BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

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goodolgil
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby goodolgil » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:17 am

cabartaker13 wrote:Have people done MPQ2 Set 9? The average passing score is 33, so a two points lower than Sets 1-6 (35/50) and one point lower than Sets 7 & 8 (34/50).

Set 9 felt much harder than sets 1-6 .... felt like the average passing score should have been lower than only two less than the first sets.....


I've done sets 1-5, and I did significantly worse on set 3 than the others. Had some weird questions, especially the block of q's about unilateral contracts (one correct answer was usual k rules don't apply because this was a bounty from the state, wtf?).

Honestly, I don't think MPQ2's feel that much easier when I'm doing them (except for maybe the first set). But I always end up scoring significantly higher than I do on the rest of BarBri's questions. If MPQ2s are the closest to real MBE questions, I think that may reflect why people feel like the real MBE is very difficult but end up scoring significantly higher than BarBri's sim exams. The difference with the real thing and MPQ2 being you can't check your answers right away.

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irie
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby irie » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:32 am

So has there been a verdict yet on this 9-hour NY mini-review? Is it worth paying $125 for? Not sure when it was supposed to be posted for the people taking the online course... but I seem to recall it being either yesterday or today.

FWIW my friend who took it last year thought it was pretty helpful, but they had a different professor (who apparently was very well-regarded) and he is no longer with BarBri. (They replaced him with Rueschler, the MPT dude, so I'm a bit less keen about dishing out the $$...)

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englawyer
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby englawyer » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:10 am

EijiMiyake wrote:Is there anyone that actually knows all the rules for the essays? I feel like I make up at least one rule (and sometimes an issue) for every essay that I do.

:?


i'd recommend looking at the actual questions/answers released by the NY Bar on their website (if u are taking NY). you can see that even in the "above average" essays, there is plenty of bullshitting and made up stuff. for example, in feb 2009, the question prompt for a crim problem had a criminal defendant move to dismiss the case because he had an alibi witness. as far as i know, this answer is making stuff up (eg # of witnesses etc):

"An alibi defense is a regular rather than an affirmative defense. A
defendant is entitled to a jury instruction on such defense if he has proffered
evidence tending to support such defense. There is no requisite number of
witnesses that must testify in order to establish an alibi defense. The prosecution
is free to impeach a potentially biased witness on cross-examination and present
evidence contradicting such defense. Ultimately, it is the prosecution that must
establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was the one who
committed the charged crime. "

Green Crayons
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Green Crayons » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:30 am

DwightSchruteFarms wrote:
Green Crayons wrote:if a suspect class (including classes defined by fundamental rights), then strict scrutiny applies;
This is what I am getting at. What would your rule statement say? "SS should be applied because the government is prohibiting "these people" from exercising a fundamental right." Sounds awk.
"The EPC is implicated because the law in question treats a class of people differently from the general populace. Because that class is defined by the exercise of a fundamental right, <state the fundamental right that defines the class>, strict scrutiny applies. Simultaneously, SDP is implicated because the law in question prohibits that class of people from exercising a right: <state the fundamental right being denied>. Because this right is defined as a fundamental right, strict scrutiny applies.

Thus, the law implicates both the EPC and SDP. Because evaluating the law here under both of these constitutional principals requires employing a strict scrutiny analysis, the following condenses those two analyses."


bailey123456789 wrote:I've always struggled a little bit with when to raise both SDP and EPC when your EPC claim is based on a fundamental right...it seems so redundant. But is that basically what I'm supposed to do?
It feels weird because it's a double layer of unconstitutionality. "Everyone can marry except those people who get abortions." Well duh I think we have some problems -- you're prohibiting access to a fundamental right (the right to marry) by excluding those people who have exercised a fundamental right (the right to have an abortion). It may be redundant in outcome (striking the law as unconstitutional on strict scrutiny grounds), but don't worry about that. Just follow the analysis and get your points.

