KAPLAN BAR REVIEW hangout Forum

[bazinga!]

Has anyone done the additional practice test?? I just finished, thinking it was MUCH harder than the final, but I got 8 points higher on the additional.

I just did it. I actually thought it was much easier while I was taking it! Or at least the first 100 questions seemed that way. The last 50 or so were HARD. But even with the extra difficulty, I could usually eliminate two answer choices immediately. The questions were hard but a lot of the answer choices seemed particularly bad. If that makes sense.

Anyway, I just put in my answers online and got the exact same score on that as I did on the final MBE (130). But I guess I get to add 25 points to this test for scaling and to adjust for the difficulty? So, based on this score and my final MBE score, I should be somewhere between 145 and 155. Pretty big difference between those two scores. According to Separac's data, it's either median or all the way in the top 1/4.

Guess I'll have to think about what to do next (focus on MBEs? Essays?).

My rep told me to add 12-15 points, I'm not sure if that is based on my jurisdiction though. I'd rather have the 25 points!! That would give me a 161!! I still sort of think this was a fluke!

Every time I got it down to two choices I'd think to myself, "which one is ice cream and which is mint chocolate chip?" lol.

Going forward I think I need to do more practice essays, I'm thinking two per day plus 50 MBE per day. At this point I don't think I'll learn anything new and I am worried about burn out.

lol at ice cream vs. mint chocolate chip. If I pass this bar exam I should mail Fromm a giant fruit basket in appreciation, because it sure won't be from my awesome study and memorization skillz.

re: burnout. I'm feeling it hard. My SO called in today so I could have a full day of studies away from the baby and I hit it hard early this morning. By about 4:00 I was going real slow, and now my brain feels like mush. I am kicking myself for not practicing MEE earlier with any consistency because I can't really afford to take a day off as it stands now. I am barely functional on these essays! At this point I feel like I will not be completely screwed if I get secured transactions, FRCP, and maybe family law. My MBE subjects are a mess but I can't justify spending much time on them even though I can't really recite many rules, especially for contracts and evidence. And all other MEE subjects are just non-existent. So tomorrow I am tackling UCC-3, estates & wills, and trusts. Then Thursday doing the additional MBE so I don't lose all the good Fromm info. Then back to MEE for corps, partnership&agency, and conflicts of law over the weekend. Sunday some mixed MBE and MEE, then monday I am taking it really easy for obvious reasons.

Good Lord y'all, only a few days.

[JJDancer]

Thank you for the responses!

Feeling the burnout a little too. I keep really wanting to watch a movie but lose focus during the day and can never finish everything I wanted to review during the day until 10/11/12 at night when it's too late to watch one!

I think I am going to watch one friday evening

Looking over my real property outlines and realizing I only know about 40% of the material - sighhh I don't even remember writing this stuff down!!

[soccerfreak]

Has anyone done the additional practice test?? I just finished, thinking it was MUCH harder than the final, but I got 8 points higher on the additional.

I just did it. I actually thought it was much easier while I was taking it! Or at least the first 100 questions seemed that way. The last 50 or so were HARD. But even with the extra difficulty, I could usually eliminate two answer choices immediately. The questions were hard but a lot of the answer choices seemed particularly bad. If that makes sense.

Anyway, I just put in my answers online and got the exact same score on that as I did on the final MBE (130). But I guess I get to add 25 points to this test for scaling and to adjust for the difficulty? So, based on this score and my final MBE score, I should be somewhere between 145 and 155. Pretty big difference between those two scores. According to Separac's data, it's either median or all the way in the top 1/4.

Guess I'll have to think about what to do next (focus on MBEs? Essays?).

My rep told me to add 12-15 points, I'm not sure if that is based on my jurisdiction though. I'd rather have the 25 points!! That would give me a 161!! I still sort of think this was a fluke!

Every time I got it down to two choices I'd think to myself, "which one is ice cream and which is mint chocolate chip?" lol.

Going forward I think I need to do more practice essays, I'm thinking two per day plus 50 MBE per day. At this point I don't think I'll learn anything new and I am worried about burn out.

lol at ice cream vs. mint chocolate chip. If I pass this bar exam I should mail Fromm a giant fruit basket in appreciation, because it sure won't be from my awesome study and memorization skillz.

re: burnout. I'm feeling it hard. My SO called in today so I could have a full day of studies away from the baby and I hit it hard early this morning. By about 4:00 I was going real slow, and now my brain feels like mush. I am kicking myself for not practicing MEE earlier with any consistency because I can't really afford to take a day off as it stands now. I am barely functional on these essays! At this point I feel like I will not be completely screwed if I get secured transactions, FRCP, and maybe family law. My MBE subjects are a mess but I can't justify spending much time on them even though I can't really recite many rules, especially for contracts and evidence. And all other MEE subjects are just non-existent. So tomorrow I am tackling UCC-3, estates & wills, and trusts. Then Thursday doing the additional MBE so I don't lose all the good Fromm info. Then back to MEE for corps, partnership&agency, and conflicts of law over the weekend. Sunday some mixed MBE and MEE, then monday I am taking it really easy for obvious reasons.

