BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

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BCLS
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby BCLS » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:04 pm

blong4133 wrote:Can someone explain to me why the fact that a judgment being penal in nature is a good defense to full faith and credit? I just don't get why the fact that a judgment is penal makes any difference when assessing whether full faith and credit applies.

Wish I knew. I just had a state law essay today on the doctrine of renovi. Mind blown.

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:15 pm

How did people do on the mpq2 full day?

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Joe Quincy
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Joe Quincy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

BCLS wrote:
blong4133 wrote:Can someone explain to me why the fact that a judgment being penal in nature is a good defense to full faith and credit? I just don't get why the fact that a judgment is penal makes any difference when assessing whether full faith and credit applies.

Wish I knew. I just had a state law essay today on the doctrine of renovi. Mind blown.


Its a sovereignty thing and historical. No state recognizes the right of another state to punish by usurping their judicial process.

E.g. http://books.google.com/books?id=fTG66nM2vEkC&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=full+faith+and+credit+why+not+penal&source=bl&ots=1Q9W4lEbFm&sig=qw5tHKBTB-oF5VwSO7VCgIewcZI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=evruUc32GpSq4APOx4DIDg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=full%20faith%20and%20credit%20why%20not%20penal&f=false

c3pO4
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:12 pm

RodneyBoonfield wrote:How did people do on the mpq2 full day?


shat the bed. it's all just super hard questions. similar to the simulated final exam int he end, or the half-day right before it, or like sets 5/6 in mpq1. its also harder than sets 8/9, which are themselves much harder than sets 1-7. if you can get 50% on test day on questions of that difficulty (probably want 60% on sets 8/9), you are on track. barbri claims 60% is the goal for the mpq2 full day but I call bullshit. the mpq2 insert says their "goals" on that page are based on averages in PACE but since MPQ2 full day is not assigned in pace they have no way to know. i think anything above 45-50% is not great but probably fine, 50-55% is ok/good, 55-65% is great , above 65%... fuck you stop studying. i did find reviewing the answers helpful though because drilling the exceptions to the exceptions makes sure you understand the fundamentals well.

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:22 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
RodneyBoonfield wrote:How did people do on the mpq2 full day?


shat the bed. it's all just super hard questions. similar to the simulated final exam int he end, or the half-day right before it, or like sets 5/6 in mpq1. its also harder than sets 8/9, which are themselves much harder than sets 1-7. if you can get 50% on test day on questions of that difficulty (probably want 60% on sets 8/9), you are on track. barbri claims 60% is the goal for the mpq2 full day but I call bullshit. the mpq2 insert says their "goals" on that page are based on averages in PACE but since MPQ2 full day is not assigned in pace they have no way to know. i think anything above 45-50% is not great but probably fine, 50-55% is ok/good, 55-65% is great , above 65%... fuck you stop studying. i did find reviewing the answers helpful though because drilling the exceptions to the exceptions makes sure you understand the fundamentals well.


Agree that it was hard as hell. I also suspected the 60% goal as being horse shit. Those fact patterns were head spinners. MPQ2 is "optional" in my PACE.

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Joe Quincy
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Joe Quincy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:23 pm

RodneyBoonfield wrote:How did people do on the mpq2 full day?


Forget about the full day (I'll never get to it at this point). How are people feeling about the MPQ2 sets? Are the goals realistic? Easy? Hard?

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:23 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
RodneyBoonfield wrote:How did people do on the mpq2 full day?


shat the bed. it's all just super hard questions. similar to the simulated final exam int he end, or the half-day right before it, or like sets 5/6 in mpq1. its also harder than sets 8/9, which are themselves much harder than sets 1-7. if you can get 50% on test day on questions of that difficulty (probably want 60% on sets 8/9), you are on track. barbri claims 60% is the goal for the mpq2 full day but I call bullshit. the mpq2 insert says their "goals" on that page are based on averages in PACE but since MPQ2 full day is not assigned in pace they have no way to know. i think anything above 45-50% is not great but probably fine, 50-55% is ok/good, 55-65% is great , above 65%... fuck you stop studying. i did find reviewing the answers helpful though because drilling the exceptions to the exceptions makes sure you understand the fundamentals well.


