Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

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Eldon Tyrell
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Eldon Tyrell » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:18 pm

Nebby wrote:
bern victim wrote:i think if you can get a 150+ MBE you have prob absorbed enough legal knowledge to shit out passable responses on most of the essays

That's what I'm hoping :?


(Stressing over every single essay subject in an 80% bar passage state)

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Desert Fox
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:18 pm

bern victim wrote:i think if you can get a 150+ MBE you have prob absorbed enough legal knowledge to shit out passable responses on most of the essays


on my actual day, like 7/10 of the essays were MBE topics. When you consider there is usually big overlap you probably don't even need 150. I bet hardly anyone with 140 fails and those who do probably missed entire essays or fucking up in some huge way.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:19 pm

Nebby you doing IL? I'd literally only do the MBE study.

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Nebby
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Nebby » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:21 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Nebby you doing IL? I'd literally only do the MBE study.

Yes. I'm still going to do practice Essays anyway. I'm getting better at MBE and feel comfortable on it

bern victim
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby bern victim » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:22 pm

i didn't do any practice essays. didn't want to waste my best material on barbri.

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Eldon Tyrell
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Eldon Tyrell » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:23 pm

Nebby wrote:I am finally starting to feel comfortable on some essay subjects. I did my fourth Agency essay today and I was almost able to answer the whole thing without looking to my outline for clarification. Similar progress on Corporations today. If y'all have been skipping the essays, I recommend to start doing them.

Also, I messaged Themis about whether MBE tests more on general concepts or on the nuances. They said the MBE tests more on the nuance, and the essays test more on general knowledge. Which means I won't be surprised if we have a lot of MBE questions that are on exceptions to general rules--or exceptions to the exceptions! FML :twisted:


ljl

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby JohannDeMann » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:36 pm

WheatThins wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:sorry. to clarify. the important ratio is always MBE%/Essay Percentage (not including MPT). if that is in the 1 to 1 range, a 65% MBE raw score is gold.


So in NY, where it's 50% UBE, 30% essays, 20% MPT, it's even lower than 65% raw score mbe for an autopass?


fuck around with these calculators
http://www.seperac.com/zcalc-mbe-febjuly.php
http://www.seperac.com/zcalc-bar-f16.php

id be pretty comfortable with a 130 raw score that im going to pass anywhere. but it does rely on not completely shitting the bed on the essays.

PA highest scaled score to fail the July 2015 bar was 148 (so 130 to 136 right raw). http://www.pabarexam.org/pdf/statistics/july/j2015.pdf

if you want to completely shit the bed on the essays as in write one sentence dont even try to bs, you'd probably need a little over 70% MBE in the 140-145 raw score. but a 140/145 is easily attainable if you are doing thousands of MBE practice questions and reviewing the 6 MBE section outlines everyday.

the point is knowing the 6 MBE subjects cold for the multiple choice and getting a 75%tile score also means youre going to know several of the MEE essays and knock them out of the park. those 6 subjects and the MPT where the rules and materials are provided account for the vast majority of the points on a bar exam, and you should study them accordingly. barbri is fine and all and their results speak for themselves, but if you dont have time (i.e. 20 days left to cram) you need to learn the 6 MBE subjects cold and say fuck the rest.

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Nebby
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Nebby » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:37 pm

Eldon Tyrell wrote:
Nebby wrote:I am finally starting to feel comfortable on some essay subjects. I did my fourth Agency essay today and I was almost able to answer the whole thing without looking to my outline for clarification. Similar progress on Corporations today. If y'all have been skipping the essays, I recommend to start doing them.

Also, I messaged Themis about whether MBE tests more on general concepts or on the nuances. They said the MBE tests more on the nuance, and the essays test more on general knowledge. Which means I won't be surprised if we have a lot of MBE questions that are on exceptions to general rules--or exceptions to the exceptions! FML :twisted:


ljl

What is your problem dude? Why are you following me around?

bern victim
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby bern victim » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:41 pm

i'm pretty sure i got carried by MBE. i did basically no essay-specific studying. had 1 essay where i had no fucking clue what the rule was, 1 where i had some idea but ended up getting it totally wrong, and other 4 were ok at best.

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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:07 pm

So my state is 50% MBE and 50% essay scaled 270 to pass. Auto pass would be what raw and what scaled? 140/160ish?