Good Lord y'all, only a few days.

What is this ice cream tip?

Also, MBE subjects are MUCH more important than MEE subjects! If you have to choose, definitely devote more time to them!

MBE subjects are worth about 65% of the exam. MEE subjects are worth about 15%. Edit: I admit this does depend on your state.

[bazinga!]

My rep told me to add 12-15 points, I'm not sure if that is based on my jurisdiction though. I'd rather have the 25 points!! That would give me a 161!! I still sort of think this was a fluke!

Every time I got it down to two choices I'd think to myself, "which one is ice cream and which is mint chocolate chip?" lol.

Going forward I think I need to do more practice essays, I'm thinking two per day plus 50 MBE per day. At this point I don't think I'll learn anything new and I am worried about burn out.

lol at ice cream vs. mint chocolate chip. If I pass this bar exam I should mail Fromm a giant fruit basket in appreciation, because it sure won't be from my awesome study and memorization skillz.

re: burnout. I'm feeling it hard. My SO called in today so I could have a full day of studies away from the baby and I hit it hard early this morning. By about 4:00 I was going real slow, and now my brain feels like mush. I am kicking myself for not practicing MEE earlier with any consistency because I can't really afford to take a day off as it stands now. I am barely functional on these essays! At this point I feel like I will not be completely screwed if I get secured transactions, FRCP, and maybe family law. My MBE subjects are a mess but I can't justify spending much time on them even though I can't really recite many rules, especially for contracts and evidence. And all other MEE subjects are just non-existent. So tomorrow I am tackling UCC-3, estates & wills, and trusts. Then Thursday doing the additional MBE so I don't lose all the good Fromm info. Then back to MEE for corps, partnership&agency, and conflicts of law over the weekend. Sunday some mixed MBE and MEE, then monday I am taking it really easy for obvious reasons.

Good Lord y'all, only a few days.

What is this ice cream tip?

Also, MBE subjects are MUCH more important than MEE subjects! If you have to choose, definitely devote more time to them!

MBE subjects are worth about 65% of the exam. MEE subjects are worth about 15%. Edit: I admit this does depend on your state.

By MBE subjects I meant to imply knowing the rules for one of the 6 subjects if it comes up in an essay. I didn't write that very clearly. My MBE performance overall I'm ok with, but I'm in a handwritten jxn so for MPT it's all I can do to finish up. And for MEE it's hard enough to know the rules, but when hand writing you have to be so careful because you can't just go back up to a section as you think of stuff and add it in. So I feel like it's worth devoting the next few days to trying to master as much law as I can for MEE.

The ice cream tip was to drive home the point that a general rule of law is good, but a specific rule applicable to the facts is better. So A might be a general rule equivalent to the statement "I like ice cream", but C might be a statement specifically applicable to the facts equivalent to the statement "I like mint chocolate chip." I can't remember the question number he said this on but it's a pretty helpful way to remember not to fall into the this-is-correct-rule trap and instead look for the better answer.

[soccerfreak]

By MBE subjects I meant to imply knowing the rules for one of the 6 subjects if it comes up in an essay. I didn't write that very clearly. My MBE performance overall I'm ok with, but I'm in a handwritten jxn so for MPT it's all I can do to finish up. And for MEE it's hard enough to know the rules, but when hand writing you have to be so careful because you can't just go back up to a section as you think of stuff and add it in. So I feel like it's worth devoting the next few days to trying to master as much law as I can for MEE.

The ice cream tip was to drive home the point that a general rule of law is good, but a specific rule applicable to the facts is better. So A might be a general rule equivalent to the statement "I like ice cream", but C might be a statement specifically applicable to the facts equivalent to the statement "I like mint chocolate chip." I can't remember the question number he said this on but it's a pretty helpful way to remember not to fall into the this-is-correct-rule trap and instead look for the better answer.

I gotcha. If you're confident with MBE, remember that just being average in the MBE gives you a TON of leeway to be pretty awful on the essay portions. I've found that very comforting recently (my Multiple Choice performance is much much better than my essay performance).

[barprepbiddy]

Anyone have any advice for learning commercial paper and secured transactions? I am seriously regretting not taking these classes. I listened to the lectures, read the outlines, did the flashcards, and it's like they're in a different language. I know I can memorize the rules but I still won't really know how to apply them. It's really starting to stress me out.

