KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:35 pm

Oh good, that makes me feel better. I keep getting the sense everyone is doing way more than I am.

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:45 pm

JenDarby wrote:Oh good, that makes me feel better. I keep getting the sense everyone is doing way more than I am.


Don't worry. I'm taking CA bar too, but have only done 4 essays and 1 PT so far. My thinking is that I will be done with the substantive stuff by the end of the weekend, then have a month to practice essays and PTs, while continuing to review/make those one-shitters/practice MBEs.

I'll probably do 5 essays, one PT, and a couple hundred MBEs each week when I get to that point.... I am a minimalist too. Cheers!

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:53 pm

Anyone else feel that some of these MBEs are pretty subjective?

I had one where a bouncer was hired at a bar; then one night a customer commented that the bouncer's big head was blocking the TV; the bouncer got mad and hit the customer; customer sued for battery; is the bar owner vicariously liable.

I forgot what all the answer choices were, but I picked he was not liable because it was an intentional tort outside the scope of employment. The correct answer was that he was liable because although an intentional tort, it was in furtherance of the business (according to the Ask an Expert response I got). But how is that? The bouncer got mad (it said so in the facts) and punched the guy because he made fun of his head size... dispersing of drunks and throwing people out is part of the job of a bouncer, but not punching people in the face because they made fun of you.

Another one where a guy was walking and tripped over a faulty step in front of a business; a lady witnessed the fall from several yards away and said "I can't believe a business would leave their steps in such a condition"- is her statement admissible in a suit brought by the guy against the business? There was no mention of whether she was available to testify or not, and Present Sense Impression was not a choice... the correct choice was Yes as an Excited Utterance and the explanation was because she was startled when she witnessed the accident.

Really? A guy falls down 20 yards away from you and you are startled? Laughing maybe, but startled enough for excited utterance? Come on.

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:57 am

Mr. Pink wrote:Anyone else feel that some of these MBEs are pretty subjective?

I had one where a bouncer was hired at a bar; then one night a customer commented that the bouncer's big head was blocking the TV; the bouncer got mad and hit the customer; customer sued for battery; is the bar owner vicariously liable.

I forgot what all the answer choices were, but I picked he was not liable because it was an intentional tort outside the scope of employment. The correct answer was that he was liable because although an intentional tort, it was in furtherance of the business (according to the Ask an Expert response I got). But how is that? The bouncer got mad (it said so in the facts) and punched the guy because he made fun of his head size... dispersing of drunks and throwing people out is part of the job of a bouncer, but not punching people in the face because they made fun of you.

Another one where a guy was walking and tripped over a faulty step in front of a business; a lady witnessed the fall from several yards away and said "I can't believe a business would leave their steps in such a condition"- is her statement admissible in a suit brought by the guy against the business? There was no mention of whether she was available to testify or not, and Present Sense Impression was not a choice... the correct choice was Yes as an Excited Utterance and the explanation was because she was startled when she witnessed the accident.

Really? A guy falls down 20 yards away from you and you are startled? Laughing maybe, but startled enough for excited utterance? Come on.


For the first one, I do get why they say vicarious liability exists. I think about it as basically being are they doing something thats kind of in the job description/similar act - so a bouncer is supposed to be kind of intimidating/keep people in check. It wasn't like the guy told the bouncer I slept with your gf last night and then the bouncer punched him.

The second one seems more ambiguous but I think it comes down to picking the best answer maybe? I don't think present sense would have applied because it's supposed to describe/explain and she was in "disbelief" so I think even if it isn't that shocking, it's an excited utterance.

Damn subtlety

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:17 pm

Just found this thread! Yay!

I'm trying to catch up on the essays I've been skipping. Submitted 3 so far today (which I wrote while watching World Cup games). I hate doing these dumb things. Pretty sure my feedback on them is going to be real bad. That said, I'm happy with how I'm doing on the MBEs.

Also, there were some posts in another bar prep thread about the quality of the MBE questions. I think a lot of them are crap. They are either vague, require you to assume something that's a total leap, or subject to genuine dispute. It's mostly poor drafting. I just don't sweat it when I miss those.

I did notice that there were a lot less of those in the midterm MBE than there are in the regular MBE question bank, though. I think there are just some old crappy questions that Kaplan keeps around.

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:10 pm

shock259 wrote:Just found this thread! Yay!

I'm trying to catch up on the essays I've been skipping. Submitted 3 so far today (which I wrote while watching World Cup games). I hate doing these dumb things. Pretty sure my feedback on them is going to be real bad. That said, I'm happy with how I'm doing on the MBEs.

Also, there were some posts in another bar prep thread about the quality of the MBE questions. I think a lot of them are crap. They are either vague, require you to assume something that's a total leap, or subject to genuine dispute. It's mostly poor drafting. I just don't sweat it when I miss those.

I did notice that there were a lot less of those in the midterm MBE than there are in the regular MBE question bank, though. I think there are just some old crappy questions that Kaplan keeps around.


I thought the midterm was actual previous bar questions ?

