BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

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ben bernanke
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby ben bernanke » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:35 pm

MPQ2 Mixed Set 5, #50

Answer: (D) Suppressed, because it is the fruit of the defendant's involuntary statements

Why is (D) correct. Aren't physical fruits of a Miranda violation admissible?

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:38 pm

phonepro wrote:Is any1 else BOMBING the NY MC?

I was doubling up on videos, so I'm just getting around to them. Just got 10/22 on the New York practice MC set. WTF!? lol. I was in the 85th percentile on the simulated MBE.


the NYMC isn't supposed to be anything like MBE, so I wouldn't compare them.

and the average on the real bar exam for NYMC is like 26-27 / 50. I've heard most of them are a crapshoot. even the main Barbri guy said that on the first day of lecture. Don't worry about it.

and definitely don't compare them to MBE performance.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:27 pm

ben bernanke wrote:MPQ2 Mixed Set 5, #50

Answer: (D) Suppressed, because it is the fruit of the defendant's involuntary statements

Why is (D) correct. Aren't physical fruits of a Miranda violation admissible?


Physical fruits of Miranda violations are admissible, but this wasn't the fruit of a Miranda violation, so thats not an issue here. What in the facts here indicate that Miranda was in any way violated?

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:30 pm

phonepro wrote:Is any1 else BOMBING the NY MC?

I was doubling up on videos, so I'm just getting around to them. Just got 10/22 on the New York practice MC set. WTF!? lol. I was in the 85th percentile on the simulated MBE.


I just got 9/22 right. And this is after having studied my NY practice flashcards very recently. Had I not done that, I very well may have gotten only about 4 or 5 right. I just don't get it. I have all the major NY practice points in my flashcards. But these Q's for the most part try to dig into the minutia and subrules to the important points, making it so I can never fully determine the right answer.

hrcycle
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby hrcycle » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:16 pm

kaiser wrote:
ben bernanke wrote:MPQ2 Mixed Set 5, #50

Answer: (D) Suppressed, because it is the fruit of the defendant's involuntary statements

Why is (D) correct. Aren't physical fruits of a Miranda violation admissible?


Physical fruits of Miranda violations are admissible, but this wasn't the fruit of a Miranda violation, so thats not an issue here. What in the facts here indicate that Miranda was in any way violated?


Agree with Kaiser and looked at the fact pattern again. Seems like this is a 14th amendment due process issue.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:20 pm

hrcycle wrote:
kaiser wrote:
ben bernanke wrote:MPQ2 Mixed Set 5, #50

Answer: (D) Suppressed, because it is the fruit of the defendant's involuntary statements

Why is (D) correct. Aren't physical fruits of a Miranda violation admissible?


Physical fruits of Miranda violations are admissible, but this wasn't the fruit of a Miranda violation, so thats not an issue here. What in the facts here indicate that Miranda was in any way violated?


Agree with Kaiser and looked at the fact pattern again. Seems like this is a 14th amendment due process issue.


Thats what I was thinking also. Forcing someone to sit and be subject to interrogation for 10 straight hours to the point where they have to lie to get out of it goes beyond mere Miranda violation (even if Miranda had been administered, invoked, and violated). Goes into the realm of a violation of due process rights.

ben bernanke
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby ben bernanke » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:01 am

kaiser wrote:
hrcycle wrote:
kaiser wrote:
ben bernanke wrote:MPQ2 Mixed Set 5, #50

Answer: (D) Suppressed, because it is the fruit of the defendant's involuntary statements

Why is (D) correct. Aren't physical fruits of a Miranda violation admissible?


Physical fruits of Miranda violations are admissible, but this wasn't the fruit of a Miranda violation, so thats not an issue here. What in the facts here indicate that Miranda was in any way violated?


Agree with Kaiser and looked at the fact pattern again. Seems like this is a 14th amendment due process issue.


Thats what I was thinking also. Forcing someone to sit and be subject to interrogation for 10 straight hours to the point where they have to lie to get out of it goes beyond mere Miranda violation (even if Miranda had been administered, invoked, and violated). Goes into the realm of a violation of due process rights.


