KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout Forum

[semplice]

Do you guys plan on taking the additional MBE practice exam? If so, when?

I just took the MBE final; I am really surprised about my answer patterns. That is, I will go for around 15 questions, getting about 80% right, and then for the next 15 questions would miss over 60-70% of the answers. Did anyone else have a similar experience? Cannot tell whether they make groups of questions harder than other ones, or whether I have low endurance so my brain logs on and off as I go through exam.

I think that has more to do with the difficult of the questions than anything. Mine was similar. I had one streak where I got almost 25 right in a row. And then I had ones where I missed a LOT.

I do think I am going to do the additional MBE, though. I think maybe the Friday before the exam. Enough time to review it. I just hope the results don't stress me out.

Same here on all counts. I started off 23/25, then from 100-125 I missed twenty or so.

Interesting that many of us have this issue. It's happening to me too. For me it doesn't seem to correspond much to the difficulty of the question. Even though my overall results are a bit above the "average" numbers they've given us, I often miss five statistically easy questions in a row.

I read an interview a few days ago where someone mentions this phenomenon-- http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/mbe-strategies. He says the wrong streaks often come when you get a difficult question, lose your composure, and don't manage to clear your head before you move on to the next question. He says to pause after the unusually difficult questions, take a deep breath, and gather yourself before moving on. Another thing that might help is keeping a list of question numbers to return to on your scrap paper. It might be easier to let it go if you know you'll have easy access to it later.

[Pokemon]

Yeah. In my case also it does not seem to respond too much to the difficulty. When reviewing the questions it literally looks like my brain turns off and then comes back on.

Ps... I am think of buying smartbarprep for essays. Anyone has any practice with it?

[JenDarby]

Yeah. In my case also it does not seem to respond too much to the difficulty. When reviewing the questions it literally looks like my brain turns off and then comes back on.

Ps... I am think of buying smartbarprep for essays. Anyone has any practice with it?

I'm on my halfway point in the final simulated MBE and there were definitely some points where my brain turned off. I wish I didn't have to do 100 more questions to find out how I did on the first 100 lol.

[Pokemon]

Yeah. In my case also it does not seem to respond too much to the difficulty. When reviewing the questions it literally looks like my brain turns off and then comes back on.

Ps... I am think of buying smartbarprep for essays. Anyone has any practice with it?

I'm on my halfway point in the final simulated MBE and there were definitely some points where my brain turned off. I wish I didn't have to do 100 more questions to find out how I did on the first 100 lol.

I used the book just so I could check my first 100. I also actually did much worse on my first 100. I would have expected the opposite because of tiredness.

[JJDancer]

Yeah. In my case also it does not seem to respond too much to the difficulty. When reviewing the questions it literally looks like my brain turns off and then comes back on.

Ps... I am think of buying smartbarprep for essays. Anyone has any practice with it?

I'm on my halfway point in the final simulated MBE and there were definitely some points where my brain turned off. I wish I didn't have to do 100 more questions to find out how I did on the first 100 lol.

I used the book just so I could check my first 100. I also actually did much worse on my first 100. I would have expected the opposite because of tiredness.

I checked with the book after the first 100 as well. I did slightly better in the first 100 than the 2nd, found the 2nd hundred to be harder (for me).

[JenDarby]

I submitted 4 essays. My first two were 4/10 and 5/10 and my second two were 8/10 and 9/10. Basically all I changed was STRICT ADHERENCE to IRAC, restating issues in a really obvious fashions, using conclusions as sub headings, and using facts way more than I am generally comfortable with.

I really hope that on the bar its the case that formatting and using facts mean so much.

BTW -- for the 9/10 essay I came to an ENTIRELY different conclusion than the sample essay (which I thought was objectively wrong since it didn't mention ouster in tenancy in common adverse possession case). The comments were, "You recognized and addressed each of the questions pertinent to the call of the question. You have incorporated sufficient facts from the case to substantiate the conclusion. IRAC standards are evident throughout."

[shock259]

Are you actually starting each point with an issue statement? I'm starting to think I should do that. I have always written answers (in law school and here) by just stating the rule. By stating the rule that may or may not apply, I'm implying that the issue is whether or not it applies. But maybe it would help to actually just state it? I guess it's only one sentence...

