KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

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annalisa
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby annalisa » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:26 pm

dogfan14 wrote:I don't understand the point of learning all this federal civil procedure -- at all. We're not studying for February 2015, it's not tested on the MBE. The only thing i can think of is that an essay will address some jurisdictional issue or federal appeals issue, but even the essay will likely focus on NY CPLR.

Thoughts?


I'm going to focus on the state civ pro rules more than the fed rules. I think the main thing to test on would be fed court jurisdiction. Most of my essays have the fed case getting dismissed and sent to state court anyway :P Other than that, I figure the point of the civ pro essay is to make sure you know the distinction between state rules and fed rules.

sidhesadie
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sidhesadie » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:56 pm

JJDancer wrote:
shock259 wrote:Just found this thread! Yay!

I'm trying to catch up on the essays I've been skipping. Submitted 3 so far today (which I wrote while watching World Cup games). I hate doing these dumb things. Pretty sure my feedback on them is going to be real bad. That said, I'm happy with how I'm doing on the MBEs.

Also, there were some posts in another bar prep thread about the quality of the MBE questions. I think a lot of them are crap. They are either vague, require you to assume something that's a total leap, or subject to genuine dispute. It's mostly poor drafting. I just don't sweat it when I miss those.

I did notice that there were a lot less of those in the midterm MBE than there are in the regular MBE question bank, though. I think there are just some old crappy questions that Kaplan keeps around.


I thought the midterm was actual previous bar questions ?



my understanding was that the "bar application questions" in the outline book are definitely former bar questions, which gives me hope because those are SO MUCH EASIER than the shitty Qbank questions.

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a male human
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:03 am

Here is an unsolicited tip for July 4th. I do not think you should break the chain, i.e., you should do something bar related every day. There is a mental attention-switching cost, and getting back into the groove after taking too long of a time off will be harder.

That said, I know 7/4 is a big holiday, and Kaplan's calendar has a blank day (and you should take some time off to avoid burnout). If I were you, though, I would still do something small, whatever makes you comfortable and easy doing.

Perhaps you could sneak in a couple of MBE questions right after you wake up. If you decide to do that, have those questions ready to go the night before for an even easier time in the morning. Sit on the chair, crank out a couple problems and review them, all in 5 minutes. Done. Now you can get on with the rest of your day with a smile, guilt-free.

If doing that gets you motivated to do essays or more MBEs, then of course go ahead and do them.

Just my 1 cent!

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LeDique
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby LeDique » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:06 am

yea i bet those 5 questions tmrw morning will really make a difference on july 29 :jerking off smiley:

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:19 am

LeDique wrote:yea i bet those 5 questions tmrw morning will really make a difference on july 29 :jerking off smiley:

Username makes post :lol:

It's going to make more of an impact in your overall study habit. If you take the entire day off (which some people do), you will have a harder time getting back into the flow. "Ugh, I hate this. Maybe I will take another day off... Yeah, it's a long weekend..." On the other hand, if you do a few questions, yet reserve the rest of the day to yourself and holiday activities, don't you think you might still feel like you're in bar mode, thus giving you a motivational advantage?

Remember habit evidence? That's probably the most powerful type of extrinsic evidence because habits are ingrained in people. If spending 10 minutes in the morning might give you that extra edge, don't you think it's worth trying?

There's my second cent.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:48 am

a male human wrote:
LeDique wrote:yea i bet those 5 questions tmrw morning will really make a difference on july 29 :jerking off smiley:

Username makes post :lol:

It's going to make more of an impact in your overall study habit. If you take the entire day off (which some people do), you will have a harder time getting back into the flow. "Ugh, I hate this. Maybe I will take another day off... Yeah, it's a long weekend..." On the other hand, if you do a few questions, yet reserve the rest of the day to yourself and holiday activities, don't you think you might still feel like you're in bar mode, thus giving you a motivational advantage?

Remember habit evidence? That's probably the most powerful type of extrinsic evidence because habits are ingrained in people. If spending 10 minutes in the morning might give you that extra edge, don't you think it's worth trying?

There's my second cent.