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bailey123456789
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby bailey123456789 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:44 am

Green Crayons wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:
Green Crayons wrote:if a suspect class (including classes defined by fundamental rights), then strict scrutiny applies;
This is what I am getting at. What would your rule statement say? "SS should be applied because the government is prohibiting "these people" from exercising a fundamental right." Sounds awk.
"The EPC is implicated because the law in question treats a class of people differently from the general populace. Because that class is defined by the exercise of a fundamental right, <state the fundamental right that defines the class>, strict scrutiny applies. Simultaneously, SDP is implicated because the law in question prohibits that class of people from exercising a right: <state the fundamental right being denied>. Because this right is defined as a fundamental right, strict scrutiny applies.

Thus, the law implicates both the EPC and SDP. Because evaluating the law here under both of these constitutional principals requires employing a strict scrutiny analysis, the following condenses those two analyses."


bailey123456789 wrote:I've always struggled a little bit with when to raise both SDP and EPC when your EPC claim is based on a fundamental right...it seems so redundant. But is that basically what I'm supposed to do?
It feels weird because it's a double layer of unconstitutionality. "Everyone can marry except those people who get abortions." Well duh I think we have some problems -- you're prohibiting access to a fundamental right (the right to marry) by excluding those people who have exercised a fundamental right (the right to have an abortion). It may be redundant in outcome (striking the law as unconstitutional on strict scrutiny grounds), but don't worry about that. Just follow the analysis and get your points.


That really helps! Thanks!

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:28 pm

irie wrote:So has there been a verdict yet on this 9-hour NY mini-review? Is it worth paying $125 for? Not sure when it was supposed to be posted for the people taking the online course... but I seem to recall it being either yesterday or today.

FWIW my friend who took it last year thought it was pretty helpful, but they had a different professor (who apparently was very well-regarded) and he is no longer with BarBri. (They replaced him with Rueschler, the MPT dude, so I'm a bit less keen about dishing out the $$...)



I found it helpful. I'm much better at retaining stuff via lecturer or active learning(doing problems) than reading my notes so it was good for me. He also discusses some topics I didn't expect (Shareholder voting, Quorum requirements, etc), but i still don't think the corporations essay will be on those minor points. The way I look at it, I already dropped $3000 on Barbri, what's another $125.

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:55 pm

kaiser wrote:Anyone also taking NJ in here? I haven't cracked the BarBri NJ materials a single time since I've been so busy with NY. NJ essays are all based around MBE subject matter (lucky bastards), with the sole distinctions being NJ procedural issues. Hoping that I can pass simply by knowing the multistate substantive material well enough to knock out a few more essays.

I am. I definitely plan to look over the model answers to the essays since the essay formats are different from NY.... undecided on how much attention to devote to NJ practice. Some, I guess.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:57 pm

Green Crayons wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:
Green Crayons wrote:if a suspect class (including classes defined by fundamental rights), then strict scrutiny applies;
This is what I am getting at. What would your rule statement say? "SS should be applied because the government is prohibiting "these people" from exercising a fundamental right." Sounds awk.
"The EPC is implicated because the law in question treats a class of people differently from the general populace. Because that class is defined by the exercise of a fundamental right, <state the fundamental right that defines the class>, strict scrutiny applies. Simultaneously, SDP is implicated because the law in question prohibits that class of people from exercising a right: <state the fundamental right being denied>. Because this right is defined as a fundamental right, strict scrutiny applies.

Thus, the law implicates both the EPC and SDP. Because evaluating the law here under both of these constitutional principals requires employing a strict scrutiny analysis, the following condenses those two analyses."


bailey123456789 wrote:I've always struggled a little bit with when to raise both SDP and EPC when your EPC claim is based on a fundamental right...it seems so redundant. But is that basically what I'm supposed to do?
It feels weird because it's a double layer of unconstitutionality. "Everyone can marry except those people who get abortions." Well duh I think we have some problems -- you're prohibiting access to a fundamental right (the right to marry) by excluding those people who have exercised a fundamental right (the right to have an abortion). It may be redundant in outcome (striking the law as unconstitutional on strict scrutiny grounds), but don't worry about that. Just follow the analysis and get your points.


