KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

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a male human
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:41 pm

sidhesadie wrote:
a male human wrote:I would use lectures for review, not for learning. Is that idea too wild? Lecturers can make mistakes or wing some parts. They are also severely annoying. Written materials generally should be the final authority. Except Qbank questions because they made up and may not be consistent with one another or with the law.


Some people are auditory learners, you do know that right? It's why some of us actually went to class in law school.

Also, I'm not sure I should trust the Kaplan produced written outline over the Kaplan produced lecture over the Kaplan produced Qbank question. IT IS ALL SUSPECT.

Sure, I appreciate that some people are auditory learners, and they should do what helps them most.

It's just that I dislike Kaplan's lectures. To me they are a huge time distractor. I found them largely unhelpful for the time spent. Could have been my fault though.

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:12 pm

a male human wrote:What's the point of having MC questions for essay subjects? Does Barbri do this, too?


I skipped the Civ Pro and CA Civ Pro CPQs completely. I wasn't wasting my time with them, especially since I was already frustrated with the lecturers for those subjects.

As to the questions about the QBank, yes they get harder, and yes some of the answers are ridiculous. I have found a few that were very subjective (would make great essay questions, but not MBE) as well as a few that applied outdated law (I do not care to learn/review what the law use to be).

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Tanicius
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Tanicius » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:15 pm

a male human wrote:
sidhesadie wrote:
a male human wrote:I would use lectures for review, not for learning. Is that idea too wild? Lecturers can make mistakes or wing some parts. They are also severely annoying. Written materials generally should be the final authority. Except Qbank questions because they made up and may not be consistent with one another or with the law.


Some people are auditory learners, you do know that right? It's why some of us actually went to class in law school.

Also, I'm not sure I should trust the Kaplan produced written outline over the Kaplan produced lecture over the Kaplan produced Qbank question. IT IS ALL SUSPECT.

Sure, I appreciate that some people are auditory learners, and they should do what helps them most.

It's just that I dislike Kaplan's lectures. To me they are a huge time distractor. I found them largely unhelpful for the time spent. Could have been my fault though.


Themis student who found Themis's lectures similarly annoying and oftentimes (mostly) unhelpful. Here's the thing: For some of us, we can't just make ourselves sit there and read something and remember it. The lectures are more helpful than reading because they actually force us to get through them. For me they were definitely a waste of time, but they were not as much of a waste of time as it would have been to actually sit down and try to read a 110-page outline in a day.

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:15 pm

a male human wrote:
sidhesadie wrote:
a male human wrote:I would use lectures for review, not for learning. Is that idea too wild? Lecturers can make mistakes or wing some parts. They are also severely annoying. Written materials generally should be the final authority. Except Qbank questions because they made up and may not be consistent with one another or with the law.


Some people are auditory learners, you do know that right? It's why some of us actually went to class in law school.

Also, I'm not sure I should trust the Kaplan produced written outline over the Kaplan produced lecture over the Kaplan produced Qbank question. IT IS ALL SUSPECT.

Sure, I appreciate that some people are auditory learners, and they should do what helps them most.

It's just that I dislike Kaplan's lectures. To me they are a huge time distractor. I found them largely unhelpful for the time spent. Could have been my fault though.


I used the lectures and filled in the outlines as a general overview for all the subjects. I also got the Leansheets (like the one-sheets that Kaplan recommends, but better than I could have put them together) to help as well. After the general overview, I have been able to practice more essays and MBEs (which I am sick of doing at this point). I am going to try and do a PT each day I am off work from now on, but planning and doing are two different things...

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:04 pm

I decided I'm gonna change the way I study. I was doing fine with the lectures until we reached the non-MBE subjects. With the MBE subjects I felt the lectures and outlines were somewhat helpful because it was all classes I took, so between hearing them talk about it and writing in the blanks, it was all helping me remember. Then I would make my own one-sheets, which again was helpful because it was another way to review.

This entire week, since starting the non-MBE subjects, I've wanted to throw my computer out the window with the lectures. I did a one-sheet for Wills and then tried to start one for Trusts and was just like FUCK IT. I don't want to waste my time, spending as much time making these one sheets for these non-MBE subjects as the MBE subjects, when there is a chance nothing will even be asked on the exam. I also don't want to waste the next 3 weeks listening to lectures. I bit the bullet and paid $40 and downloaded the Lean Sheets. I don't know. At this point, I just feel like buckling down and trying to memorize black letter law/rules will be more helpful than wasting my time with 4 hour lectures every day where I don't even think I am retaining anything. Now I am just wondering if I should have done this a month ago, from the beginning.