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:41 pm

Was it? If so, awesome.

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Grenadine
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Grenadine » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:05 pm

I can't tell if I'm just an idiot or if the essay graders are trying to be harsh to scare us into practicing more but I've gotten a 2/2.5 on literally every essay I've submitted, ranging from questions where I couldn't remember the rules and flat-out got the law wrong, to easy questions where I actually knew what I was doing. The comments are really minor critiques/largely complimentary, too, which, like, thanks for telling me I know the law/made good points/am special and awesome, but then why are you telling me I'm going to fail this shit?

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:55 am

Grenadine wrote:I can't tell if I'm just an idiot or if the essay graders are trying to be harsh to scare us into practicing more but I've gotten a 2/2.5 on literally every essay I've submitted, ranging from questions where I couldn't remember the rules and flat-out got the law wrong, to easy questions where I actually knew what I was doing. The comments are really minor critiques/largely complimentary, too, which, like, thanks for telling me I know the law/made good points/am special and awesome, but then why are you telling me I'm going to fail this shit?


I'm not sure what you mean by a 2/2.5 on essays.... but I have loved the feedback on the few that I have submitted so far. I wish there were more comments on the particulars from the grader, but the "general" feedback helps you hone in on which areas you need to improve. SO far I have gotten 70s on the 4 essays I have submitted, which surprised me because I felt lost writing them.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:05 pm

Did anyone take the midterm yet? I got a 103. I know I'm terrible at property, so that's not helping, but my other biggest problem is that I'll doubt myself. Like I will think just on instinct it should be an answer and then I'll start thinking too hard about what rule I think I should apply and then change my answer based on that, and it turns out my first answer was right. Arghhhhh. Haven't looked over the whole thing yet but that's happened at least on a couple of answers.

Is this a terrible score? :cry:

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:10 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:Did anyone take the midterm yet? I got a 103. I know I'm terrible at property, so that's not helping, but my other biggest problem is that I'll doubt myself. Like I will think just on instinct it should be an answer and then I'll start thinking too hard about what rule I think I should apply and then change my answer based on that, and it turns out my first answer was right. Arghhhhh. Haven't looked over the whole thing yet but that's happened at least on a couple of answers.

Is this a terrible score? :cry:

The video says you should "worry" if you are at 90 or below, and that the average is 115-117. There is still plenty of time to review and boost your scores. You certainly shouldn't feel badly, but note your weaknesses and continue to do MBE questions focusing on those areas where you have trouble and minimizing your self doubt.

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bazinga!
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby bazinga! » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:49 pm

The typos in the bar notes are just ridiculous. I just can't even deal with them sometimes! Anyone else feel me, or has bar review made me unnecessarily rage-monster?

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:22 pm

bazinga! wrote:The typos in the bar notes are just ridiculous. I just can't even deal with them sometimes! Anyone else feel me, or has bar review made me unnecessarily rage-monster?


Haha, probably a little a both. I get pissed off too at certain explanatory answers, or when the lecturer spends way too much time explaining something trivial, then flies through something complicated.

I just finished up the Agency/Partnership?Corporation modules and the guy doing them is giving the Wills/Trusts lady a run for worst lecturer. Most of the lecture is just reading straight from the outline... I have a law degree, I do not need someone to read to me. I ended up saying fuck it and just quit and submitted blank checkpoint quizzes.

Then I remember hearing that there is a good chance Partnership/Corporation will be on the CA bar, so I need to go back and review at some point, just not now cause I'm so frustrated with that guy.

JJDancer
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:48 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:Did anyone take the midterm yet? I got a 103. I know I'm terrible at property, so that's not helping, but my other biggest problem is that I'll doubt myself. Like I will think just on instinct it should be an answer and then I'll start thinking too hard about what rule I think I should apply and then change my answer based on that, and it turns out my first answer was right. Arghhhhh. Haven't looked over the whole thing yet but that's happened at least on a couple of answers.

Is this a terrible score? :cry:

I'm with you- got a 102. Property was my worst too. I haven't looked over it yet but I noted choice answer 1& 2 because I was between two for SO MANY. I'll have to see if I went with the wrong one or was way off.

I'm going to try not to stress about it because I know I still have a lot to learn (for example I have no idea what the rule for anticipatory repudiation is). I think just reviewing all the answers and explanations will be really helpful.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:05 am

Yeah, I'm trying not to stress TOO hard. It kind of makes me mad though that they left Property for RIGHT before the midterm. I didn't even get a chance to review. They should have had it like right after Contracts or something. That's a subject you need a TON of review in. Couldn't they have put something easier before the midterm like con law?

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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JJDancer » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:41 pm

shock259 wrote:Was it? If so, awesome.


Actually no they were Kaplan Qs.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:37 pm

JJDancer wrote:
sandcastle45 wrote:Did anyone take the midterm yet? I got a 103. I know I'm terrible at property, so that's not helping, but my other biggest problem is that I'll doubt myself. Like I will think just on instinct it should be an answer and then I'll start thinking too hard about what rule I think I should apply and then change my answer based on that, and it turns out my first answer was right. Arghhhhh. Haven't looked over the whole thing yet but that's happened at least on a couple of answers.