I got a 55 of the first 100 in the full day exam. Got 71 on the SFE. The full day exam, to me at least, was a complete crapshoot. I'm debating on whether to do the second one hundred before the exam. I want to do another 100 under timed conditions, but i'm afraid it will destroy whatever confidence I may have going into the exam. (and also, I impulsively check my answers after answering 25 questions...I need to stop doing that and want to take a test where I just go straight through - I get it done in time even with checking the answers, but I can't be doing that crap)

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stratocophic
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby stratocophic » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:25 pm

*does rounds of 5 property questions from random difficulty sets on a single topic to study*
*gets 5 in a row wrong*
*gets 5 in a row right*

Do I know property or not?

A. Yes
B. No
C. Yes, but only some property
D. No, however you do know some property

Image



TWIST Barbri says answer is E, my dumb ass bouta fail dat bar

c3pO4
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:28 pm

blong4133 wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
RodneyBoonfield wrote:How did people do on the mpq2 full day?


shat the bed. it's all just super hard questions. similar to the simulated final exam int he end, or the half-day right before it, or like sets 5/6 in mpq1. its also harder than sets 8/9, which are themselves much harder than sets 1-7. if you can get 50% on test day on questions of that difficulty (probably want 60% on sets 8/9), you are on track. barbri claims 60% is the goal for the mpq2 full day but I call bullshit. the mpq2 insert says their "goals" on that page are based on averages in PACE but since MPQ2 full day is not assigned in pace they have no way to know. i think anything above 45-50% is not great but probably fine, 50-55% is ok/good, 55-65% is great , above 65%... fuck you stop studying. i did find reviewing the answers helpful though because drilling the exceptions to the exceptions makes sure you understand the fundamentals well.


I got a 55 of the first 100 in the full day exam. Got 71 on the SFE. The full day exam, to me at least, was a complete crapshoot. I'm debating on whether to do the second one hundred before the exam. I want to do another 100 under timed conditions, but i'm afraid it will destroy whatever confidence I may have going into the exam. (and also, I impulsively check my answers after answering 25 questions...I need to stop doing that and want to take a test where I just go straight through - I get it done in time even with checking the answers, but I can't be doing that crap)


71 on SFE???? wow. how'd you know about the long history of legislative prayer

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:30 pm

Bros,

No reason to let your confidence be shattered. You've heard the anecdotes about peers of equal intelligence smoking trees and playing golf every day until July 10th and then passing the bar. Just keep grinding and it will be all over. If you're doing the majority of the practice questions and problems assigned, you have to be in good shape, otherwise nobody would take Barbri, ever.

Admittedly, though, Barbri is a whole new level of mind fuck.

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:37 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
blong4133 wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
RodneyBoonfield wrote:How did people do on the mpq2 full day?


shat the bed. it's all just super hard questions. similar to the simulated final exam int he end, or the half-day right before it, or like sets 5/6 in mpq1. its also harder than sets 8/9, which are themselves much harder than sets 1-7. if you can get 50% on test day on questions of that difficulty (probably want 60% on sets 8/9), you are on track. barbri claims 60% is the goal for the mpq2 full day but I call bullshit. the mpq2 insert says their "goals" on that page are based on averages in PACE but since MPQ2 full day is not assigned in pace they have no way to know. i think anything above 45-50% is not great but probably fine, 50-55% is ok/good, 55-65% is great , above 65%... fuck you stop studying. i did find reviewing the answers helpful though because drilling the exceptions to the exceptions makes sure you understand the fundamentals well.


