BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

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get it to x
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby get it to x » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:23 pm

stratocophic wrote:If MBE questions are like Barbri Advanced questions, my MBE score is going to be so low that, as a matter of policy, my state's examiners literally won't bother grading my essays. If they're like the Beginner/Intermediate questions, I've got at least a shot at passing comfortably.

Someone with knowledge tell me which of those two outcomes is more likely so I know who I should be cursing for their sadism - Barbri's question writers or the MBE's.


From what I have been able to piece together from TLS, BarBri, and anecdotal evidence from former classmates and my spouse, the questions run the gamut from MPQ Sets 1-4 with 3-4 representative of the harder end of medium. Sets 5 and 6 are outliers that will pop up on the exam, but not in concentrated numbers. If you can at least split 5 and 6 (17-19 correct) even if falling short of BarBri's goals you should be ok on the most nuanced questions.

I have also heard informally that the Barbri questions and the released MBE questions don't actually match up with what we will see on test day. The released MBEs are not really representative of the tricky questions which they retain and recycle. BarBri writes their questions "in the spirit of the MBE" and the scenarios might match up, but the questions are worded differently and distinctions between the two "correct" answers will be different than what BarBri has presented. The common thread I've gotten from people who took the MBE is that you will come out of the exam feeling that the BarBri experience was different than what the MBE actually asked. So expect resentment and disappointment along with the soul crushing experience of being overwhelmed.

I'm curious to see if anyone has heard the same or different. Everyone I spoke to passed by the way. I know BarBri shafted its students either last year or a few years prior by not covering topics that the MBE decided to concentrate on more thoroughly and then threw in additional materials the following year to make up for deficiency. Second Amendment comes to mind. It seems like anything is testable, it will be difficult, and Barbri will give you exposure to what the test may feel like, but it's not an exact or in some ways realistic match.
Last edited by get it to x on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:24 pm

stratocophic wrote:
stratocophic wrote:If MBE questions are like Barbri Advanced questions, my MBE score is going to be so low that, as a matter of policy, my state's examiners literally won't bother grading my essays. If they're like the Beginner/Intermediate questions, I've got at least a shot at passing comfortably.

Someone with knowledge tell me which of those two outcomes is more likely so I know who I should be cursing for their sadism - Barbri's question writers or the MBE's.

Cmon. I know one of you gunners knows whether the real questions are more like the Advanced Barbri nonsense or more like the Beginner/Intermediate.


They have told us over and over that the Set 5/6 Q's are supposed to be more representative of the hardest 15% of the test. And that Set 3/4 Q's are more representative of the majority of the test. Plus, most people I've spoken to seemed to say the simulated MBE (which is the same over the past few years) was a bit harder than the real thing was. But the biggest comment is that the "feel" is different.

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:37 pm

kaiser wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
stratocophic wrote:If MBE questions are like Barbri Advanced questions, my MBE score is going to be so low that, as a matter of policy, my state's examiners literally won't bother grading my essays. If they're like the Beginner/Intermediate questions, I've got at least a shot at passing comfortably.

Someone with knowledge tell me which of those two outcomes is more likely so I know who I should be cursing for their sadism - Barbri's question writers or the MBE's.

Cmon. I know one of you gunners knows whether the real questions are more like the Advanced Barbri nonsense or more like the Beginner/Intermediate.


They have told us over and over that the Set 5/6 Q's are supposed to be more representative of the hardest 15% of the test. And that Set 3/4 Q's are more representative of the majority of the test. Plus, most people I've spoken to seemed to say the simulated MBE (which is the same over the past few years) was a bit harder than the real thing was. But the biggest comment is that the "feel" is different.


I've done most of the questions in the strategies and tactics book (which are released questions) and they definitely feel different.

c3pO4
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:42 pm

can anybody articulate the difference? it can't be harder, right? since people tend to do better on the actual MBE than on the barbri/kaplan simulated MBE's.... how can we prepare for this different feel and not get hit by a train on exam day?

rnf1292
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby rnf1292 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:48 pm

Just bombed mpq2 set 3. This is not good

get it to x
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby get it to x » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:48 pm

c3pO4 wrote:can anybody articulate the difference? it can't be harder, right? since people tend to do better on the actual MBE than on the barbri/kaplan simulated MBE's.... how can we prepare for this different feel and not get hit by a train on exam day?


