BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

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PitchO20
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby PitchO20 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:12 am

Man, I hope the actual MBE is similar to the MPQ2 mixed sets. Even the mortgage/recording questions on those are simple.

BCLS
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby BCLS » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:15 am

PitchO20 wrote:Man, I hope the actual MBE is similar to the MPQ2 mixed sets. Even the mortgage/recording questions on those are simple.


Dude I know. There's no way it will be. I just hit 47/50 on MPQ4. It's too good to be true.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:25 am

Mroberts3 wrote:
kaiser wrote:A part of me just wants to really drill all 5 of the MBE subjects I can manage, just review the black letter rules on property, and pray on test day that it isn't too bad. On any given property Q, I can waste a solid 2 min just staring, sketching, thinking, etc. and then still get it totally wrong. Whereas, for the other subjects, a bit of extra time often leads me to realize the nuances and tricks.

I almost wants to just skip the property Q's as I go along, saving them all for the end. That way, I can dedicate more time to the Q's I have a much better chance of getting right. I likely won't be pressed for time. On Barbri simulated MBE, had over 20 min left on each half. On real thing, with its shorter fact patterns, I'd expect I can finish even faster. Any opinions on saving my weakest subject for last? Bad approach?


Amen to that. Property fact patterns blow. If you are finishing with plenty of time, I would at least try to answer the question as you go along so you don't mis-bubble. Also, SOME of them will be easy enough to answer right away so you may as well just get those done and only have to come back to the ridiculous ones.


True, I'll probably do that. Might as well quickly scan the property Q's instead of just immediately skipping, since I'll at least get the easy ones. But a solid 2/3 I will likely save for the end. Just a few moments extra on a con law Q or crim law Q can make the difference between falling into a trap, and realizing a trick. But with those page-long property Q's, its often hopeless from the start.

I'm making a last ditch effort today to learn property. Spending a solid 6 hours on it to try and milk out some black letter rules I can apply, do more practice Q's, etc. Fingers crossed that I'm not wasting time. Really need essay practice, so I hate wasting more time learning MBE shit.

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Mroberts3
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Mroberts3 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:26 am

BCLS wrote:
PitchO20 wrote:Man, I hope the actual MBE is similar to the MPQ2 mixed sets. Even the mortgage/recording questions on those are simple.


Dude I know. There's no way it will be. I just hit 47/50 on MPQ4. It's too good to be true.


Honestly, I think it is that good. Barbri has been giving us such hard questions for so long it feels weird. However, it makes sense because 1) Barbri's goal for the MPQ2 sets is the same as what you need for an average pass on the real thing and 2) I have done the real released exams from the NCBE and they are of comparable difficulty to MPQ2 sets (but better/more clearly written).

BCLS
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby BCLS » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:29 am

Mroberts3 wrote:
BCLS wrote:
PitchO20 wrote:Man, I hope the actual MBE is similar to the MPQ2 mixed sets. Even the mortgage/recording questions on those are simple.


Dude I know. There's no way it will be. I just hit 47/50 on MPQ4. It's too good to be true.


Honestly, I think it is that good. Barbri has been giving us such hard questions for so long it feels weird. However, it makes sense because 1) Barbri's goal for the MPQ2 sets is the same as what you need for an average pass on the real thing and 2) I have done the real released exams from the NCBE and they are of comparable difficulty to MPQ2 sets (but better/more clearly written).

Wow I sincerely hope so. That would be awesome.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:30 am

Mroberts3 wrote:
BCLS wrote:
PitchO20 wrote:Man, I hope the actual MBE is similar to the MPQ2 mixed sets. Even the mortgage/recording questions on those are simple.


Dude I know. There's no way it will be. I just hit 47/50 on MPQ4. It's too good to be true.


Honestly, I think it is that good. Barbri has been giving us such hard questions for so long it feels weird. However, it makes sense because 1) Barbri's goal for the MPQ2 sets is the same as what you need for an average pass on the real thing and 2) I have done the real released exams from the NCBE and they are of comparable difficulty to MPQ2 sets (but better/more clearly written).