Thanks a ton dude

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knickfan
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby knickfan » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:41 pm

Does anyone feel as if the BarBri essay graders have become more lenient as we get closer to judgment day? Maybe as their way of building our confidence?

I only ask because throughout bar review, I never submitted 1 essay for grading. During this time I heard horror stories from friends getting back scores ranging from 1-3. I decided to submit 1 essay on their deadline, 3/19, and I got a 5. I took it timed but wrote off the top of my head and mixed up a lot of the laws. Thoughts/experiences?

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ace_of_spades
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby ace_of_spades » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:33 pm

Can someone explain #17 on MPQ2 set #3? I thought right of survivorship meant that everything would pass to sister. Are we saying that b/c the sister consented to the construction that TTIP changed and resulted in a severance?

Also, #24. I'm trying to wrap my head around how a spontaneous act is a volitional one. When I read spontaneous I think reflexive. I guess I'll have to break that habit.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Stinson » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:44 pm

ace_of_spades wrote:Can someone explain #17 on MPQ2 set #3? I thought right of survivorship meant that everything would pass to sister. Are we saying that b/c the sister consented to the construction that TTIP changed and resulted in a severance?

Also, #24. I'm trying to wrap my head around how a spontaneous act is a volitional one. When I read spontaneous I think reflexive. I guess I'll have to break that habit.


When they say reflexive they mean it very close to literally, like when the doctor hits your knee with the hammer and you kick. (The other category of non-volitional acts are unconscious acts, which in the questions either means sleep-walking or medical shock induced by trauma.) No time is too short for the creation of volition, and the act need not be elaborately thought out. In 24, the woman got mad suddenly and smacked the other person. Her anger was the reason she smacked her. That's all it takes.

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:04 pm

ace_of_spades wrote:Can someone explain #17 on MPQ2 set #3? I thought right of survivorship meant that everything would pass to sister. Are we saying that b/c the sister consented to the construction that TTIP changed and resulted in a severance?

Also, #24. I'm trying to wrap my head around how a spontaneous act is a volitional one. When I read spontaneous I think reflexive. I guess I'll have to break that habit.


For 17, I think the key is the call of the question. They're not asking you if it severed the joint tenancy interest. They're telling you that the court already stated that the tenancy had been severed. They're just asking what is the most plausible reason why this would happen. I've been studying this crap for 2 months and I've not once came across anything that said you can sever a joint tenancy by estoppel. Everything we've been presented with says that a joint tenancy can only be severed by a sale of one tenant's interest, partition (in kind and forced sale), by voluntary agreement, or by mortgage, depending on the jurisdiction. I wouldn't get hung up on that one though. It's just a weird question.

24 - I think you're getting the difference between spontaneous and reflexive mixed up. A reflexive act is something that you don't think about, and is a natural response to one of your senses. I.e. You go to pet a dog and it bites you, so you hurry up and pull your arm away and hit someone. That's not a volitional act. You don't think about it. But a spontaneous act can be anything really. I can walk down the street and punch the first guy I see and that could be spontaneous. Or I sit on my porch and shoot a shotgun at some random car. Just remember that a reflexive act is not the product of a willful decision.

goreman
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby goreman » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:32 pm

NY takers--NYMC Evidence Question #1--I thought a police report couldn't be used at all in criminal trials. Is that just a federal rule?

phonepro
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby phonepro » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:42 pm

Just did the first assorted set of 50 MC for NY. 27/50. Feel great!










#fml.

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:01 pm

phonepro wrote:Just did the first assorted set of 50 MC for NY. 27/50. Feel great!


#fml.



that's the average on test day and barbri's questions are harder.

for the 100th time, everyone relax about the NYMC.