Shit, do other people not take weekends off?! Lol

That being said I'm on my way to a casino which means I will be sitting in the hotel room studying today.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:15 pm

I was just looking through my state workbook with essays, performance tests, and a simulated practice exam. I noticed they have descriptions of and instructions for what to do on all the different types of MPTs they could throw at us. Was I supposed to know that was there? Grant it, during the MPT workshop, I kind of skipped through the video of the lady explaining it because I didn't need her to explain every little thing to me, but did they ever mention that was there or were we just supposed to figure it out on our own?

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:20 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:I was just looking through my state workbook with essays, performance tests, and a simulated practice exam. I noticed they have descriptions of and instructions for what to do on all the different types of MPTs they could throw at us. Was I supposed to know that was there? Grant it, during the MPT workshop, I kind of skipped through the video of the lady explaining it because I didn't need her to explain every little thing to me, but did they ever mention that was there or were we just supposed to figure it out on our own?

I didn't know this existed, but I have basically skipped every essay video or stopped watching within a few minutes since they are so terrible.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:22 pm

I keep doing QBank questions and I just keep doing worse on them. Like there was a point where I was getting 65-68% regularly and now just the past several times its like 45-50%.

And then when I read the answers over, I'm like are you kidding me? I don't know, are the questions dumb or am I just dumb? You would think I would be doing better - I feel like I know things better than I used to.

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:34 pm

Don't Qbank questions get harder as they adjust to your skill? I didn't really use it all that much, but I think some of the questions are kind of weird.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:55 pm

Do they? That must be it. Because I'm just thinking about how dumb these questions are. I used to do them and when I got one wrong, I would be like OK, I get it. But now I'm like ugh, go eff yourself, stupid question. It's gotten to the point where I don't even feel like doing them is helping me study.

dogfan14
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby dogfan14 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:01 pm

I am certain they are getting harder w/stupid answers. I actually e-mailed Kaplan about it because I was so frustrated with the quality of some of the answers I saw. If you do them, include ones that you have done before (i.e. old questions). I also got the Emanuel's supplement for more official MBE Qs, which helps a lot for balance/new Qs.

Also, what is this Fed Civ Pro checkpoint quiz having 40+ questions. FORTY+? are you joking? (Yes I'm skipping around)
Last edited by dogfan14 on Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:23 pm

What's the point of having MC questions for essay subjects? Does Barbri do this, too?

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:27 pm

No they don't. My friend said she didn't have any checkpoint quizzes after her non-mbe subjects.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:41 pm

a male human wrote:What's the point of having MC questions for essay subjects? Does Barbri do this, too?

Reading the explanations for the MC really drills down the important rules for me so I appreciate them. All of bar prep is really optional/subject risks region so if they for help you than you scan just skip them or not take them seriously

objctnyrhnr
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby objctnyrhnr » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:44 pm

how confident do you guys feel at this point about being able to do some subjects' essays w/o using the outline? I can do my couple strongest from memory, but for the rest, I am not even close.

This presupposes, however, that Kaplan is telling the truth when they encourage us to use those exact rule statements. What do we think about the necessity of learning these rule statements? Is this legit? If so, what is the best way to do this? Flashcards? A ton of essays?

dogfan14
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby dogfan14 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:55 pm

Re: essays- my impression is that you don't need to spit out a rule verbatim to what Kaplan says, but you do need to be correct in IDing what the rule is and its elements. AND that it's best to include as many related, relevant rules as possible to show breadth of knowledge/ability to contextualize the rule in the subject area.

I have found flashcards helpful for rule/element memorization plus doing the essays to see where my shortcomings are re: memorization.

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:00 pm

dogfan14 wrote:Re: essays- my impression is that you don't need to spit out a rule verbatim to what Kaplan says, but you do need to be correct in IDing what the rule is and its elements. AND that it's best to include as many related, relevant rules as possible to show breadth of knowledge/ability to contextualize the rule in the subject area.

Agreed. The rules don't have to be identical to whatever you read in outlines as long as you include the main elements in a clear, acceptable manner. Be sure you can actually recite the concepts or rules on your own from scratch, not merely be familiar with them.