That makes sense to me. Thanks for the analysis!

get it to x
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby get it to x » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:23 am

Just got half right on the MPQ1 Set 4 in Torts after a full substantive review. Lovely. Maybe it's because I'm tired and have a headache, but this just feels terrible. At least I don't seem to have trouble with essays or I'd probably be going certifiably nuts.

c3pO4
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:27 am

get it to x wrote:Just got half right on the MPQ1 Set 4 in Torts after a full substantive review. Lovely. Maybe it's because I'm tired and have a headache, but this just feels terrible. At least I don't seem to have trouble with essays or I'd probably be going certifiably nuts.


"it's wooooorrking, it's wooorking" *maniacal laugh* --barbri curriculum planner's meeting

de5igual
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby de5igual » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:31 am

Did anyone's PACE schedule change? All the assigned mbe sets are now off my schedule. Not sure if its a glitch :-/

get it to x
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby get it to x » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:45 am

c3pO4 wrote:
get it to x wrote:Just got half right on the MPQ1 Set 4 in Torts after a full substantive review. Lovely. Maybe it's because I'm tired and have a headache, but this just feels terrible. At least I don't seem to have trouble with essays or I'd probably be going certifiably nuts.


"it's wooooorrking, it's wooorking" *maniacal laugh* --barbri curriculum planner's meeting


If by "working" you mean wanting to ram my head into a wall, then yes my paced program is perfectly on track for that to happen. I cannot work any harder than I already am and I'm tired of reading the subliminal "oops, btw forgot to go over this subtopic with you in the CMR or lecture, but don't worry it's in the 800+ page outline we provided" in the answer analysis.

DwightSchruteFarms
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:15 am

get it to x wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
get it to x wrote:Just got half right on the MPQ1 Set 4 in Torts after a full substantive review. Lovely. Maybe it's because I'm tired and have a headache, but this just feels terrible. At least I don't seem to have trouble with essays or I'd probably be going certifiably nuts.


"it's wooooorrking, it's wooorking" *maniacal laugh* --barbri curriculum planner's meeting


If by "working" you mean wanting to ram my head into a wall, then yes my paced program is perfectly on track for that to happen. I cannot work any harder than I already am and I'm tired of reading the subliminal "oops, btw forgot to go over this subtopic with you in the CMR or lecture, but don't worry it's in the 800+ page outline we provided" in the answer analysis.



Dude, same thing happened to me. I do the Set 2s at night before I leave the library and I do the Set 4s the following AM. I always score shit on the Set 2s bc I'm exhausted from a full day of review, but the imp thing is to just make sure you know what you missed and def don't just pass it off as a "tired mistake." I normally do quite well on the Set 4s when I'm refreshed.

Keep you head up bro

goodolgil
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby goodolgil » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:08 am

Any NY'ers do the essays assigned for today (Wednesday?). The first two were kind of ridiculous.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby 0L Hoping for 1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:20 am

f0bolous wrote:Did anyone's PACE schedule change? All the assigned mbe sets are now off my schedule. Not sure if its a glitch :-/


Mine just completely changed too (actually pushed me back 2%!). Its weird because the next couple days they only gave me enough on their PACE program to fill like 3 hours or so a day, but they tell me I should be doing like 10.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:06 pm

Hadn't submitted too many essays for grading earlier in Paced Program since I really wanted to learn the law first. So this past weekend, I did like 4 of the submission essays and sent them all in, and I'm getting like 4 on every single one. Is it safe to say that a 4 from the BarBri graders would translate to something higher on the real thing? Sort of discouraging to not hit what should be our "average" (score of 5) one single time yet.

DwightSchruteFarms
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby DwightSchruteFarms » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:21 pm

kaiser wrote:Hadn't submitted too many essays for grading earlier in Paced Program since I really wanted to learn the law first. So this past weekend, I did like 4 of the submission essays and sent them all in, and I'm getting like 4 on every single one. Is it safe to say that a 4 from the BarBri graders would translate to something higher on the real thing? Sort of discouraging to not hit what should be our "average" (score of 5) one single time yet.