Green Crayons
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Green Crayons » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:33 pm

Green Crayons wrote:Are the BarBri Virginia "SAQs" (assorted MC and short answer) up to date?

For example, Question 2 asks how many witnesses are required for a holographic will. The answer says that at least two competent witnesses are required, but O'Brien's handout said that witnesses aren't required for a holographic will, you only need two disinterested persons to verify the handwriting after the fact (e.g., during probate, not at the time of execution).

Similarly, Question 14 speaks to valid holographic will requirements. The answer says that only a date and completely handwritten is required (and says that a signature is not required), but, once again, O'Brien's handout says that a signature and completely handwritten is required (no mention of needing a date).

So, which answer is the right answer?



Also, Question 20 asks whether bringing a motion for judgment that has passed the applicable statutes of limitations is a violation of the Virginia Rules of Professional Conduct. The answer says yes, it is a violation. But isn't a SOL defense an affirmative defense that can be waived and therefore the claim has merit unless if the defense makes the appropriate special plea (and therefore no violation of Professional Rules)? I thought Freer said something like that way back when, but maybe I'm just making shit up at this point.
Quoting myself because surely I'm not the only Virginia taker ITT.

phonepro
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby phonepro » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:34 pm

tfer2222 wrote:
phonepro wrote:Just did the first assorted set of 50 MC for NY. 27/50. Feel great!


#fml.



that's the average on test day and barbri's questions are harder.

for the 100th time, everyone relax about the NYMC.


thanks babe <3 feel better now.

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:37 pm

knickfan wrote:Does anyone feel as if the BarBri essay graders have become more lenient as we get closer to judgment day? Maybe as their way of building our confidence?

I only ask because throughout bar review, I never submitted 1 essay for grading. During this time I heard horror stories from friends getting back scores ranging from 1-3. I decided to submit 1 essay on their deadline, 3/19, and I got a 5. I took it timed but wrote off the top of my head and mixed up a lot of the laws. Thoughts/experiences?



I turned in all of the essays I could. Grades range from 8-4. The 4 I misapplied the law on one of the issues. I hope they are relatively accurate.

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knickfan
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby knickfan » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:44 pm

Matteliszt wrote:
knickfan wrote:Does anyone feel as if the BarBri essay graders have become more lenient as we get closer to judgment day? Maybe as their way of building our confidence?

I only ask because throughout bar review, I never submitted 1 essay for grading. During this time I heard horror stories from friends getting back scores ranging from 1-3. I decided to submit 1 essay on their deadline, 3/19, and I got a 5. I took it timed but wrote off the top of my head and mixed up a lot of the laws. Thoughts/experiences?



I turned in all of the essays I could. Grades range from 8-4. The 4 I misapplied the law on one of the issues. I hope they are relatively accurate.


Nice. Do you think they graded you consistently throughout?

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:57 pm

knickfan wrote:
Matteliszt wrote:
knickfan wrote:Does anyone feel as if the BarBri essay graders have become more lenient as we get closer to judgment day? Maybe as their way of building our confidence?

I only ask because throughout bar review, I never submitted 1 essay for grading. During this time I heard horror stories from friends getting back scores ranging from 1-3. I decided to submit 1 essay on their deadline, 3/19, and I got a 5. I took it timed but wrote off the top of my head and mixed up a lot of the laws. Thoughts/experiences?



I turned in all of the essays I could. Grades range from 8-4. The 4 I misapplied the law on one of the issues. I hope they are relatively accurate.


Nice. Do you think they graded you consistently throughout?




Fairly. It's hard to tell. Sometimes I get a 1/2 point for stuff and other time 1/3 point. I've never seen them give me a full +1 for something. This rang true on the MPT's I submitted as well.The only real consistent thing for New York is that your headings get your at a bare minimum +1/3. I looked at some failing essays on Seperac and two things that really stick out in failing essays are either (1) overly conclusory or (2) very poorly organized. I think Barbri is probably on the conservative side of grading, but I also think after about a 6 you're really getting diminishing returns on your essays because at that point it's random subjective factors on how you phrased things or something. There is really no difference between my 8 and my 6s and the difference between my 5s and my 6s are pretty negligible (analysis is a little better). My 4 I applied equitable conversion instead of the UVPA and the grader punished me for it (I got +0, even on the issue statement) so the one thing I can say for sure is don't mess up something like that.