So…yeah.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:15 pm

Do you like the one sheets? I was thinking about buying them.

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:53 am

JenDarby wrote:Do you like the one sheets? I was thinking about buying them.


I bought the ones from Leansheets (about $32 with a facebook promo code) and they are pretty god so far. I still prefer to put things in my own words so I am using those plus my own notes to sort of put together my own one-sheets... even though I am using it primarily to review by regurgitating the material over and over again. If I see the stuff, see a different perspective on the stuff, then type it out in my own words, I remember it much better.

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:17 am

I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question, but what do we do after 7/18. That is when my kaplan course syllabus is over? Left on our own devices to review the areas we suck at?

annalisa
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby annalisa » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:17 am

sandcastle45 wrote:I decided I'm gonna change the way I study. I was doing fine with the lectures until we reached the non-MBE subjects. With the MBE subjects I felt the lectures and outlines were somewhat helpful because it was all classes I took, so between hearing them talk about it and writing in the blanks, it was all helping me remember. Then I would make my own one-sheets, which again was helpful because it was another way to review.

This entire week, since starting the non-MBE subjects, I've wanted to throw my computer out the window with the lectures. I did a one-sheet for Wills and then tried to start one for Trusts and was just like FUCK IT. I don't want to waste my time, spending as much time making these one sheets for these non-MBE subjects as the MBE subjects, when there is a chance nothing will even be asked on the exam. I also don't want to waste the next 3 weeks listening to lectures. I bit the bullet and paid $40 and downloaded the Lean Sheets. I don't know. At this point, I just feel like buckling down and trying to memorize black letter law/rules will be more helpful than wasting my time with 4 hour lectures every day where I don't even think I am retaining anything. Now I am just wondering if I should have done this a month ago, from the beginning.

So…yeah.


I know what you mean about the essay lectures. Although, I took a lot of these classes during law school so maybe it is a bit different for me. Anyway, as far as those one sheets go, instead of making nice ones like I did for the MBE, so far I've just be copying and pasting the rules from the CPQ questions I got wrong into the one sheet, lol. Not sure if that will help me later, but at least I'll know what my weaker areas are? I agree the MBE stuff is more important (although I'm in a 50/50 state so I'm probably screwing myself over), but maybe that method will work for your essay one sheets?

annalisa
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby annalisa » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:19 am

Pokemon wrote:I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question, but what do we do after 7/18. That is when my kaplan course syllabus is over? Left on our own devices to review the areas we suck at?


I'm not positive, but I think they give us suggested areas to review. I'm guessing it'll be like flashcards and stuff, reminding us to do the 33 questions per day, etc. I figured it would be like the strengths and weaknesses area, just every day.

I am not ready for the final but I am looking forward to structuring my own days and not having to watch lectures, just questions and memorizing.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:31 am

Mr. Pink wrote:
JenDarby wrote:Do you like the one sheets? I was thinking about buying them.


I bought the ones from Leansheets (about $32 with a facebook promo code) and they are pretty god so far. I still prefer to put things in my own words so I am using those plus my own notes to sort of put together my own one-sheets... even though I am using it primarily to review by regurgitating the material over and over again. If I see the stuff, see a different perspective on the stuff, then type it out in my own words, I remember it much better.

I'm so glad you mentioned the promo code! I am buying them now. I agree than retyping things helps me memorize, but the amount of time that making my own one sheets off the huge outlines would have taken me would have been inefficient. I've always been a slow outliner and have been better off starting with something someone else already poured a ton of time into.

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby dogfan14 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:48 pm

Leansheets are $29 w/DUSTIN promo code (copied and tried as of this past weekend from Themis thread).

I like 'em. I find them most useful as FINAL review before questions, as opposed to early review since they are a summary, but SO much better than outlining at this point in the game.

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:00 pm

annalisa wrote:
Pokemon wrote:I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question, but what do we do after 7/18. That is when my kaplan course syllabus is over? Left on our own devices to review the areas we suck at?


