Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

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Flanker1067
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Flanker1067 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:56 am

166 MBE. Going to not study at all for a 50/50 weighted state because of this thread. Will report failure.

Add: May also hunt down DF and demand reimbursement for bar fees.

Genuine4ps
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Genuine4ps » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:08 pm

Tanicius wrote:Minnesota requires a combined score of 260. 50% MBE, 20% MPT, 30% MEE. Just how easy does the math make my test, DF?


Exact same as my state. Would like to know this too.

09042014
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:08 pm

Genuine4ps wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Minnesota requires a combined score of 260. 50% MBE, 20% MPT, 30% MEE. Just how easy does the math make my test, DF?


Exact same as my state. Would like to know this too.


150 = autopass

Genuine4ps
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Genuine4ps » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Genuine4ps wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Minnesota requires a combined score of 260. 50% MBE, 20% MPT, 30% MEE. Just how easy does the math make my test, DF?


Exact same as my state. Would like to know this too.


150 = autopass


Thank, Fox.

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spleenworship
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby spleenworship » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:32 pm

And did we determine that, generally speaking, 70% correct answers equals a 150?

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Bikeflip
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:38 pm

spleenworship wrote:And did we determine that, generally speaking, 70% correct answers equals a 150?



70-75%, yeah. Here's the an old cross poast of CA breakdown for the last few bar exams.

CA July 2013
CA Feb 2013
CA July 2012
CA Feb 2012
CA July 2011

Over that range, a score between 133 and 139 out of 190 scaled to a 150.

Note: I checked to see if my July 2013 scaled was on the table. It was. I didn't take the CA bar, so CA may use the national NCBE scale. Dunno for sure, though. It could just be a coincidence.

lawdawg09
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby lawdawg09 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:38 pm

I can attest to this thread. I have been on both sides of it.

I recently took the UBE last Feb. Got 141 on Themis practice exam, ended up getting a 167 scaled on the actual exam. I passed my state by over 75 points.

MBE will carry you.

jd20132013
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby jd20132013 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:29 am

So, what's the auto-pass for a 60/40 state requiring 140 total points to pass.

09042014
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:44 pm

jd20132013 wrote:So, what's the auto-pass for a 60/40 state requiring 140 total points to pass.


pretty high. too high for this strategy.

jd20132013
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby jd20132013 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:55 pm

:cry: :x

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Or at least almost definitely a bar pass. Note, this is only true for states that don't have a minimum score for written parts, and only true for states with a 50% MBE. 40% or lower, MBE is still huge but it's harder to pass by just MBE.

Lets take Illinois for example. You need 264 points to pass and you can get them from MBE or written (which is scaled to match MBE scoring ranges). Here is what the percentiles looked like last july https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts

If you get a 150 on the MBE (all scores I'm talking about ITT are scaled, raw doesn't matter), then you only need a 114 (264 - 150) on the written. A 150 MBE isn't that hard, it's the 60th percentile and it only covers 6 subjects. For clean cut, standardized test taking naturals like TLSers this should be more than doable.

So how bad is a 114 written? Look at the chart I linked. It's LOWER than bottom 1%.

If you pull off a 160, 82%, you can get a 104 on written. I'm not sure they even give written scores that low.


I think this is precisely why barbri's advice is fucking terrible. They encourage you to study equally for all of the subjects, but all the subjects aren't equal. For example, Illinois has something like 23 subjects, but there's only 8 MBE subjects (or thereabouts). Furthermore, something like a 40% of the essay questions are from the MBE subjects. Even in a state like Cali, where MBE is worth less, studying almost solely the MBE subjects is almost a guaranteed pass (assuming you don't suck at writing and can do reasonably well on the cali performance test--this really should be take me points if you graduated from an ABA accredited law school).

Also, the MBE is awesome because you can get those right without even knowing the law; whereas, the essays tends to be difficult to write about when you don't know anything about the topic (e.g. family law if you didn't take a family law class in law school).