Beware of Kaplan's model answers because they literally dump the outline in essay format. This is good for knowing which law to apply I guess, but only recite relevant things on the real thing.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby objctnyrhnr » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:18 pm

let's assume low 70%'s on MBE performance in a state in the middle of the difficulty range

What kind of essay proficiency do we think is required for passage? Let's take Kaplan's grading scale. How many 5's, and 6's are really necessary, and how many 2's and 3's can one get and still pass?

My biggest issue with Kaplan is that they're always telling us "the median of you guys got this or that." It's like I don't give a shit what the MEDIAN does. What I want to know is what the worst test-taker does who still manages to pass. I want to base my performance on that guy.

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:25 pm

It depends on whether the MBE is worth 1/3 or 1/2 of your grade. In a state like CA, where it's worth 1/3, you probably need to nail at least some of the written essays or PTs. Even in a state in the middle of the difficulty range assuming the MBE is 1/2, median is probably enough because the pass rate is like 80%, right? 70% MBE is already great.

annalisa
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby annalisa » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:27 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:Do they? That must be it. Because I'm just thinking about how dumb these questions are. I used to do them and when I got one wrong, I would be like OK, I get it. But now I'm like ugh, go eff yourself, stupid question. It's gotten to the point where I don't even feel like doing them is helping me study.


I am in the same boat! If the Qbank really does get harder as you go along I feel a little better but still, my averages are dropping and it is frustrating. I know this is what they want, but UGH

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:05 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:I was just looking through my state workbook with essays, performance tests, and a simulated practice exam. I noticed they have descriptions of and instructions for what to do on all the different types of MPTs they could throw at us. Was I supposed to know that was there? Grant it, during the MPT workshop, I kind of skipped through the video of the lady explaining it because I didn't need her to explain every little thing to me, but did they ever mention that was there or were we just supposed to figure it out on our own?

I think it was mentioned, though I don't recall where because I had that section "flagged" with a post it as "forms" in my Book and I doubt I just decided to skim the book for important things to flag #notthatgirl lol.

sidhesadie
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sidhesadie » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:12 pm

annalisa wrote:
sandcastle45 wrote:Do they? That must be it. Because I'm just thinking about how dumb these questions are. I used to do them and when I got one wrong, I would be like OK, I get it. But now I'm like ugh, go eff yourself, stupid question. It's gotten to the point where I don't even feel like doing them is helping me study.


I am in the same boat! If the Qbank really does get harder as you go along I feel a little better but still, my averages are dropping and it is frustrating. I know this is what they want, but UGH



My scores on the Qbank q's is dropping too. So, at least we're all in the same boat, I guess?

Also I almost threw the computer across the room the other day, because I SWEAR the Torts guy, in the lecture about strict liability, gave an example of a specific case where a hairdresser used a perm solution and caused chemical burns, and the court said that the person could sue in strict liability even though normally you can't for services, because this was "unlike a dentist or doctor", where there was significant skill required. I remembered it specifically because I used to be a hairdresser and it made me a little mad, because you can't just dump a box of perm solution on someone's head, there is a lot more skill involved than that. Anyway, then I got a Qbank question with that EXACT fact scenario, and the answer was she can't sue under a strict liability theory because "service providers like hairdressers and doctors" generally can't be.
OMG. SO RAGEY.

I'm starting to think my scores are dropping from watching too many of their stupid lectures.

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:39 pm

I would use lectures for review, not for learning. Is that idea too wild? Lecturers can make mistakes or wing some parts. They are also severely annoying. Written materials generally should be the final authority. Except Qbank questions because they made up and may not be consistent with one another or with the law.

sidhesadie
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sidhesadie » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:24 pm

a male human wrote:I would use lectures for review, not for learning. Is that idea too wild? Lecturers can make mistakes or wing some parts. They are also severely annoying. Written materials generally should be the final authority. Except Qbank questions because they made up and may not be consistent with one another or with the law.


Some people are auditory learners, you do know that right? It's why some of us actually went to class in law school.

Also, I'm not sure I should trust the Kaplan produced written outline over the Kaplan produced lecture over the Kaplan produced Qbank question. IT IS ALL SUSPECT.




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