I got a 55 of the first 100 in the full day exam. Got 71 on the SFE. The full day exam, to me at least, was a complete crapshoot. I'm debating on whether to do the second one hundred before the exam. I want to do another 100 under timed conditions, but i'm afraid it will destroy whatever confidence I may have going into the exam. (and also, I impulsively check my answers after answering 25 questions...I need to stop doing that and want to take a test where I just go straight through - I get it done in time even with checking the answers, but I can't be doing that crap)


71 on SFE???? wow. how'd you know about the long history of legislative prayer


Because that was the exact issue in my moot court competition 2L year. And I'm dead serious. haha

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sundevil77
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby sundevil77 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:32 pm

Alright, I want to see if someone can help me understand this distinction. I just finished MPQ2 Set 7. You might recall Problem 30, which gives a fact pattern about a mom being called down to the vice principal's office because her son is in trouble. A janitor ends up impersonating the vice principal and bringing the mom into the office. The janitor makes suggestive comments to the mom while impersonating the vice principal, but the mom doesn't leave because of her concern for her son's academic standing. The correct answer is (D), the mom won't prevail because she had no reason to believe she could not leave.

Now I remember another question awhile back where a man had his luggage illegally detained and searched at the airport. The answer there ended up being that it was false imprisonment because the man didn't reasonably believe he could leave. The explanation was something about how a reasonable person would feel constrained to wait for the luggage. How is that different than this situation? The mom didn't feel like she could leave the VP's office because of her son's academic standing. I think the average person might feel like they had to stay there to resolve the problem.

Please explain.

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stratocophic
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby stratocophic » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:41 pm

sundevil77 wrote:Alright, I want to see if someone can help me understand this distinction. I just finished MPQ2 Set 7. You might recall Problem 30, which gives a fact pattern about a mom being called down to the vice principal's office because her son is in trouble. A janitor ends up impersonating the vice principal and bringing the mom into the office. The janitor makes suggestive comments to the mom while impersonating the vice principal, but the mom doesn't leave because of her concern for her son's academic standing. The correct answer is (D), the mom won't prevail because she had no reason to believe she could not leave.

Now I remember another question awhile back where a man had his luggage illegally detained and searched at the airport. The answer there ended up being that it was false imprisonment because the man didn't reasonably believe he could leave. The explanation was something about how a reasonable person would feel constrained to wait for the luggage. How is that different than this situation? The mom didn't feel like she could leave the VP's office because of her son's academic standing. I think the average person might feel like they had to stay there to resolve the problem.

Please explain.

Maybe b/c the luggage dude had a property interest in the luggage which he believed he'd be forfeiting if he left or something, some variation of they were holding his property hostage so he believed he couldn't go? Either that or he didn't believe he could leave b/c it was an official search, I dunno. All I know is I almost threw my laptop across the room when I did that question because I knew I was right but then that GD X popped up.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:42 pm

sundevil77 wrote:Alright, I want to see if someone can help me understand this distinction. I just finished MPQ2 Set 7. You might recall Problem 30, which gives a fact pattern about a mom being called down to the vice principal's office because her son is in trouble. A janitor ends up impersonating the vice principal and bringing the mom into the office. The janitor makes suggestive comments to the mom while impersonating the vice principal, but the mom doesn't leave because of her concern for her son's academic standing. The correct answer is (D), the mom won't prevail because she had no reason to believe she could not leave.

Now I remember another question awhile back where a man had his luggage illegally detained and searched at the airport. The answer there ended up being that it was false imprisonment because the man didn't reasonably believe he could leave. The explanation was something about how a reasonable person would feel constrained to wait for the luggage. How is that different than this situation? The mom didn't feel like she could leave the VP's office because of her son's academic standing. I think the average person might feel like they had to stay there to resolve the problem.

Please explain.


With the airport, the guy had all his possessions and belongings in his suitcase. I don't remember if he was on vacation, or on a business trip or something, but it was imperative that he stay, due to the threat of losing his things. I believe that Q involves some comment that, if he didn't stay, he risked losing his bag for a long time. He needed the bag and its contents, so he was essentially forced to stay.