I'm not positive, but I think they give us suggested areas to review. I'm guessing it'll be like flashcards and stuff, reminding us to do the 33 questions per day, etc. I figured it would be like the strengths and weaknesses area, just every day.

I am not ready for the final but I am looking forward to structuring my own days and not having to watch lectures, just questions and memorizing.


Yes, I was told that after the final date on the syllabus (mine is 7/14 for CA review) that there will be personalized study tips and areas to work on, based on strength and weaknesses.

Also, (on mine at least, CA review, not sure if each state is different), there are two practice performance exams, which are just performance tests but no published answers or ability to submit. I sent an email and they said that as the day approaches the "model answer" will be available online.

Of course, I wouldn't tell anyone NOT to do them, but me personally, if I am spending the time to do a full PT then I want some feedback as opposed to the self-graded crap. I did one PT today, and I think I will just outline the suggested ones then compare to the model answers.

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:19 pm

Is there any sort of consensus on how many MBE questions is "enough" for an average person? I'm doing a lot. Still getting a fair number wrong , but I seem to be peaking and not improving much. Not sure if I should keep doing more or do something else.

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:38 pm

shock259 wrote:Is there any sort of consensus on how many MBE questions is "enough" for an average person? I'm doing a lot. Still getting a fair number wrong , but I seem to be peaking and not improving much. Not sure if I should keep doing more or do something else.


I'm switching it all up. I can do the MBEs on the Kaplan app (it has gotten better about not crashing, at least for me)... but I get burned out easily. I spend some time at work reviewing a subject or two, then do an essay at night... after a few nights of essays I switch back to MBEs. On my off days I do a PT. If I did the same thing each day I would get really burned out really quickly... so changing it up helps.

But that's just me. We all study different. We are all..... snowflakes

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Tanicius
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Tanicius » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:47 pm

shock259 wrote:Is there any sort of consensus on how many MBE questions is "enough" for an average person? I'm doing a lot. Still getting a fair number wrong , but I seem to be peaking and not improving much. Not sure if I should keep doing more or do something else.


I feel the same way. I'm very slowly getting better on some of my weakest subjects, but I'm actually getting lower on some of my best subjects when I get randomly hit with super hard questions. I'm certainly not going to be getting north of 80% on anything. 75% is about as high as I get barring some really lucky session.

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LeDique
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby LeDique » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:50 pm

Tanicius wrote:
shock259 wrote:Is there any sort of consensus on how many MBE questions is "enough" for an average person? I'm doing a lot. Still getting a fair number wrong , but I seem to be peaking and not improving much. Not sure if I should keep doing more or do something else.


I feel the same way. I'm very slowly getting better on some of my weakest subjects, but I'm actually getting lower on some of my best subjects when I get randomly hit with super hard questions. I'm certainly not going to be getting north of 80% on anything. 75% is about as high as I get barring some really lucky session.

75% is pretty high, you know

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Tanicius
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Tanicius » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:00 pm

LeDique wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
shock259 wrote:Is there any sort of consensus on how many MBE questions is "enough" for an average person? I'm doing a lot. Still getting a fair number wrong , but I seem to be peaking and not improving much. Not sure if I should keep doing more or do something else.


I feel the same way. I'm very slowly getting better on some of my weakest subjects, but I'm actually getting lower on some of my best subjects when I get randomly hit with super hard questions. I'm certainly not going to be getting north of 80% on anything. 75% is about as high as I get barring some really lucky session.

75% is pretty high, you know


Yeah, I'm saying, that's my ceiling for subjects that I knew like the back of my hand before I even started studying for the bar. I have literally memorized the FRE since before law school, and I still can't get above 75% on Evidence absent extraordinary luck. Most of my subjects are in the 65-70% window. Property's below 60.

annalisa
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby annalisa » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:21 am

Tanicius wrote:
LeDique wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
shock259 wrote:Is there any sort of consensus on how many MBE questions is "enough" for an average person? I'm doing a lot. Still getting a fair number wrong , but I seem to be peaking and not improving much. Not sure if I should keep doing more or do something else.


I feel the same way. I'm very slowly getting better on some of my weakest subjects, but I'm actually getting lower on some of my best subjects when I get randomly hit with super hard questions. I'm certainly not going to be getting north of 80% on anything. 75% is about as high as I get barring some really lucky session.