I asked the same thing and the response was it was just weirder which can ultimately translate to harder because bottom line you get the questions wrong. BarBri's overall approach is correct - two answers will be/should be easily eliminate and the distinctions between remaining choices will be very close/fine. From what I understand "fine" does not mean they are testing some exception in one and not the other and if you know the exception you're good. It feels more like guessing that you hope this the correct answer and move on. I don't think it's anything to prepare for. Most people can't even recall the MBE in detail. It's like they blacked out or had an out of body experience taking it. You take it, feel like you didn't get any correct, come home cry/break things, go to sleep and rest up for the state specific portion or head to the bar to black-out if you're done.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:52 pm

get it to x wrote:head to the bar to black-out if you're done.


Cant wait. (Insert Bart Scott voice)

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:01 pm

New York takers - Has anyone done Essay 47? Does the CPLR require service on the defendant's attorney or any attorney in an out of state jurisdiction?

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stratocophic
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby stratocophic » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:02 pm

Thx all, sounds like I've at least got a shot at passing. Hope to God being a multiple choice ninja comes through like it always has. Best of luck to everyone

0L Hoping for 1
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby 0L Hoping for 1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:05 pm

Anyone else have the urge to drink every single night while studying? haha

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:06 pm

0L Hoping for 1 wrote:Anyone else have the urge to drink every single night while studying? haha


Yes.

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sundevil77
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby sundevil77 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:11 pm

get it to x wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:can anybody articulate the difference? it can't be harder, right? since people tend to do better on the actual MBE than on the barbri/kaplan simulated MBE's.... how can we prepare for this different feel and not get hit by a train on exam day?


I asked the same thing and the response was it was just weirder which can ultimately translate to harder because bottom line you get the questions wrong. BarBri's overall approach is correct - two answers will be/should be easily eliminate and the distinctions between remaining choices will be very close/fine. From what I understand "fine" does not mean they are testing some exception in one and not the other and if you know the exception you're good. It feels more like guessing that you hope this the correct answer and move on. I don't think it's anything to prepare for. Most people can't even recall the MBE in detail. It's like they blacked out or had an out of body experience taking it. You take it, feel like you didn't get any correct, come home cry/break things, go to sleep and rest up for the state specific portion or head to the bar to black-out if you're done.


I am considering purchasing a practice exam from NCBE https://secure.ncbex2.org/catalog/ (National Conference of Bar Examiners). These are the real questions. A friend of mine screen shotted a couple of the questions, and the feel was very different. Not gonna lie, it kind of made me nervous. The question he sent me was a pretty hard one, so maybe it had something to do with that. In any event, the wording and feel of the question was more disimilar than I would've thought.

0L Hoping for 1
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby 0L Hoping for 1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:15 pm

tfer2222 wrote:
0L Hoping for 1 wrote:Anyone else have the urge to drink every single night while studying? haha


Yes.


My kind of people
Last edited by 0L Hoping for 1 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:15 pm

sundevil77 wrote:
get it to x wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:can anybody articulate the difference? it can't be harder, right? since people tend to do better on the actual MBE than on the barbri/kaplan simulated MBE's.... how can we prepare for this different feel and not get hit by a train on exam day?


I asked the same thing and the response was it was just weirder which can ultimately translate to harder because bottom line you get the questions wrong. BarBri's overall approach is correct - two answers will be/should be easily eliminate and the distinctions between remaining choices will be very close/fine. From what I understand "fine" does not mean they are testing some exception in one and not the other and if you know the exception you're good. It feels more like guessing that you hope this the correct answer and move on. I don't think it's anything to prepare for. Most people can't even recall the MBE in detail. It's like they blacked out or had an out of body experience taking it. You take it, feel like you didn't get any correct, come home cry/break things, go to sleep and rest up for the state specific portion or head to the bar to black-out if you're done.


I am considering purchasing a practice exam from NCBE https://secure.ncbex2.org/catalog/ (National Conference of Bar Examiners). These are the real questions. A friend of mine screen shotted a couple of the questions, and the feel was very different. Not gonna lie, it kind of made me nervous. The question he sent me was a pretty hard one, so maybe it had something to do with that. In any event, the wording and feel of the question was more disimilar than I would've thought.



I've done most of these. They feel like MPQ3s. They are a lot more straightforward than the barbri/kaplan ones.

get it to x
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby get it to x » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:30 pm

sundevil77 wrote:
get it to x wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:can anybody articulate the difference? it can't be harder, right? since people tend to do better on the actual MBE than on the barbri/kaplan simulated MBE's.... how can we prepare for this different feel and not get hit by a train on exam day?