Well thats certainly a relief to hear. Also, BarBri gives us (at least the NY takers) access to sets of actual released Q's, about 35-40 per subject. They were older, many with the double Q's per 1 fact pattern, but the difficult just didn't seem bad. Sure, some tricks and toughies here and there, but my overall % correct was higher for every subject.

And I never though about the percentages like that. You are right, in that MPQ2 sets typically have a 70% average. And on the real thing, the average is something around 65% right, or a bit lower. So wouldn't that be an indication that BarBri considers them to be just marginally easier than the real thing, at least as far as percentage expectations?

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:35 am

Counterpoint: I know several people from recent years who swear the real MBE was much harder than BarBri made them believe. They said that the whole "BarBri questions are much harder" thing was seriously overstated.

Not sure what it will be like, but I don't think it's safe to bank on them being easier.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby de5igual » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:48 am

PitchO20 wrote:Man, I hope the actual MBE is similar to the MPQ2 mixed sets. Even the mortgage/recording questions on those are simple.


+1

I was shocked at first and had to re-read the question 2x to make sure Barbri wasn't up to its usually trickery in mpq1

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:50 am

Mroberts3 wrote:
BCLS wrote:
PitchO20 wrote:Man, I hope the actual MBE is similar to the MPQ2 mixed sets. Even the mortgage/recording questions on those are simple.


Dude I know. There's no way it will be. I just hit 47/50 on MPQ4. It's too good to be true.


Honestly, I think it is that good. Barbri has been giving us such hard questions for so long it feels weird. However, it makes sense because 1) Barbri's goal for the MPQ2 sets is the same as what you need for an average pass on the real thing and 2) I have done the real released exams from the NCBE and they are of comparable difficulty to MPQ2 sets (but better/more clearly written).


not all mpq2 sets are the same. try the SFE in the mpq2 book, or set 8, or set 9, or the halfday exam in the beginning, or the fullday exam in the beginning. mpq2 is all over the place in terms of difficulty. sets 1-7 are easy to score 70-85% but i don't believe the real mbe will be that easy.

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Mroberts3
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Mroberts3 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:51 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:Counterpoint: I know several people from recent years who swear the real MBE was much harder than BarBri made them believe. They said that the whole "BarBri questions are much harder" thing was seriously overstated.

Not sure what it will be like, but I don't think it's safe to bank on them being easier.


It's certainly a good idea to remain cautious and not underestimate your enemy. However, I would chock this up to test day stress and uncertainty that you cannot quickly resolve by looking at an answer key. Even when I get a 90% on an MPQ2 set, there are like 10-15 questions that I am unsure of or though were hard. If I couldn't look at the answer key for 4 months I would eventually convince myself that I got all 15 wrong or that overall the test was hard. After looking at the key and realizing I got most of those right you re-adjust your perception of its difficulty. "Oh, that wasn't so hard, I got most of them right!" Just my armchair psychology.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:53 pm

So how difficult is the Simulated Final Exam in comparison to test day? Just took it and my brain hurts.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby dabears5 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:08 pm

Anyone taken the BarBri MPQ2 Full-Day? I have been getting between 70-80% on the other MPQ mixed questions, but got a 67% on this. Wondering if people think 67% is adequate to pass in IL with average essay performance, because I think that's about as high as my memorizing can take me on MBE.

Stinson
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Stinson » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:13 pm

Regarding how I think about the difficulty of the MPQ2's:

The way my state does scoring is half MBE, half essays, and you need 270 out of 400 points available. So after scaling you need about 70% of the available points from each section on average. Around 90% of first time takers, and a higher percentage of Barbri takers, pass the exam.