Desert Fox wrote:
daniclfrna wrote:This is not true, at least in California.

I scored 150 on the MBE in California and did not pass the bar.

I had a consistent score on every PT/essay as well. I was close, but no luck.


Me wrote:40% or lower, MBE is still huge but it's harder to pass by just MBE.


CA Bar weighs the MBE only 35%. So this definitely doesn't work in CA.

Also CA Bar is just hard in general. You basically need a 144 MBE to stay on track to pass, any lower and you need to better on the essays to make up. So your 150, only added got you 21 points of extra room on your writing (out of 1400 passing average for writing).

Illinois for example, you are on track for passing with a 132, so the 150 gets you are ton of space on the writing because there is a bigger gap and it's 50% (compared to 35% CA).

Basically, CA weighs it less, and just has a higher standard.


Lol, it's really not, though. It's just that a bunch of dumb fucks are taking it. Also, you're forgetting that something like 1/3 to 1/2 the CA essays tend to be MBE subjects, and the CPT is really easy. I almost exclusively studied the MBE topics, with a goal to get close 190 on the MBE (I didn't manage to start studying until 1 week prior to the CA bar exam, so I had to cut topics out), and felt pretty comfortable that I passed after leaving the exam and discussing answers with a friend (who's pretty fucking smart and spent a month studying for) who also sat for that CA bar exam. It's also worth noting that you can get most of the points on the CA essays by making up a rule (if you don't know it) and applying that bullshit rule to the facts, which I did a good amount of haha.

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Tanicius
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Tanicius » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:09 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:Lol, it's really not, though. It's just that a bunch of dumb fucks are taking it. Also, you're forgetting that something like 1/3 to 1/2 the CA essays tend to be MBE subjects, and the CPT is really easy. I almost exclusively studied the MBE topics, with a goal to get close 190 on the MBE (I didn't manage to start studying until 1 week prior to the CA bar exam, so I had to cut topics out), and felt pretty comfortable that I passed after leaving the exam and discussing answers with a friend (who's pretty fucking smart and spent a month studying for) who also sat for that CA bar exam. It's also worth noting that you can get most of the points on the CA essays by making up a rule (if you don't know it) and applying that bullshit rule to the facts, which I did a good amount of haha.


What? A goal of getting just under a 190 on the MBE with one week of prep is simply not reasonable for 99+% of everyone taking the bar. WTH are you talking about. I could do the MBE untimed and open book and I still would never get close to a 190. About 15% of the questions on any given test are absolute horse shit because of subjective reasoning you can only perfect by taking tons of practice Q's.
Last edited by Tanicius on Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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nygrrrl
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:13 pm

This thread is fantastic.
Thank you, Foxy Fox.

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beachbum
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby beachbum » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:22 pm

I have a feeling I'm gonna be coming back to this thread a lot over the next month.

09042014
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:27 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:Basically, CA weighs it less, and just has a higher standard.


Lol, it's really not, though. It's just that a bunch of dumb fucks are taking it. Also, you're forgetting that something like 1/3 to 1/2 the CA essays tend to be MBE subjects, and the CPT is really easy. I almost exclusively studied the MBE topics, with a goal to get close 190 on the MBE (I didn't manage to start studying until 1 week prior to the CA bar exam, so I had to cut topics out), and felt pretty comfortable that I passed after leaving the exam and discussing answers with a friend (who's pretty fucking smart and spent a month studying for) who also sat for that CA bar exam. It's also worth noting that you can get most of the points on the CA essays by making up a rule (if you don't know it) and applying that bullshit rule to the facts, which I did a good amount of haha.[/quote]

Dumb fucks are most of the reason it's got a bad passage rate. However, it's significantly harder than the average bar exam. You need an average (as in 50th percentile) MBE score to stay on track to pass.