With the principal's office, what is even slightly compelling her to stay in the office? She could absolutely go into the hall or into the waiting room again to get away from the creepy janitor. Its not like they said "you can't leave the office, or else your son gets suspended".

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:44 pm

Oh, and I'm getting so sick of Multistate Edge (i.e. Barbri) Q's where the explanation makes it clear that no answer is good, and that you are essentially supposed to pick the least crappy one. It says stupid shit like "This answer isn't perfect" or something, and I'm like "no shit, thats why I didn't pick it". Ug, so frustrating.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby anonymcoffee » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:43 pm

@stratocophic I go with answer choice E which says it's all in vain, because property effing sucks and was created solely to torture (no one ever really knows property).


I have a barbri question - in the ipad app under practice exams, I take the 30 minute timed practice exams and shows the number correct/incorrect but no explanations. Where can I see what I picked and the answers and the explanations for these practices? Are they in the app or in any of the books?

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englawyer
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby englawyer » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:54 pm

this was discussed a bit before, but I have seen way too many questions where a fundamental right is involved and the question asks EP clause or SDP clause of the 14th amendment.

What are some cases (if any) where SDP unambiguously is the winner? Barbri says the test is: does it affect all people, or only some people: SDP for the former, EP for the later.

I saw a question where "State X passes a law requiring English literacy before anyone can vote". My thought was: The law affects all people ("anyone"), so therefore its an SDP. Wrong, the answer states that it is EP because it discriminates between the English-literate and the non-English-literate. If even this is EP, I am not sure when SDP will ever be the right answer choice.

examples:

Abortion. Must be EP because it discriminates between men and women?
Gay Sex. Must be EP because it discriminates between straight and gay?
Welfare Durational Requirements (travel). Must be EP because it discriminates between long term and short term residents?

It seems like there is always a colorable argument that EP is the correct answer....

BCLS
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby BCLS » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:55 pm

Joe Quincy wrote:
BCLS wrote:
blong4133 wrote:Can someone explain to me why the fact that a judgment being penal in nature is a good defense to full faith and credit? I just don't get why the fact that a judgment is penal makes any difference when assessing whether full faith and credit applies.

Wish I knew. I just had a state law essay today on the doctrine of renovi. Mind blown.


Its a sovereignty thing and historical. No state recognizes the right of another state to punish by usurping their judicial process.

E.g. http://books.google.com/books?id=fTG66nM2vEkC&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=full+faith+and+credit+why+not+penal&source=bl&ots=1Q9W4lEbFm&sig=qw5tHKBTB-oF5VwSO7VCgIewcZI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=evruUc32GpSq4APOx4DIDg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=full%20faith%20and%20credit%20why%20not%20penal&f=false

Thanks JQ!

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jawsthegreat
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:11 pm

englawyer wrote:this was discussed a bit before, but I have seen way too many questions where a fundamental right is involved and the question asks EP clause or SDP clause of the 14th amendment.

What are some cases (if any) where SDP unambiguously is the winner? Barbri says the test is: does it affect all people, or only some people: SDP for the former, EP for the later.

I saw a question where "State X passes a law requiring English literacy before anyone can vote". My thought was: The law affects all people ("anyone"), so therefore its an SDP. Wrong, the answer states that it is EP because it discriminates between the English-literate and the non-English-literate. If even this is EP, I am not sure when SDP will ever be the right answer choice.

examples:

Abortion. Must be EP because it discriminates between men and women?
Gay Sex. Must be EP because it discriminates between straight and gay?
Welfare Durational Requirements (travel). Must be EP because it discriminates between long term and short term residents?

It seems like there is always a colorable argument that EP is the correct answer....


I follow your point, but those were not the best examples. You named 2 fundamental rights and another protected by the P&I clause of the 14th.