I still have a boatload out for grading. I can tell you more when they come back.

BeenDidThat
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby BeenDidThat » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:43 pm

Green Crayons wrote:
Green Crayons wrote:Are the BarBri Virginia "SAQs" (assorted MC and short answer) up to date?

For example, Question 2 asks how many witnesses are required for a holographic will. The answer says that at least two competent witnesses are required, but O'Brien's handout said that witnesses aren't required for a holographic will, you only need two disinterested persons to verify the handwriting after the fact (e.g., during probate, not at the time of execution).

Similarly, Question 14 speaks to valid holographic will requirements. The answer says that only a date and completely handwritten is required (and says that a signature is not required), but, once again, O'Brien's handout says that a signature and completely handwritten is required (no mention of needing a date).

So, which answer is the right answer?



Also, Question 20 asks whether bringing a motion for judgment that has passed the applicable statutes of limitations is a violation of the Virginia Rules of Professional Conduct. The answer says yes, it is a violation. But isn't a SOL defense an affirmative defense that can be waived and therefore the claim has merit unless if the defense makes the appropriate special plea (and therefore no violation of Professional Rules)? I thought Freer said something like that way back when, but maybe I'm just making shit up at this point.
Quoting myself because surely I'm not the only Virginia taker ITT.


Not a Virginia taker here, but maybe I can help. Check the wording on #2...if it's at trial stage, perhaps it's referencing the handwriting witnesses? No idea on 14.

As for the SoL issue...the claim has merit with respect to it being a cause of action for which the SoL can be waived and the suit will continue unhindered, but knowingly bringing a barred claim (and relying solely upon the potential negligence of opposing counsel to justify your bringing the claim) is pretty damn sketchy. I see what you're getting at: the client can recover if opposing counsel fails to assert the SoL. But filing a lawsuit that you know will be dismissed easily by a simple reply to your petition that includes the SoL is purty frivolous from the standpoint of you being an officer of the court who has a duty not to mislead the tribunal.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby jawsthegreat » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:02 pm

For NY takers, how important is the PR stuff? I haven't really looked at it and just don't see a question coming where it could be a significant portion of the grade. Am i just totally wrong to not worry about it?

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:08 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:For NY takers, how important is the PR stuff? I haven't really looked at it and just don't see a question coming where it could be a significant portion of the grade. Am i just totally wrong to not worry about it?


i literally just sat down to look at this stuff again (for the first time since the lecture).

If you took PR in law school / took the MPRE i feel like any issue they throw is going to be pretty manageable, and it'll most likely be a little side issue worth maybe 1 point.

I think i'm just gonna skim over this outline and mentally note any weird NY distinctions from what i already remember from that class, etc.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby BCLS » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:14 pm

tfer2222 wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:For NY takers, how important is the PR stuff? I haven't really looked at it and just don't see a question coming where it could be a significant portion of the grade. Am i just totally wrong to not worry about it?


i literally just sat down to look at this stuff again (for the first time since the lecture).

If you took PR in law school / took the MPRE i feel like any issue they throw is going to be pretty manageable, and it'll most likely be a little side issue worth maybe 1 point.

I think i'm just gonna skim over this outline and mentally note any weird NY distinctions from what i already remember from that class, etc.

MY state gives a PR question every exam. It's a "gimmie"

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:14 pm

I am hoping somebody can help clear me up with this concept:

For MPQ2 Mixed subjects set 3, Questions 38-39 when they use the term "traditional contributory negligence jurisdiction"- what the hell does that mean?




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