Barbri sets goals of 70% on most of the MPQ2's, and 67% or so on the harder sets at the end. Most people seem to agree this is a tad odd as those sets are substantially harder than the first six. more than one or two question's worth harder. As many people have said, the 70% goal in many cases actually feels low, as usually when the MPQ2's are discussed here it is in the context of scoring 80% or higher. No less, 70% is where you're supposed to be aiming.

So, to me, there are two possible scenarios. One is that my state has ridiculously easy essays that everyone totally decimates, making the MBE score not matter much. If that's true, I can't say much about MBE difficulty. Barbri is so opaque/uninterested in talking about actual essay scores that I couldn't speak to the likelihood of this. We only got one sample answer, and it was to a very easy question - basically a "list the crimes of which this dude is guilty" question. I have read our past essays, and they are not all simple questions, but we know so little about grading it could very well be that the essays are graded super easy.

The other is that the majority of takers, all of whom pass the exam, get at least around 70% of the possible points off of the MBE after scaling, probably more. Scaling, as I understand it, nets you something like 10-15 points when you're up around 120-150, less towards the upper end. So nailing around 2/3s of the questions will get you 70% or more after scaling.

Given all that, my intuition about the MPQ2's is that they are representative of the majority, but not all, of the questions on the test. This squares with Barbri reps' statements that Set 5/6's and the SFE are representative of the hardest 15-20% of questions one is likely to see. I think that the MPQ2's are mostly Set 1-2 in difficulty, with some 3-4 too. So I think what Barbri is getting at in terms of the goals is not a mind game or superficial confidence booster, nor are they saying the if you nail 85% on MPQ2 that you'll get 85% on the real MBE. (That would be in the top 5% or so.)

They are saying, rather, that you'll get around 70-80% of the regular/easy questions right and fewer of the harder ones, which will give most people the number of points they need.

tl;dr - The MBE will not be as easy as the MPQ2 mixed sets, but if you are decimating those sets you will probably get as many points as you need on the MBE.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:15 pm

Mroberts3 wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:Counterpoint: I know several people from recent years who swear the real MBE was much harder than BarBri made them believe. They said that the whole "BarBri questions are much harder" thing was seriously overstated.

Not sure what it will be like, but I don't think it's safe to bank on them being easier.


It's certainly a good idea to remain cautious and not underestimate your enemy. However, I would chock this up to test day stress and uncertainty that you cannot quickly resolve by looking at an answer key. Even when I get a 90% on an MPQ2 set, there are like 10-15 questions that I am unsure of or though were hard. If I couldn't look at the answer key for 4 months I would eventually convince myself that I got all 15 wrong or that overall the test was hard. After looking at the key and realizing I got most of those right you re-adjust your perception of its difficulty. "Oh, that wasn't so hard, I got most of them right!" Just my armchair psychology.


Felt the same. Going through the MPQ2 sets, I would constantly be wondering if I was falling into traps, if that other answer choice may have been right, etc. I would circle a bunch of Q's as "uncertain" ones to review later, only to find that I for 45 right.

I remember taking the simulated MBE, and having stretches where I was unsure for numerous Q's in a row. Going into the 2nd half, I think I circled something like 10 out of the first 15 Q's as being uncertain ones where I had to "guess" to some extent between 2 choices. Figured I was doing awfully, yet I was very happy with my score in the end. It was the stress of real timing, and more importantly, the frustration in having to move on without knowing the answer that really skewed my perception.

rnf1292
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby rnf1292 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:40 pm

How many MBE q's are you guys working on per day? Is 30 not enough?

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Joe Quincy
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Joe Quincy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:57 pm

rnf1292 wrote:How many MBE q's are you guys working on per day? Is 30 not enough?


I've done 10 total since the sim MBE...LOL.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Stinson » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:59 pm

rnf1292 wrote:How many MBE q's are you guys working on per day? Is 30 not enough?


It depends how well you're doing with them. 30 a day is fine if you're getting most of them right, because then you're just playing defense and keeping your memory fresh until next week. If you're not doing well I'd probably do more to learn more of the tricks, common patterns, etc. Also depends how big a percentage the MBE is for your score.