"The issue is whether or not C is liable for intentional infliction of emotional distress."

[JenDarby]

Are you actually starting each point with an issue statement? I'm starting to think I should do that. I have always written answers (in law school and here) by just stating the rule. By stating the rule that may or may not apply, I'm implying that the issue is whether or not it applies. But maybe it would help to actually just state it? I guess it's only one sentence...

"The issue is whether or not C is liable for intentional infliction of emotional distress."

I feel really silly when I do it, but yes.

My essays end up looking like this:

1. (a) The court should dismiss the motion for summary judgment.

The first issue is whether or not Tom's motion for summary judgment on the issue of X should be dismissed.

(Rule)

(Application)

(conclusion...again.)

I think since basic competency and literacy are being tested here, its beneficial to not have any nuances of any sort lol.

[northwood]

Are you actually starting each point with an issue statement? I'm starting to think I should do that. I have always written answers (in law school and here) by just stating the rule. By stating the rule that may or may not apply, I'm implying that the issue is whether or not it applies. But maybe it would help to actually just state it? I guess it's only one sentence...

"The issue is whether or not C is liable for intentional infliction of emotional distress."

I think for this exam its best not to do things drastically different. Remember the graders will probably only take a look at your essay for about 1-2 minutes ( and who knows what their mental state will be when they get to you). so I personally would not do anything totally different like change the format. if you want to go further with your Issue statement, then do it. but I wouldn't just jump head over heels into the rules

[shock259]

Makes sense! I should break it out into paragraphs for each one too. Nice tip. Thanks!

[JenDarby]

Are you actually starting each point with an issue statement? I'm starting to think I should do that. I have always written answers (in law school and here) by just stating the rule. By stating the rule that may or may not apply, I'm implying that the issue is whether or not it applies. But maybe it would help to actually just state it? I guess it's only one sentence...

"The issue is whether or not C is liable for intentional infliction of emotional distress."

I think for this exam its best not to do things drastically different. Remember the graders will probably only take a look at your essay for about 1-2 minutes ( and who knows what their mental state will be when they get to you). so I personally would not do anything totally different like change the format. if you want to go further with your Issue statement, then do it. but I wouldn't just jump head over heels into the rules

I think this is EXACTLY why you SHOULD do a very obvious format that separates out the issue, rule, application, and conclusion. If they are just doing a cursory glance at your essay than seeing you hit all those required points without having to look for them and find them could only be beneficial.

[JenDarby]

Just did my "final" MBE under test-like conditions. I finished all 200 questions in a little over 4 hours. Got 130/200, or 65%. Was hoping for higher, as I got 134/200 on the midterm. Guess it's time to review everything, update my notes, and motivate myself to keep on studying.

Not sure what my final attack plan is going to be for these last two weeks. Scared that I'm going to burn out if I do too many MBEs/day. But maybe that's my best bet.

Here's my ambitious daily plan:
1) Review lean sheets each morning, force myself to memorize elements
2) Do ~100 MBEs
3) Outline a few essays
4) Do ~30 NY MC
5) ??

Maybe I should do the additional full-length MBE at some point, too?

Edit: has anyone looked at this "final study plan"? It doesn't seem all that helpful. Just tells me to review everything as far as I can tell. And only assigns ~15 MBEs each day.

How is this plan going for you?

I did the practice MBE today, and now I am going to review answers so that pretty much wipes out the entire day. I was doing really well on MBE questions in the QBank and then ended up with a 110 on the midterm. I went up to a 140 on this one, so I'm satisfied with that. I really hope these questions are representative or harder than those on the bar.

I think tomorrow I will read outlines and lean sheets, and do 100 MBEs, and that will be my general plan. I probably won't spend too much time on NY MC. As far as essays, I will just outline or read some outline and sample essays.

Sometime next week I am going to skim through the workbook to preview the different types of MPT questions REALLY briefly.

[shock259]

I modified it a bit. Here's my new one:

1) Review NY attack outlines for all NY subjects
2) outline 5 random essays, review answers
3) Do 30 NY MC
4) review 1 NY topic thoroughly (starting with most frequently tested, working my way down)
5) Review MBE attack outlines for all MBE subjects
6) Do 50 MBEs
7) Anything else that feels like it needs doing (IE anything that came up on the essays that stumped me, random memorization, etc)

This one is working really well so far. The first one I posted was too many MBEs. Also, reviewing notes is more helpful than I thought it would be, so I've added more of that.