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swc65
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby swc65 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:32 pm

I bought an exam from the mbe website. Was testing at around 60% on the barbri questions and got 80% of the real mbe questions correct for a 165. Barbri sucks at writing questions. Their answers suck worse. This is why they tell you not to do too many questions in pace of reading the outlines. I think barbri makes you dumber the more you do their questions.

c3pO4
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:38 pm

swc65 wrote:I bought an exam from the mbe website. Was testing at around 60% on the barbri questions and got 80% of the real mbe questions correct for a 165. Barbri sucks at writing questions. Their answers suck worse. This is why they tell you not to do too many questions in pace of reading the outlines. I think barbri makes you dumber the more you do their questions.


i don't follow your logic. assuming these questions are representative of the real MBE, it seems barbri has prepared you really well. my question is, would you recommend doing the NCBE online test? is it worth the 6 hours at this point?

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:42 pm

swc65 wrote:I bought an exam from the mbe website. Was testing at around 60% on the barbri questions and got 80% of the real mbe questions correct for a 165. Barbri sucks at writing questions. Their answers suck worse. This is why they tell you not to do too many questions in pace of reading the outlines. I think barbri makes you dumber the more you do their questions.


Was that a real, complete test? Or was this just a sampling of random released Q's? I certainly hope its a real, full test, with both easy, medium, and hard Q's included. If 60% on Barbri Q's can translate to anything close to 80% right on the real thing, then I think lots of us are in better shape than we think.

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stratocophic
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby stratocophic » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:47 pm

swc65 wrote:I bought an exam from the mbe website. Was testing at around 60% on the barbri questions and got 80% of the real mbe questions correct for a 165. Barbri sucks at writing questions. Their answers suck worse. This is why they tell you not to do too many questions in pace of reading the outlines. I think barbri makes you dumber the more you do their questions.

Now that you've been to the promised land, what do the questions look like

It's been asked before and iirc the parties asked couldn't articulate what the difference between barbri and the real deal is

Also are they shorter than the essay question prompts barbri has masquerading as MC

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swc65
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby swc65 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:48 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
swc65 wrote:I bought an exam from the mbe website. Was testing at around 60% on the barbri questions and got 80% of the real mbe questions correct for a 165. Barbri sucks at writing questions. Their answers suck worse. This is why they tell you not to do too many questions in pace of reading the outlines. I think barbri makes you dumber the more you do their questions.


i don't follow your logic. assuming these questions are representative of the real MBE, it seems barbri has prepared you really well. my question is, would you recommend doing the NCBE online test? is it worth the 6 hours at this point?



The questions one the ncbe are just better written and don't suffer from the problems many people in this thread are discussing. I had the same experience with LSAT test prep. To me the barbri questions confuse the material because no Answr choice is good or they seem to be totally wrong.

The ncbe tests are one hundred questions each. An hour and half to two hours should be sufficient to take one. I totally think its worth it. They provide a scaled score and tell you what the average score was on a set of similar questions. To me their questions seem way less tricky, are shorter, and the explanation are great. They refer to old common law rules less often than barbri (I think only once in 100 questions thy asked about a rule that no longer exists). Ncbe also provides explanations for the questions get correct which is a good insight into how they test.


Anyway it's definitely better than doing a bunch of barbri questions

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swc65
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby swc65 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:51 pm

stratocophic wrote:
swc65 wrote:I bought an exam from the mbe website. Was testing at around 60% on the barbri questions and got 80% of the real mbe questions correct for a 165. Barbri sucks at writing questions. Their answers suck worse. This is why they tell you not to do too many questions in pace of reading the outlines. I think barbri makes you dumber the more you do their questions.

Now that you've been to the promised land, what do the questions look like

It's been asked before and iirc the parties asked couldn't articulate what the difference between barbri and the real deal is

Also are they shorter than the essay question prompts barbri has masquerading as MC


They are clearer, have fewer distracting "fake out" issues, and way shorter. Not one was fifteen paragraphs long unlike the typical barbri property questions. I ft that barbri is trying to over prepare us. But I just get pissed because I feel they waste my time.




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