I assume this was your second bar exam? Because I'd assume that makes it easier.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:15 pm

Tanicius wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:Lol, it's really not, though. It's just that a bunch of dumb fucks are taking it. Also, you're forgetting that something like 1/3 to 1/2 the CA essays tend to be MBE subjects, and the CPT is really easy. I almost exclusively studied the MBE topics, with a goal to get close 190 on the MBE (I didn't manage to start studying until 1 week prior to the CA bar exam, so I had to cut topics out), and felt pretty comfortable that I passed after leaving the exam and discussing answers with a friend (who's pretty fucking smart and spent a month studying for) who also sat for that CA bar exam. It's also worth noting that you can get most of the points on the CA essays by making up a rule (if you don't know it) and applying that bullshit rule to the facts, which I did a good amount of haha.


What? A goal of getting just under a 190 on the MBE with one week of prep is simply not reasonable for 99+% of everyone taking the bar. WTH are you talking about. I could do the MBE untimed and open book and I still would never get close to a 190. About 15% of the questions on any given test are absolute horse shit because of subjective reasoning you can only perfect by taking tons of practice Q's.


Not really. You gotta keep in mind that the barbri prep questions are a LOT harder than the actual exam questions. Also, there are the 10 (?) test questions on the real exam that don't count towards your score. The MBE is really not that difficult if you read through the MBE subject outlines a few times. I think a 185 is realistic.

Desert Fox wrote:
I assume this was your second bar exam? Because I'd assume that makes it easier.


It was, but my first exam had something like a 89% passage rate (during its previous administration), so I only spent about 3 days studying for that one lol (although, I was surprised that I passed when results were released). I probably would have spent a lot more time on CA if it was my first exam (the Cali bar exam passage rates are frighteningly low, so I'm sure that would have scared me into studying more). To be honest, the exam seemed the exact same as my first one except that CA gave everyone like twice the time to answer each essay question relative to my first exam. So in that way, it actually felt easier. But it's true that you can't completely bomb all the essays and totally rely on your MBE score in the way you can in IL. But the CPT should be an easy way to acquire most of those essay points for most people who went to an ABA accredited law school.

Genuine4ps
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Genuine4ps » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:11 pm

I'm calling bullshit on all the above poster's claims.

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El Pollito
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby El Pollito » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:19 pm

I took NY and CA and CA was a harder test. But the performance tests are basically an IQ test, so I'm not sure if it's actually harder.

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Tanicius
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Tanicius » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:21 pm

Genuine4ps wrote:I'm calling bullshit on all the above poster's claims.


Nah there are some people like that everywhere in every field in the world. I'm one of the 99% who isn't like them.

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spleenworship
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby spleenworship » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:58 pm

El Pollito wrote:I took NY and CA and CA was a harder test. But the performance tests are basically an IQ test, so I'm not sure if it's actually harder.


I've been bar studying all day. Could you dumb these two sentences down more for me? Are you saying CA was harder because of performance tests? Because I heard those were easy...?

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brose
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby brose » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:01 pm

So, what's the TL;DR on Texas? It's 40% here.

dreakol
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby dreakol » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:32 pm

dem feels when your mbe is only weight like 35 and you need a 75 on at least 3 essays to pass

09042014
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:33 pm

dreakol wrote:dem feels when your mbe is only weight like 35 and you need a 75 on at least 3 essays to pass


75 is meaningless. What is your states cut score? http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2013/04 ... culty.html

dreakol
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby dreakol » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
dreakol wrote:dem feels when your mbe is only weight like 35 and you need a 75 on at least 3 essays to pass


75 is meaningless. What is your states cut score? http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2013/04 ... culty.html


140

i thought 75 was the high end? the model answers my state released seem pretty easy to achieve but i figured they weren't 75s.

Anonanonymous
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass

Postby Anonanonymous » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:48 pm

brose wrote:So, what's the TL;DR on Texas? It's 40% here.


Bump. DF, any thoughts?




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