[LeDique]

I was doing really well on MBE questions in the QBank and then ended up with a 110 on the midterm. I went up to a 140 on this one, so I'm satisfied with that. I really hope these questions are representative or harder than those on the bar.

I just did really well on the final, but I also thought it was really hard and was surprised by how well I did. It felt a little harder than general MBE QBank questions even to me, and I think the whole QBank is harder than the bar—there's some video that says like "if questions were 1-10 difficulty, we have mostly 5+, so way more than the bar, because that's how you learn."

Plus, I bet they made it intentionally hard to spur people to freak out more going in to the final stretch

[sandcastle45]

Guys, I feel insanely discouraged. I got a 113 on my final exam; that's without the 15 or 30 points or whatever we're supposed to add now. I got a 103 on my midterm. I just don't understand this and am so freaking frustrated. When I took the midterm, I literally didn't know property at all and was just guessing on all of them. Property's not my best subject but I've been studying a lot and I felt like I knew it a lot better (better than zero!) and I got 42% on property, like basically the same amount as the midterm. I just don't fucking get it. I'm done. Like this is useless and pointless. Since the midterm, I've been memorizing, studying, I just felt like I knew so much more. When I was doing the final, I actually thought I was doing halfway decent. Now I just feel terrible. Like there's literally no point in me studying anymore for 11 days because clearly it doesn't help.

[silky bruh]

Guys, I feel insanely discouraged. I got a 113 on my final exam; that's without the 15 or 30 points or whatever we're supposed to add now. I got a 103 on my midterm. I just don't understand this and am so freaking frustrated. When I took the midterm, I literally didn't know property at all and was just guessing on all of them. Property's not my best subject but I've been studying a lot and I felt like I knew it a lot better (better than zero!) and I got 42% on property, like basically the same amount as the midterm. I just don't fucking get it. I'm done. Like this is useless and pointless. Since the midterm, I've been memorizing, studying, I just felt like I knew so much more. When I was doing the final, I actually thought I was doing halfway decent. Now I just feel terrible. Like there's literally no point in me studying anymore for 11 days because clearly it doesn't help.

If you did better on the final than the midterm you're in great shape. Given how much you've memorized I think you just need to bang out as many questions as you can. The MBE is like the LSAT in that it's a very learnable test.

And I spent 30 minutes reading the E&E for Property RE: mortgages, warranties, etc. and it made all the difference in the world from me. I recommend taking that time to if you're still struggling with it.

[northwood]

Guys, I feel insanely discouraged. I got a 113 on my final exam; that's without the 15 or 30 points or whatever we're supposed to add now. I got a 103 on my midterm. I just don't understand this and am so freaking frustrated. When I took the midterm, I literally didn't know property at all and was just guessing on all of them. Property's not my best subject but I've been studying a lot and I felt like I knew it a lot better (better than zero!) and I got 42% on property, like basically the same amount as the midterm. I just don't fucking get it. I'm done. Like this is useless and pointless. Since the midterm, I've been memorizing, studying, I just felt like I knew so much more. When I was doing the final, I actually thought I was doing halfway decent. Now I just feel terrible. Like there's literally no point in me studying anymore for 11 days because clearly it doesn't help.

I know and appreciate what you are goig through. I just took a full length MBE test the other day and scored a fantastic 116. Was doing great in con law, now con law is killing me. What ive decided is to go back and read all of the answer reasons and just accept the fact that on MBE day con law will be what it will be. Ill give it the good ole fashioned try, but not dwell on it, and choose the answer choice that I think works, set it on the answer sheet and forget about it. Truth of the matter to be told is we know a lot more than we realize, and we've all done a lot of work. Maybe well get lucky on the real deal and get layup response, or maybe we wont. Read this next part and then erase it from your mind: whats the worst thing that can happen if you fail? You get to take the test again in February? Sure maybe you lose your position, but no one is going to harm you, and no one is going to demean you. THe test doesn't determine your self worth, who you are, what you are capable of. rather it tests you on 6-24 subjects of soon to be out-dated law. of that it gets to pick and choose random sub topics and see how you squirm. Great lawyers have failed this thing and then gone on to great things. conversely horrible lawyers have passed this, only to fail in the real world. now continue reading and remember So truth be told, the bar exam is a pompous, arrogant, shiteating prick that no one likes, and only tolerates it because they have to. don't let it get to you. When you are done with the exam, and have left the building tell the exam to eff off and kick rocks. You may not have passed their little test, but that CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE A FAILURE