Here's my best attempt to explain Commercial Paper:

I think the hardest thing to get a handle on is what the disputes are even about and who they're between. Basically, you want to proceed in this way:

1. Who is suing whom, exactly? (Is the bank that had to pay the check the one suing? Is someone who unknowingly indorsed an invalid check pissed off? Is there a thief getting sued, or are other people getting sued for indorsing a thief or taking a check from a thief?)

2. Are they suing over a negotiable instrument? Apply elements of a negotiable instrument. If it's not a valid negotiable instrument, then your Commercial Paper problem has officially ended and the plaintiff will need some other type of action, such as a contract breach.

3. Is the plaintiff (the person suing because they got screwed) a holder of the instrument? (Does the plaintiff have a right to sue over the instrument?) Apply elements for a holder. (In plain English, it's not like I can pick up a check off the sidewalk that was written to someone named Timothy, and sue on his behalf. I have to be a valid holder of the check. This usually means I paid value for the check, or someone wrote it out to me, or someone who was a previous holder indorsed me on the check.)

4. Did the person sued do anything -- i.e. sign, create or guaranty (warranty) anything -- to make them accountable to the plaintiff? In other words, did the defendant sign, create, present or indorse a valid negotiable instrument and give it or cause it to be given to someone else?

5. If yes, does the defendant have any defenses or waivers against being held liable they can make? (Make sure they didn't waive liability in the indorsement of the check. Meanwhile, fraud in the factum and fraud in the inducement are going to be the most common defenses, especially if a thief is involved. But remember, there are two types of defenses, and the distinction between them matters.)

6. Is the person suing them a holder in due course? (This matters because it limits the defenses; fraud in the inducement is the big one that doesn't apply to protect you when the plaintiff is a holder in due course.) Apply the elements to HDC status, the most important being: did a valid holder give value for the check?

7. Okay, so the defendant's getting sued and has no defenses that apply, either because the plaintiff is a HDC that limits his available defenses, or because the plaintiff is just a regular holder but no defenses of any kind are applicable. But can the defendant kick liability down to someone else? (Ex: A presentment warranty is typically violated by the person who presents the non-payable check to the bank, so the presenter is the first to get sued, but they may in turn have an action against the person who transferred to them the check, and that transferor may in turn have another action against a previous transferor or perhaps the drawer of the check.)


Review one of your previous or current Commercial Paper essay problems, and try just issue spotting for an issue involving one of those seven steps. Hope this helps.

This is extremely helpful. Thanks so much!

[JenDarby]

Alright, I'm doing the practice MBE. Part of me feels like its not the best use of my time, but on the other hand I don't really want to read or review outlines right now.

[objctnyrhnr]

are you guys still getting essays back?

[bdubs]

are you guys still getting essays back?

No, I haven't got one back in 2 days. They didn't even finish grading the essays from my practice test (only got 5/9 back).

[bazinga!]

are you guys still getting essays back?

I got an email sunday saying that friday will be the last day to submit essays which kicked me into gear. I've submitted 12 essays since then and nada. I can only assume that everyone else is doing the same and there is a serious backlog, but it would be extremely helpful to have feedback in the next couple of days while I still have time to work on stuff.

On that note, did anyone watch the MEE final video? I got approximately 2 minutes into it where she recited a crap-ton of specific rules that I didn't even come close to having and felt in the interest of my mental health I should stop. I would love to know if someone soldiered through the entire thing and could give an opinion on it's usefulness.

[LeDique]

Alright, I'm doing the practice MBE. Part of me feels like its not the best use of my time, but on the other hand I don't really want to read or review outlines right now.

Choosing between essays or the MBE is the most powerful motivator for the MBE

[JenDarby]

are you guys still getting essays back?

I've submitted 12 essays since then and nada. .

Holy crap. I submitted 4 total lol. Maybe I will submit a couple more....

[Tanicius]

Alright, I'm doing the practice MBE. Part of me feels like its not the best use of my time, but on the other hand I don't really want to read or review outlines right now.

Choosing between essays or the MBE is the most powerful motivator for the MBE

At this point I just do MBEs as stress relief -- it lets me tell myself that I'm being productive and I know some law. Sucks when you don't do as well on the sets as you hoped to, though, because then you feel discouraged about everything...

[LeDique]

are you guys still getting essays back?

I've submitted 12 essays since then and nada. .

Holy crap. I submitted 4 total lol. Maybe I will submit a couple more....

I submitted the required ones for checking off all the boxes, except the MPT. I'll do that…eventually…

[JenDarby]

are you guys still getting essays back?

I've submitted 12 essays since then and nada. .