The first essay I turned in, CA Evidence, I basically copied the answer key since I didn't have any of the CA distinctions memorized but i still wanted to get the experience of writing it out. Passing is a 65. They gave me a 60.

get it to x
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby get it to x » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:08 pm

kaiser wrote:Hadn't submitted too many essays for grading earlier in Paced Program since I really wanted to learn the law first. So this past weekend, I did like 4 of the submission essays and sent them all in, and I'm getting like 4 on every single one. Is it safe to say that a 4 from the BarBri graders would translate to something higher on the real thing? Sort of discouraging to not hit what should be our "average" (score of 5) one single time yet.


Barbri grades down by a point to a point and half per a call to Barbri itself. So if you were just under passing you passed and if you passed you made up some additional ground.

Was the consensus on here that the MBE drills at the beginning were difficult or average? I thought they got after some pretty nit-picky stuff. Then again, I seem to be struggling on the MBE in everything except Con Law and Crim so maybe it's just me being an idiot.

c3pO4
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:13 pm

DwightSchruteFarms wrote:
kaiser wrote:Hadn't submitted too many essays for grading earlier in Paced Program since I really wanted to learn the law first. So this past weekend, I did like 4 of the submission essays and sent them all in, and I'm getting like 4 on every single one. Is it safe to say that a 4 from the BarBri graders would translate to something higher on the real thing? Sort of discouraging to not hit what should be our "average" (score of 5) one single time yet.



The first essay I turned in, CA Evidence, I basically copied the answer key since I didn't have any of the CA distinctions memorized but i still wanted to get the experience of writing it out. Passing is a 65. They gave me a 60.


according to some calculator online i saw if you drop a 70% spot on the MBE you can get quite a few 60s on the essays and stil pass

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:19 pm

get it to x wrote:
kaiser wrote:Hadn't submitted too many essays for grading earlier in Paced Program since I really wanted to learn the law first. So this past weekend, I did like 4 of the submission essays and sent them all in, and I'm getting like 4 on every single one. Is it safe to say that a 4 from the BarBri graders would translate to something higher on the real thing? Sort of discouraging to not hit what should be our "average" (score of 5) one single time yet.


Barbri grades down by a point to a point and half per a call to Barbri itself. So if you were just under passing you passed and if you passed you made up some additional ground.

Was the consensus on here that the MBE drills at the beginning were difficult or average? I thought they got after some pretty nit-picky stuff. Then again, I seem to be struggling on the MBE in everything except Con Law and Crim so maybe it's just me being an idiot.


The drills seemed pretty fair to me. On every set (except for property, which I'm awful at), I got either 13 or 14 out of 17, so it was very consistent across the board. I did those a few days before the simulated MBE for some extra MBE practice.

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:28 pm

get it to x wrote:
kaiser wrote:Hadn't submitted too many essays for grading earlier in Paced Program since I really wanted to learn the law first. So this past weekend, I did like 4 of the submission essays and sent them all in, and I'm getting like 4 on every single one. Is it safe to say that a 4 from the BarBri graders would translate to something higher on the real thing? Sort of discouraging to not hit what should be our "average" (score of 5) one single time yet.


Barbri grades down by a point to a point and half per a call to Barbri itself. So if you were just under passing you passed and if you passed you made up some additional ground.

Was the consensus on here that the MBE drills at the beginning were difficult or average? I thought they got after some pretty nit-picky stuff. Then again, I seem to be struggling on the MBE in everything except Con Law and Crim so maybe it's just me being an idiot.


I just did the last one today (been doing one each day this week as I go over an MBE subject). I thought they were fair but some of them are definitely tricky. I was ranging everywhere from 10 to 15 right. I added up everything after I finished the last set today and came out to about 68-69% for every set combined. So if I do that on the real thing, I'll be perfectly happy.