I'm at 138 raw and trying to figure out if I should quit this state specific shit and go HAM on practice MBE questions.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:09 pm

Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:So my state is 50% MBE and 50% essay scaled 270 to pass. Auto pass would be what raw and what scaled? 140/160ish?

I'm at 138 raw and trying to figure out if I should quit this state specific shit and go HAM on practice MBE questions.


Like 159 is AUTO PASS

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Single-Malt-Liquor
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Single-Malt-Liquor » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:So my state is 50% MBE and 50% essay scaled 270 to pass. Auto pass would be what raw and what scaled? 140/160ish?

I'm at 138 raw and trying to figure out if I should quit this state specific shit and go HAM on practice MBE questions.


Like 159 is AUTO PASS


Is that raw or scaled? I have no idea how scaling works.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:15 pm

Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Single-Malt-Liquor wrote:So my state is 50% MBE and 50% essay scaled 270 to pass. Auto pass would be what raw and what scaled? 140/160ish?

I'm at 138 raw and trying to figure out if I should quit this state specific shit and go HAM on practice MBE questions.


Like 159 is AUTO PASS


Is that raw or scaled? I have no idea how scaling works.


scaled

L_William_W
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby L_William_W » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:56 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:Man Fuck Maryland - MBE's are 1/3 of the grade and essays (including MPT) are 2/3.

Maryland why do you think your laws are so great or important


MPT is the easiest section in every state. it's actually a misconception that a higher MPT% of the test makes it harder for the MBE=Auto Pass. It's jsut the reverse.


The MPT is the bane of my existence. What made it difficult for me is that it's completely random. I don't like uncertainty. At least with the essays, I know what's coming.

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anon sequitur
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby anon sequitur » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:31 pm

in a 40% MBE, 60% state specific essay state, I spent 90%+ time on MBE. Just make up a reasonable rule if you don't know it, IRAC like you've done on a thousand essays before, don't sweat it. I had a question on agency law, and basically just assumed the rule was what I thought seemed most fair considering the circumstances. Same thing for local government. Found out later I missed major issues and got others wrong. Doesn't matter.

sweeteavodka
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby sweeteavodka » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:19 pm

Did the BarBri Simulated MBE yesterday. Got a 145/200, 89th percentile. Safe to say that if I can replicate that on test day, I'm in autopass territory? If so, definitely influences my prep strategy for the next three weeks.

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JenDarby
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby JenDarby » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:28 pm

bern victim wrote:i'm pretty sure i got carried by MBE. i did basically no essay-specific studying. had 1 essay where i had no fucking clue what the rule was, 1 where i had some idea but ended up getting it totally wrong, and other 4 were ok at best.

I think that's fine. One of my essays was on unsettled law (which I knew since I happened to encounter it at work), so there was no right or wrong. They basically speed read these essays. As long as you are literate, have a clear/solid structure and say law words you should be good. "The rule is [semi (or not at all) relevent law words]." All set!

I also didn't do practice essays. I just read some models and the Kaplan tips a week or so before the bar.

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Calvin Murphy
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Calvin Murphy » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:41 pm

sweeteavodka wrote:Did the BarBri Simulated MBE yesterday. Got a 145/200, 89th percentile. Safe to say that if I can replicate that on test day, I'm in autopass territory? If so, definitely influences my prep strategy for the next three weeks.


I don't think it's so much "replicate that" as it is that you've learned a good deal more law than most people have by now. Even a good 10% worse on the real thing due to nerves or whatever would put you in fairly comfortable territory.***

Everyone else will spend the next three weeks trying to get to where you are now (or beyond)...so I'm not saying that you should take time off or anything like that, but I would feel extremely comfortable in your shoes.

***This is all conjecture on my part based mostly on things I've read across TLS, since I'm a bar studier, too.

sweeteavodka
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby sweeteavodka » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:11 pm

Calvin Murphy wrote:
sweeteavodka wrote:Did the BarBri Simulated MBE yesterday. Got a 145/200, 89th percentile. Safe to say that if I can replicate that on test day, I'm in autopass territory? If so, definitely influences my prep strategy for the next three weeks.