75% is pretty high, you know


Yeah, I'm saying, that's my ceiling for subjects that I knew like the back of my hand before I even started studying for the bar. I have literally memorized the FRE since before law school, and I still can't get above 75% on Evidence absent extraordinary luck. Most of my subjects are in the 65-70% window. Property's below 60.


Seems like we have pretty similar averages based on the subject areas. Do you all ever feel like there is no clear pattern (for lack of a better word) to your averages? What I'm talking about is at least 33 mixed question quizzes, the overall score, not the breakdown by subject. For example, I'm usually in high 60s, low 70s, then I will get one random quiz where I shoot up to 75%, then the next two are mid 50s, maybe 60s if I'm lucky.

What I need to do is figure this pattern out, so MBE day is my 75% day..hmm.. lol

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby DMXdawg » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:40 am

You guys realize that 75% is really high? That's great--Kaplan also tells you the breakdown. My friend last year did all 2,000 questions, was averaging at around 65%, and scored above a 160 on the MBE. 75% probably means you're around 175 or so...you guys are killing it. I'm an above-average student at a T-14 and I'm at around ~62% after 900 questions.

sidhesadie
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sidhesadie » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:08 am

DMXdawg wrote:You guys realize that 75% is really high? That's great--Kaplan also tells you the breakdown. My friend last year did all 2,000 questions, was averaging at around 65%, and scored above a 160 on the MBE. 75% probably means you're around 175 or so...you guys are killing it. I'm an above-average student at a T-14 and I'm at around ~62% after 900 questions.



Really? This makes me feel much better. I'm pretty consistently in the 65%ish range, and am consistently over 70% on a couple MBE subjects, which felt like failure. This would be amazing.

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Tanicius
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Tanicius » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:24 am

sidhesadie wrote:
DMXdawg wrote:You guys realize that 75% is really high? That's great--Kaplan also tells you the breakdown. My friend last year did all 2,000 questions, was averaging at around 65%, and scored above a 160 on the MBE. 75% probably means you're around 175 or so...you guys are killing it. I'm an above-average student at a T-14 and I'm at around ~62% after 900 questions.



Really? This makes me feel much better. I'm pretty consistently in the 65%ish range, and am consistently over 70% on a couple MBE subjects, which felt like failure. This would be amazing.


Yeah, at the end of the day, if we're doing average, we're doing fine. We'll all panic at least another 10 times before the test, but try to remember when it happens that you're just panicking because you're stressed and you'll feel better in six hours.

Pokemon
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Pokemon » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:47 pm

So I am kind of behind, but what really worries me is that I seem to have really low memory of subjects I learned really early on. I am still scoring in an ok range on MBE practice, but I cannot name a single rule about MBE Evidence. I think I score ok less because I learn the rules and more because the questions start making sense to me, whatever that means.c

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robin600
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby robin600 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:42 pm

I got a 108 on the midterm, but I'm averaging btw 62-80% on the MCQs. Essays are ok in my MBE areas, I get dinged for format not content so that is good for me. I'm wondering if I would have a passing score in TN with a 108. I seem to do good in short bursts, or maybe the midterm was just incredibly insane. Hoping I pass because I'm not the best test taker.

Also FWIW, I've used the ask the expert section and had them tell me that my response was right and the answer they give was wrong (one was for allowing character evidence in for a self-defense criminal claim, duh).

Also how are people keeping up with memorization. I have no problem memorizing a subject in a day, but then when I need to move on to the next one, the old one just kinda slips. so frustrating

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Tanicius
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Tanicius » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:51 pm

robin600 wrote:I got a 108 on the midterm, but I'm averaging btw 62-80% on the MCQs. Essays are ok in my MBE areas, I get dinged for format not content so that is good for me. I'm wondering if I would have a passing score in TN with a 108. I seem to do good in short bursts, or maybe the midterm was just incredibly insane. Hoping I pass because I'm not the best test taker.

Also FWIW, I've used the ask the expert section and had them tell me that my response was right and the answer they give was wrong (one was for allowing character evidence in for a self-defense criminal claim, duh).

Also how are people keeping up with memorization. I have no problem memorizing a subject in a day, but then when I need to move on to the next one, the old one just kinda slips. so frustrating


Way I see it, you do not need to actually memorize correctly the rules. You need to have speaking familiarity with the rules and larger concepts so you an show the examiners you know how to spot issues and argue facts.




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