I asked the same thing and the response was it was just weirder which can ultimately translate to harder because bottom line you get the questions wrong. BarBri's overall approach is correct - two answers will be/should be easily eliminate and the distinctions between remaining choices will be very close/fine. From what I understand "fine" does not mean they are testing some exception in one and not the other and if you know the exception you're good. It feels more like guessing that you hope this the correct answer and move on. I don't think it's anything to prepare for. Most people can't even recall the MBE in detail. It's like they blacked out or had an out of body experience taking it. You take it, feel like you didn't get any correct, come home cry/break things, go to sleep and rest up for the state specific portion or head to the bar to black-out if you're done.


I am considering purchasing a practice exam from NCBE https://secure.ncbex2.org/catalog/ (National Conference of Bar Examiners). These are the real questions. A friend of mine screen shotted a couple of the questions, and the feel was very different. Not gonna lie, it kind of made me nervous. The question he sent me was a pretty hard one, so maybe it had something to do with that. In any event, the wording and feel of the question was more disimilar than I would've thought.


Are the practice exam questions from a recently released actual test or are they just a bank of questions released by NCBE? If it's the latter, I don't know how efficacious that would be since I doubt they're going to show their hand on how the test is going to play out. The emphasis I've heard, and it's an obvious no-brainer, is just know the law the best you can/humanly possible. Know your distinctions. Remember the rules. BarBri performance on either the practice question sets or simulated MBE mid-term/final exam does not accurately reflect how well you will do or the feel of the questions you will see. It's not like the LSAT where you could practice on thousands of questions released by the wacko psychometricians who make them and can gauge your consistency fairly accurately. Again, from what I've been told, there is very little consistency here for most (do well on a MPQ 3 set, bomb a set 1, close to passing midterm, bomb final) and the "questions" we practice on are filtered through a medium who has to avoid copyright infringement and has other fish to fry like motivating you through demoralization to get your act together when the sun is out and all of your friends are going on vacation, hitting the bars after work, or having fun.

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stratocophic
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby stratocophic » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:48 pm

0L Hoping for 1 wrote:Anyone else have the urge to drink every single night while studying? haha
At this point I might have to chug 2 beers before the MBE to make sure I accurately recreate my usual state for doing practice questions

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KeepitKind
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby KeepitKind » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:58 pm

stratocophic wrote:
0L Hoping for 1 wrote:Anyone else have the urge to drink every single night while studying? haha
At this point I might have to chug 2 beers before the MBE to make sure I accurately recreate my usual state for doing practice questions


This guy

c3pO4
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:00 pm

sundevil77 wrote:
get it to x wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:can anybody articulate the difference? it can't be harder, right? since people tend to do better on the actual MBE than on the barbri/kaplan simulated MBE's.... how can we prepare for this different feel and not get hit by a train on exam day?


I asked the same thing and the response was it was just weirder which can ultimately translate to harder because bottom line you get the questions wrong. BarBri's overall approach is correct - two answers will be/should be easily eliminate and the distinctions between remaining choices will be very close/fine. From what I understand "fine" does not mean they are testing some exception in one and not the other and if you know the exception you're good. It feels more like guessing that you hope this the correct answer and move on. I don't think it's anything to prepare for. Most people can't even recall the MBE in detail. It's like they blacked out or had an out of body experience taking it. You take it, feel like you didn't get any correct, come home cry/break things, go to sleep and rest up for the state specific portion or head to the bar to black-out if you're done.


I am considering purchasing a practice exam from NCBE https://secure.ncbex2.org/catalog/ (National Conference of Bar Examiners). These are the real questions. A friend of mine screen shotted a couple of the questions, and the feel was very different. Not gonna lie, it kind of made me nervous. The question he sent me was a pretty hard one, so maybe it had something to do with that. In any event, the wording and feel of the question was more disimilar than I would've thought.


i emailed barbri and they said all these are included in the MPQ2 book interspersed throughout. you can also get them through multistate edge/barmax but barbri said we already have them so, ou've probabl seen them all if ou do the entire mpq2 book

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daphne
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby daphne » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:20 pm

I want to improve my real property (the poor subject for me according to the scores of SME) and did MPQ 1 and was so frustrated now.....Just got about half right

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:24 pm

daphne wrote:I want to improve my real property (the poor subject for me according to the scores of SME) and did MPQ 1 and was so frustrated now.....Just got about half right


Same. Its just awful. And its getting close to that point where you sorta need to shore up your foundations, and not persist in trying to cram in new stuff, so I'm worried I may never understand this stuff. Tried watching the simulated MBE property review, and Guzman laid out the key rules and ways of testing the material. Yet I still get so much stuff wrong. So frustrating since its the one thing holding me back right now on MBE.