[JenDarby]

On only on question 5 but I DEFINITELY recommend watching the final MBE videos. Even for the questions so far that I answered correctly, Fromm's tips are really helpful and his explanations are better than those provided on the test.

[bazinga!]

Read this next part and then erase it from your mind: whats the worst thing that can happen if you fail? You get to take the test again in February? Sure maybe you lose your position, but no one is going to harm you, and no one is going to demean you. THe test doesn't determine your self worth, who you are, what you are capable of. rather it tests you on 6-24 subjects of soon to be out-dated law. of that it gets to pick and choose random sub topics and see how you squirm. Great lawyers have failed this thing and then gone on to great things. conversely horrible lawyers have passed this, only to fail in the real world. now continue reading and remember So truth be told, the bar exam is a pompous, arrogant, shiteating prick that no one likes, and only tolerates it because they have to. don't let it get to you. When you are done with the exam, and have left the building tell the exam to eff off and kick rocks. You may not have passed their little test, but that CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE A FAILURE

I know this is likely due to the fact that my baby has had a rough day and I've been stressed about not being able to start studying all day until about two hours ago, but I just read this and started crying. I had some more gut punches on essays and have realized I can quote almost 0% of the law. Not even quote, I can recall and get out in some justifiably worded way almost 0% of the law. I don't know what I'm planning on doing to remedy this with 10 days to study but my plan right now is to start with the FRCP and Family Law bc those have a 100% and 83% test rate and go down the list from there on teh likelihood of being tested. I just...shit. I didn't just shit, actually, but you know.

Also, anybody else studying while primary caregiver to an infant want to chime in on study tips when your day is eaten up until your spouse gets off work?

[LeDique]

On only on question 5 but I DEFINITELY recommend watching the final MBE videos. Even for the questions so far that I answered correctly, Fromm's tips are really helpful and his explanations are better than those provided on the test.

ugh really? i was 100% planning to skip these

[northwood]

Read this next part and then erase it from your mind: whats the worst thing that can happen if you fail? You get to take the test again in February? Sure maybe you lose your position, but no one is going to harm you, and no one is going to demean you. THe test doesn't determine your self worth, who you are, what you are capable of. rather it tests you on 6-24 subjects of soon to be out-dated law. of that it gets to pick and choose random sub topics and see how you squirm. Great lawyers have failed this thing and then gone on to great things. conversely horrible lawyers have passed this, only to fail in the real world. now continue reading and remember So truth be told, the bar exam is a pompous, arrogant, shiteating prick that no one likes, and only tolerates it because they have to. don't let it get to you. When you are done with the exam, and have left the building tell the exam to eff off and kick rocks. You may not have passed their little test, but that CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE A FAILURE

I know this is likely due to the fact that my baby has had a rough day and I've been stressed about not being able to start studying all day until about two hours ago, but I just read this and started crying. I had some more gut punches on essays and have realized I can quote almost 0% of the law. Not even quote, I can recall and get out in some justifiably worded way almost 0% of the law. I don't know what I'm planning on doing to remedy this with 10 days to study but my plan right now is to start with the FRCP and Family Law bc those have a 100% and 83% test rate and go down the list from there on teh likelihood of being tested. I just...shit. I didn't just shit, actually, but you know.

Also, anybody else studying while primary caregiver to an infant want to chime in on study tips when your day is eaten up until your spouse gets off work?