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:10 pm

rnf1292 wrote:How many MBE q's are you guys working on per day? Is 30 not enough?


I run through about 20 every night when I lay in bed on my barbri app for my phone just to keep my mind thinking about the various subjects. I suck at con law and torts, so I usually run through about 10 or 20 questions a night on either one of those subjects trying to pick up some nuances i've been missing.

I'm fine with how I've been doing on the MBE subjects. There's still a lot of stuff I don't know, but at this point, considering how little time we have left, i think my time is better spent working on the essay stuff.
Last edited by blong4133 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Green Crayons
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Green Crayons » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:19 pm

blong4133 wrote:I run through about 20 every night when I lay in bed on my barbri app for my phone just to keep my mind thinking about the various subjects.
There's a BarBri app that allows you to do practice MBE questions? Well shit. That would've been useful.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:21 pm

Green Crayons wrote:
blong4133 wrote:I run through about 20 every night when I lay in bed on my barbri app for my phone just to keep my mind thinking about the various subjects.
There's a BarBri app that allows you to do practice MBE questions? Well shit. That would've been useful.


Yeah dude, you can watch the lectures with it also. Was able to set up in a Starbucks without even bringing my comp. Just brought my handout book with my headphones.

And it tracks all your Studysmart MBE results so you can review any Q you got wrong, or answer new Q's.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:23 pm

Green Crayons wrote:
blong4133 wrote:I run through about 20 every night when I lay in bed on my barbri app for my phone just to keep my mind thinking about the various subjects.
There's a BarBri app that allows you to do practice MBE questions? Well shit. That would've been useful.


Ya, its basically the app version of the MPQ1 and MPQ2 Sets...no difference in questions. It's useful to get in 4-5 questions here and there when you are cooking dinner or chillin in bed.

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traehekat
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby traehekat » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:31 pm

DwightSchruteFarms wrote:
Green Crayons wrote:
blong4133 wrote:I run through about 20 every night when I lay in bed on my barbri app for my phone just to keep my mind thinking about the various subjects.
There's a BarBri app that allows you to do practice MBE questions? Well shit. That would've been useful.


Ya, its basically the app version of the MPQ1 and MPQ2 Sets...no difference in questions. It's useful to get in 4-5 questions here and there when you are cooking dinner or chillin in bed.


Yeah the BarBri app is actually pretty impressive, you could probably get by studying with that thing alone.

FamilyLawEsq
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby FamilyLawEsq » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:09 pm

Although I am a shitboomer, I remember taking the MBE like it was yesterday. In fact, on the morning of the test I got up at 5 AM to watch Prince Charles and Diana get married. I urge you to take, in addition to the Barbri one, a timed test under test center conditions the end of this week. (3 hours, lunch and then 3 hours again). You need to get the timing down.

I remember in the morning session hitting a 6 question section involving the purchase of 2 bengal tigers that were to be mated but when they were shipped they were both female. I could not answer any of the questions, but I did guess. At lunch I asked my now spouse, "what the f*ck was that section about?" He said "implied warranty blah, blah." (He booked contracts, I still hate the UCC.) This will happen to you too but don't panic. You have to miss some questions. I just happened to do 6 in a row, at least that is my guess. You will hit an easy section and then get slammed with the next. I found the afternoon session to be easier than the morning session by a mile.

One of my friends was not going to return the next day to take the essays because she was sure she bombed the MBE. She passed.

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:02 pm

Can someone explain to me why the fact that a judgment being penal in nature is a good defense to full faith and credit? I just don't get why the fact that a judgment is penal makes any difference when assessing whether full faith and credit applies.

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knickfan
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby knickfan » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:03 pm

Anyone absolutely bombing NYMC. I'm getting less than 50% right AND each question feels like a guess between 2 or 3 choices. :shock:




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