Holy crap. I submitted 4 total lol. Maybe I will submit a couple more....

I submitted the required ones for checking off all the boxes, except the MPT. I'll do that…eventually…

LOL me too.

FWIW, I emailed a Kaplan rep and he said that they based your ability to retake on "the percentage of assignments you have completed". He wasn't very specific, but said "you should be all set. But you're not going to have to worry about retaking if you've done all of that work. : )"

I THINK there's a lawsuit somewhere in there, if I am understanding these MBE questions correctly.

[shock259]

I have submitted exactly 4 essays too. It's such a pain to write them all out. No thanks.

[northwood]

I've submitted 12 essays since then and nada. .

Holy crap. I submitted 4 total lol. Maybe I will submit a couple more....

I submitted the required ones for checking off all the boxes, except the MPT. I'll do that…eventually…

LOL me too.

FWIW, I emailed a Kaplan rep and he said that they based your ability to retake on "the percentage of assignments you have completed". He wasn't very specific, but said "you should be all set. But you're not going to have to worry about retaking if you've done all of that work. : )"

I THINK there's a lawsuit somewhere in there, if I am understanding these MBE questions correctly.

possible express warranty??

[annalisa]

Alright, I'm doing the practice MBE. Part of me feels like its not the best use of my time, but on the other hand I don't really want to read or review outlines right now.

Choosing between essays or the MBE is the most powerful motivator for the MBE

At this point I just do MBEs as stress relief -- it lets me tell myself that I'm being productive and I know some law. Sucks when you don't do as well on the sets as you hoped to, though, because then you feel discouraged about everything...

lol I know exactly what you mean! Somehow I've convinced myself that no new law will stick in my head which has been really bad for the essays but pretty good for the MBE.

[JJDancer]

are you guys still getting essays back?

Yes, just got the last one for the final practice test today.

[silky bruh]

Alright, I'm doing the practice MBE. Part of me feels like its not the best use of my time, but on the other hand I don't really want to read or review outlines right now.

Choosing between essays or the MBE is the most powerful motivator for the MBE

At this point I just do MBEs as stress relief -- it lets me tell myself that I'm being productive and I know some law. Sucks when you don't do as well on the sets as you hoped to, though, because then you feel discouraged about everything...

Few things as awful as doing a 10 question set and getting slapped with a 40% after you've been doing well.

[cocoapuffs1]

Done with the additional practice exam, didn't think it was too bad although the second half was definitely much harder than the first. I'm still going with the +25 for scaled...I e-mailed Fromm directly and just going to choose to believe it's true.

[Pokemon]

Panic on my front. After getting on my first essay a 4/10, I got on my second a 10/10. Today, I got my third one and I got a 3/10!! Holy shit that last one is not a confidence booster.

Worse of all, I have planned today to take additional MBE, which I plan on starting in like half an hour. I hope Thursday-Monday will be enough time to memorize NY law.

Have you guys yet taken the additional MBE? Do you plan on taking it?

[JenDarby]

Panic on my front. After getting on my first essay a 4/10, I got on my second a 10/10. Today, I got my third one and I got a 3/10!! Holy shit that last one is not a confidence booster.

Worse of all, I have planned today to take additional MBE, which I plan on starting in like half an hour. I hope Thursday-Monday will be enough time to memorize NY law.

Have you guys yet taken the additional MBE? Do you plan on taking it?

I'm taking it right now. I figure that I have been trying to do around 70-100 MBE a day anyway, so may as well just do this test.

[shock259]

Panic on my front. After getting on my first essay a 4/10, I got on my second a 10/10. Today, I got my third one and I got a 3/10!! Holy shit that last one is not a confidence booster.

Worse of all, I have planned today to take additional MBE, which I plan on starting in like half an hour. I hope Thursday-Monday will be enough time to memorize NY law.

Have you guys yet taken the additional MBE? Do you plan on taking it?

For the 3 and 4/10's, did you look at the outline? Did you totally miss the issues? What happened? Was it an organizational issue? There's still a lot of time to learn the NY rules.

[Pokemon]

Panic on my front. After getting on my first essay a 4/10, I got on my second a 10/10. Today, I got my third one and I got a 3/10!! Holy shit that last one is not a confidence booster.

Worse of all, I have planned today to take additional MBE, which I plan on starting in like half an hour. I hope Thursday-Monday will be enough time to memorize NY law.

Have you guys yet taken the additional MBE? Do you plan on taking it?

For the 3 and 4/10's, did you look at the outline? Did you totally miss the issues? What happened? Was it an organizational issue? There's still a lot of time to learn the NY rules.

Totally missed the law for the 3/10. The 4/10 was a while ago, before I really studied anything.