I don't think it's so much "replicate that" as it is that you've learned a good deal more law than most people have by now. Even a good 10% worse on the real thing due to nerves or whatever would put you in fairly comfortable territory.***

Everyone else will spend the next three weeks trying to get to where you are now (or beyond)...so I'm not saying that you should take time off or anything like that, but I would feel extremely comfortable in your shoes.

***This is all conjecture on my part based mostly on things I've read across TLS, since I'm a bar studier, too.


Yeah, by influencing prep strategy I meant keep practicing and focusing on MBE subjects and not worry too much about the essay only ones, not slack off.

run26.2
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby run26.2 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:00 pm

anon sequitur wrote:in a 40% MBE, 60% state specific essay state, I spent 90%+ time on MBE. Just make up a reasonable rule if you don't know it, IRAC like you've done on a thousand essays before, don't sweat it. I had a question on agency law, and basically just assumed the rule was what I thought seemed most fair considering the circumstances. Same thing for local government. Found out later I missed major issues and got others wrong. Doesn't matter.

Solid. Any idea how much you passed by?

As to the MPTs being hard because of uncertainty, in some ways there is a good deal of certainty. They're going to give you direction as to what the work product is going to be--do that. They're most likely going to give you a bunch of factors--argue those. Go find a couple of facts that relate to each factor and type those in. Really, it's about following instructions to parrot back material that is given to you. Thinking about it from this perspective made the PTs far less daunting to me.

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anon sequitur
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby anon sequitur » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:01 pm

run26.2 wrote:Solid. Any idea how much you passed by?


Unfortunately no score given if you pass in my state. However, after spending so much time on the mbe, I was doing great on practice tests and felt pretty good about the real thing. It helps a lot to just walk away from the nearly endless and mostly pointless task of learning essay rules. Use that time to dominate the mbe, get way above median.

WinSome
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby WinSome » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:26 pm

I'm in a 60% state specific essays/40% MBE state. I just got a 162/200 on my Themis practice MBE. Am I in auto-pass territory if I can pull that off come test day?

HonestAdvice
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby HonestAdvice » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:36 pm

The reality is that the bar essays are not necessarily fair. If you're a good writer you'll get more points despite having weaker analysis than a bad writer. I'm probably average/below average by HYS standards and passed easily despite a poor MBE having never done a practice essay. I think the idea bar essays aren't exam essays is bullshit.

L_William_W
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby L_William_W » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:40 am

HonestAdvice wrote:The reality is that the bar essays are not necessarily fair. If you're a good writer you'll get more points despite having weaker analysis than a bad writer


This depends on the state. In NY, there's a specific format that they're looking for. If your answer doesn't match that template then you'll lose a lot of points, even if you answer is correct. In NJ, however, they're liberal graders. All you have to do is write a halfway-coherent IRAC. Simply spot the issue, data dump a bunch of rules, and do an analysis. Even if you get part of the rule incorrect, you'll still get most of the credit. For example, there was a criminal law essay on the July 2015 NJ bar exam (I can't mention the specific question). I confused search incident to lawful arrest with the automobile exception. And the fact pattern also involved a senile old lady who was an accomplice to a crime. I forgot the rule for insanity so I made some shit up. And on a torts essay, I correctly spotted a negligence per se issue, but I forgot to do the analysis. Still, I passed the exam.

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Br3v
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Br3v » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:10 am

L_William_W wrote:
HonestAdvice wrote:The reality is that the bar essays are not necessarily fair. If you're a good writer you'll get more points despite having weaker analysis than a bad writer


This depends on the state. In NY, there's a specific format that they're looking for. If your answer doesn't match that template then you'll lose a lot of points, even if you answer is correct. In NJ, however, they're liberal graders. All you have to do is write a halfway-coherent IRAC. Simply spot the issue, data dump a bunch of rules, and do an analysis. Even if you get part of the rule incorrect, you'll still get most of the credit. For example, there was a criminal law essay on the July 2015 NJ bar exam (I can't mention the specific question). I confused search incident to lawful arrest with the automobile exception. And the fact pattern also involved a senile old lady who was an accomplice to a crime. I forgot the rule for insanity so I made some shit up. And on a torts essay, I correctly spotted a negligence per se issue, but I forgot to do the analysis. Still, I passed the exam.


What's the NY format? Just CIRAC right?




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