I forgot to add this part: the part you were supposed to forget was the part about letting yourself believe you are going to fail.. If you do not accept the notion of the concept of failure or the concept of a bad day; i.e. that if one or two things, or something other than you says that you are a failure or that NOTHING absolutely NOTHING went right, then you will never be a failure and never have a bad day. Sure will you be told that your performance on some specific date and time was not what they wanted it to be, and will you have days where a lot has not gone as you wished it would. But if you can let yourself know that you did one thing right ( even if you got only 1 question correct out of each set of 100) or that one single thing in your day went well ( even if that was you correctly put your shoes on, or you managed to open your eyes when you work up), then you are not a failure because failure is the absence of satisfaction on the entire test,( which is defeated if you successfully satisfied the answer for 1 question or managed to do one thing as planned; i.e putting on a pair of shoes or opening your eyes upon awakening)

[JenDarby]

On only on question 5 but I DEFINITELY recommend watching the final MBE videos. Even for the questions so far that I answered correctly, Fromm's tips are really helpful and his explanations are better than those provided on the test.

ugh really? i was 100% planning to skip these

If you already reviewed the answers on your own its probably not THAT much more helpful. At that point just download and go through the slides because there are a lot of helpful tips and they cover a fair portion of from Fromm covers.

[cocoapuffs1]

Didn't exactly do as well as I hoped either, also seems like I'm forgetting things I thought I had down. Is anyone else planning on taking the Additional MBE Practice exam in the next week? I'd planned on it, but not sure I want a shot to my confidence right before the big day...

[objctnyrhnr]

Guys, I feel insanely discouraged. I got a 113 on my final exam; that's without the 15 or 30 points or whatever we're supposed to add now. I got a 103 on my midterm. I just don't understand this and am so freaking frustrated. When I took the midterm, I literally didn't know property at all and was just guessing on all of them. Property's not my best subject but I've been studying a lot and I felt like I knew it a lot better (better than zero!) and I got 42% on property, like basically the same amount as the midterm. I just don't fucking get it. I'm done. Like this is useless and pointless. Since the midterm, I've been memorizing, studying, I just felt like I knew so much more. When I was doing the final, I actually thought I was doing halfway decent. Now I just feel terrible. Like there's literally no point in me studying anymore for 11 days because clearly it doesn't help.

I know and appreciate what you are goig through. I just took a full length MBE test the other day and scored a fantastic 116. Was doing great in con law, now con law is killing me. What ive decided is to go back and read all of the answer reasons and just accept the fact that on MBE day con law will be what it will be. Ill give it the good ole fashioned try, but not dwell on it, and choose the answer choice that I think works, set it on the answer sheet and forget about it. Truth of the matter to be told is we know a lot more than we realize, and we've all done a lot of work. Maybe well get lucky on the real deal and get layup response, or maybe we wont. Read this next part and then erase it from your mind: whats the worst thing that can happen if you fail? You get to take the test again in February? Sure maybe you lose your position, but no one is going to harm you, and no one is going to demean you. THe test doesn't determine your self worth, who you are, what you are capable of. rather it tests you on 6-24 subjects of soon to be out-dated law. of that it gets to pick and choose random sub topics and see how you squirm. Great lawyers have failed this thing and then gone on to great things. conversely horrible lawyers have passed this, only to fail in the real world. now continue reading and remember So truth be told, the bar exam is a pompous, arrogant, shiteating prick that no one likes, and only tolerates it because they have to. don't let it get to you. When you are done with the exam, and have left the building tell the exam to eff off and kick rocks. You may not have passed their little test, but that CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE A FAILURE

I got a 117 on the midterm. I really felt like so many of those questions played on exceptions to exceptions and were insanely and unnecessarily hard--far harder than the mbe qbank questions.

My real worry is that I feel like I know nothing for the essay portion. I am definitely pretty nervous about this exam. I am pretty positive that I would not pass if I were to take it tomorrow.

[ahduke99]

I got a 142 and I am freaking out because I guessed on so many of them that I felt like I could've gone either way. I obviously have no problem narrowing it down to two questions, but once I get down to those, often times I feel as if I just pick one or pick the one that "sounds" more complete.

Like others, I basically got like 10 in a row wrong and then would get 25-30 in a row right, not sure if they designed it to be that way

I guess I'll take the additional practice one this weekend or early next week and finish filling out those OneSheets by condensing all the attack outlines into 2-3 pages. I've yet to do more than 4 essays all summer, so I don't know where to start with that. Definitely in panic mode.