Stinson
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Stinson » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:27 pm

I so want the MPQ2 mixed sets to be like the exam. Set 3 has a question where they tell you first degree murder in the state is defined as premeditated and deliberate, and then proceeds to ask whether the mental state of the perpetrator is relevant to the crime. :D

Anyway, my two cents is that the real thing must be mostly like MPQ1-4's. In my paced program at least, Barbri assigns Set 4's in the last 10 days of review. Set 4's have goals mostly in the low 60s or so. So they're saying that if, in the final days of review, you can nail about 2/3s on Set 4, that you are set to pass the MBE is just fine. And 65-75% is about where you want to be on the MBE to pass safely.

I certainly buy the proposition that the questions are different or feel different. But I also think, just looking at the numbers, that you should be feeling plenty confident if you're easily hitting goals on mixed sets consistently.

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daphne
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby daphne » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:29 pm

kaiser wrote:
daphne wrote:I want to improve my real property (the poor subject for me according to the scores of SME) and did MPQ 1 and was so frustrated now.....Just got about half right


Same. Its just awful. And its getting close to that point where you sorta need to shore up your foundations, and not persist in trying to cram in new stuff, so I'm worried I may never understand this stuff. Tried watching the simulated MBE property review, and Guzman laid out the key rules and ways of testing the material. Yet I still get so much stuff wrong. So frustrating since its the one thing holding me back right now on MBE.



Yes ! Exactly.
I got 11 property wrong on SME and I thought after review I can got more right but the result is just to show how I poorly understand property....
By the way I really hate the long fact patterns of property law......

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:42 pm

daphne wrote:
kaiser wrote:
daphne wrote:I want to improve my real property (the poor subject for me according to the scores of SME) and did MPQ 1 and was so frustrated now.....Just got about half right


Same. Its just awful. And its getting close to that point where you sorta need to shore up your foundations, and not persist in trying to cram in new stuff, so I'm worried I may never understand this stuff. Tried watching the simulated MBE property review, and Guzman laid out the key rules and ways of testing the material. Yet I still get so much stuff wrong. So frustrating since its the one thing holding me back right now on MBE.



Yes ! Exactly.
I got 11 property wrong on SME and I thought after review I can got more right but the result is just to show how I poorly understand property....
By the way I really hate the long fact patterns of property law......


On the simulated MBE, I scored 139, with 19 incorrect on property. Talk about holding me back.

Gonna do like a half-day property review sometime in the next few days. If I can just force myself to remember a few important rules, maybe I can squeeze out some extra points.

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as stars burn
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby as stars burn » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:43 pm

0L Hoping for 1 wrote:
tfer2222 wrote:
0L Hoping for 1 wrote:Anyone else have the urge to drink every single night while studying? haha


Yes.


My kind of people


I've had a glass of wine (or 2 or 3) every night for the past 2 weeks. LOL.

goodolgil
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby goodolgil » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:57 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:
get it to x wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:can anybody articulate the difference? it can't be harder, right? since people tend to do better on the actual MBE than on the barbri/kaplan simulated MBE's.... how can we prepare for this different feel and not get hit by a train on exam day?


I asked the same thing and the response was it was just weirder which can ultimately translate to harder because bottom line you get the questions wrong. BarBri's overall approach is correct - two answers will be/should be easily eliminate and the distinctions between remaining choices will be very close/fine. From what I understand "fine" does not mean they are testing some exception in one and not the other and if you know the exception you're good. It feels more like guessing that you hope this the correct answer and move on. I don't think it's anything to prepare for. Most people can't even recall the MBE in detail. It's like they blacked out or had an out of body experience taking it. You take it, feel like you didn't get any correct, come home cry/break things, go to sleep and rest up for the state specific portion or head to the bar to black-out if you're done.


I am considering purchasing a practice exam from NCBE https://secure.ncbex2.org/catalog/ (National Conference of Bar Examiners). These are the real questions. A friend of mine screen shotted a couple of the questions, and the feel was very different. Not gonna lie, it kind of made me nervous. The question he sent me was a pretty hard one, so maybe it had something to do with that. In any event, the wording and feel of the question was more disimilar than I would've thought.


i emailed barbri and they said all these are included in the MPQ2 book interspersed throughout. you can also get them through multistate edge/barmax but barbri said we already have them so, ou've probabl seen them all if ou do the entire mpq2 book


I feel like the BarBri rep is lying or ignorant here. If you look on the copyright page on MPQ2, it has the the copyright dates for thr released questions in the book and they're all 1987-1992.

Maybe those are the same questions they give to Themis, etc..., but I would have to believe the questions on the NCBE site are newer.




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