The bar is grading us on something that would get us disbarred otherwise- let a client walk in you roffice and give you their version of the story, spend a minute or so, with no research, and tell them how it will turn out.... see what happens

annalisa
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby annalisa » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:12 am

Pokemon wrote:
LeDique wrote:
sidhesadie wrote:
Pokemon wrote:I hate this crap. There have been a few questions where I got the theory correctly (that is I knew for example the BLL being tested by question), but I did not find the answer fulfilling it (i did not think BLL matches what Kaplan says it matches because of how answer choice is written). Either I read answers like an idiot, or kaplan is not great at providing them.



This has happened to me several times. I know the rule. I just don't see how the answer choice they say represents the rule actually does so.

I'm just hoping the actual bar questions are better.


Count me in this boat too. I'd say half the questions I miss fall in to this category, whereas half are "oh didn't know that rule"


Well, I pray this is a Kaplan issue and not an MBE issue. It also seems like the more I study, the more likely I am to make these mistakes.


Yup, agreed. And agree to the other poster who said Kaplan adds facts to the answer explanations that aren't in the fact pattern. Annoying!

I think the actual bar questions are a little better, but just a little. I took a bar prep course at law school so I have Emanuel's Strategies & Tactics as well as all four of the NCBEX practice tests. I'm saving them to practice until closer to the exam, but I think these are obviously much better representations of MBE questions than Kaplan's.




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