Is this a terrible score? :cry:

I'm with you- got a 102. Property was my worst too. I haven't looked over it yet but I noted choice answer 1& 2 because I was between two for SO MANY. I'll have to see if I went with the wrong one or was way off.

I'm going to try not to stress about it because I know I still have a lot to learn (for example I have no idea what the rule for anticipatory repudiation is). I think just reviewing all the answers and explanations will be really helpful.

Reviewing it might be worse than actually taking it. I am through reviewing 150 and have spread it out over 2 days. I think the explanations are helpful, so I copied and pasted the correct answer explanations into a document that I will surely never ever look at.

a_ela1
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a_ela1 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:15 am

sandcastle45 wrote:Is it just me or is this property guy fucking terrible on the mortgages part of the property lecture? I seriously can't follow him; he's not keeping up with the way the outline is set up. And I keep trying to look in the given outline but that doesn't match up either! Ughhhhh.



I rewound the entire mortgages section probably 3 or 4 times, then threw my hands up and skipped over it. I'll come back to it eventually. I really REALLY want to just say screw the mortgages all together and learn everything else really well, but at this point I'm a little too on edge to let it go.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:39 am

Some of the questions on this midterm are making me mad. There's the one about the woman who goes in for surgery for a brain tumor and the doctor doesn't tell her that there's a 20% chance she could lose sight in her eye because of the surgery. Can she sue him for battery? I was struggling with this question because I didn't think any of the answer choices really made sense, so I just ended up picking one. Apparently the right answer is that "a reasonable person in the patient's position would not have consented to the surgery if informed of the risk involved."

Is it just me or is that highly subjective? I don't think a 20% risk is enough to OBJECTIVELY say that ABSOLUTELY NO REASONABLE person would consent to that surgery. She had a freaking brain tumor. The reason I didn't pick that answer was because I might have still consented to the surgery to get rid of the FREAKING BRAIN TUMOR and I like to think I'm a reasonable person.

shock259
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby shock259 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:00 pm

I missed that same question and thought the exact same thing. Some of the questions are just dumb. You clearly know the underlying law and how to apply it, so I'd just move on and don't sweat it. But I hear you.

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JenDarby
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby JenDarby » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:29 pm

shock259 wrote:I missed that same question and thought the exact same thing. Some of the questions are just dumb. You clearly know the underlying law and how to apply it, so I'd just move on and don't sweat it. But I hear you.

I also answered the same way. ITS A BRAIN TUMOR, it sounded kind of serious.

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:45 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:Some of the questions on this midterm are making me mad. There's the one about the woman who goes in for surgery for a brain tumor and the doctor doesn't tell her that there's a 20% chance she could lose sight in her eye because of the surgery. Can she sue him for battery? I was struggling with this question because I didn't think any of the answer choices really made sense, so I just ended up picking one. Apparently the right answer is that "a reasonable person in the patient's position would not have consented to the surgery if informed of the risk involved."

Is it just me or is that highly subjective? I don't think a 20% risk is enough to OBJECTIVELY say that ABSOLUTELY NO REASONABLE person would consent to that surgery. She had a freaking brain tumor. The reason I didn't pick that answer was because I might have still consented to the surgery to get rid of the FREAKING BRAIN TUMOR and I like to think I'm a reasonable person.


Yep, very subjective in my opinion too. It makes for a good essay question, but not a "black and white" MBE question. I got it right, but only because I recognized the fact pattern. Bottom line is that he needed to disclose that fact to her, and because he didn't, he can be held liable because she would have refused (if I remember the question correctly, it said that had she known this, she would not have consented to the surgery... or something to that effect?)

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Mr. Pink
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby Mr. Pink » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:48 pm

a_ela1 wrote:
sandcastle45 wrote:Is it just me or is this property guy fucking terrible on the mortgages part of the property lecture? I seriously can't follow him; he's not keeping up with the way the outline is set up. And I keep trying to look in the given outline but that doesn't match up either! Ughhhhh.



I rewound the entire mortgages section probably 3 or 4 times, then threw my hands up and skipped over it. I'll come back to it eventually. I really REALLY want to just say screw the mortgages all together and learn everything else really well, but at this point I'm a little too on edge to let it go.



You need to recognize that the lectures are overviews for the course... he isn't there to teach you the law, that's what law school is for. If you have problems with material maybe your notes from your property class would help? I don't know, I didn't have any problems with it because I understood the material so when he was briefing the outline I was still able to follow.

sandcastle45
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby sandcastle45 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:33 pm

Well, what happens if your law school professors didn't teach you the law? My property notes wouldn't help; we didn't cover mortgages. And the only thing we covered in torts was negligence sooooooo…yeah.

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a male human
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Re: KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout

Postby a male human » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:40 pm

If the outlines don't cover it, you can always learn the law by doing the MBE questions :)




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