A lot of the ones I missed, however, were because of glossing over an important fact (in a property question, it said that guy bought a house and took it "subject to" the mortgage, but that he "assumed payments." I only paid attention to the "subject to" and glanced over the "assume" and missed the question).

rnf1292
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby rnf1292 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:37 pm

Does anyone have a short summary on car searches for MBE crim pro? My notes are confusing the hell out of me.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:43 pm

rnf1292 wrote:Does anyone have a short summary on car searches for MBE crim pro? My notes are confusing the hell out of me.


Always keep in mind the key overarching rule: If there is probable cause as to the car, the entire car can be searched, including all containers within. But the search of the car must be within the scope of the PC that justified the automobile search. So if they have PC over the car to find a stolen TV, you can't search the glove compartment. But if PC is for drugs, you can search anywhere drugs could reasonably be found (which includes many more small places). Of course, always distinguish this from the rules of searches incident to arrest (since the rules pertaining to car searches with the search is incident to arrest are different). Thus, as a threshold matter, determine why the car is being search. Was it incident to an arrest? Or did police have PC over the car for some reason, stopped the car, and conducted the search?

rnf1292
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby rnf1292 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:15 pm

kaiser wrote:
rnf1292 wrote:Does anyone have a short summary on car searches for MBE crim pro? My notes are confusing the hell out of me.


Always keep in mind the key overarching rule: If there is probable cause as to the car, the entire car can be searched, including all containers within. But the search of the car must be within the scope of the PC that justified the automobile search. So if they have PC over the car to find a stolen TV, you can't search the glove compartment. But if PC is for drugs, you can search anywhere drugs could reasonably be found (which includes many more small places). Of course, always distinguish this from the rules of searches incident to arrest (since the rules pertaining to car searches with the search is incident to arrest are different). Thus, as a threshold matter, determine why the car is being search. Was it incident to an arrest? Or did police have PC over the car for some reason, stopped the car, and conducted the search?


Thanks! I also just found a useful chart in the CMR if anyone is interested.

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KeepitKind
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby KeepitKind » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:41 pm

kaiser wrote:
rnf1292 wrote:Does anyone have a short summary on car searches for MBE crim pro? My notes are confusing the hell out of me.


Always keep in mind the key overarching rule: If there is probable cause as to the car, the entire car can be searched, including all containers within. But the search of the car must be within the scope of the PC that justified the automobile search. So if they have PC over the car to find a stolen TV, you can't search the glove compartment. But if PC is for drugs, you can search anywhere drugs could reasonably be found (which includes many more small places). Of course, always distinguish this from the rules of searches incident to arrest (since the rules pertaining to car searches with the search is incident to arrest are different). Thus, as a threshold matter, determine why the car is being search. Was it incident to an arrest? Or did police have PC over the car for some reason, stopped the car, and conducted the search?


What about a Terry "frisk" of the car. Wouldn't that only require reasonable suspicion? And what are the limits on that semi-search?

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:50 pm

KeepitKind wrote:
kaiser wrote:
rnf1292 wrote:Does anyone have a short summary on car searches for MBE crim pro? My notes are confusing the hell out of me.


Always keep in mind the key overarching rule: If there is probable cause as to the car, the entire car can be searched, including all containers within. But the search of the car must be within the scope of the PC that justified the automobile search. So if they have PC over the car to find a stolen TV, you can't search the glove compartment. But if PC is for drugs, you can search anywhere drugs could reasonably be found (which includes many more small places). Of course, always distinguish this from the rules of searches incident to arrest (since the rules pertaining to car searches with the search is incident to arrest are different). Thus, as a threshold matter, determine why the car is being search. Was it incident to an arrest? Or did police have PC over the car for some reason, stopped the car, and conducted the search?


What about a Terry "frisk" of the car. Wouldn't that only require reasonable suspicion? And what are the limits on that semi-search?


I have to review back on a Terry frisk of the car, and what the procedure is. My guess is that it would be a quick protective sweep for weapons. Obviously would be pretty narrow. Of course, for the person, you can also seize contraband if you know from first touch that it is contraband (in that it takes no manipulation to figure out), but that doesn't really apply to cars.




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