BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:57 am

jawsthegreat wrote:What's a good score to shoot for on the NYMC 1-50 and 51-100 practice sets? I can't seem to find a "goal" anywhere.

I'm shooting for just under half on the NYMC, because 1) seriously, fuck the NYMC, and 2) you only need 30/50 on the real thing, and that's if you don't overperform Barbri's targets on anything else, and the NYMC are probably harder than the real thing.

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camstant
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby camstant » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:03 am

MrSoOoFLy wrote:Anyone doing the additional NY Review course after the regular course? I hear mixed things about it. And another 8 hours of lecture cuts into serious study time.


I'm skeptical of them trying to sell me something else at this point. But yeah, that's a full day of studying that may or may not be focused on what I personally need to work on.

locodave
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby locodave » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:29 am

tried watching the MPT lecture after finishing all the NY lectures... i just can't with this guy. so much time wasted on so little basic overview information...

seeing as how my barbri handout has a bunch of blank spaces in it... can anyone point me to a good MPT overview, what I need to know re: format for all the question types? thanks...

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:44 am

locodave wrote:tried watching the MPT lecture after finishing all the NY lectures... i just can't with this guy. so much time wasted on so little basic overview information...

seeing as how my barbri handout has a bunch of blank spaces in it... can anyone point me to a good MPT overview, what I need to know re: format for all the question types? thanks...


The front of your MPT book has a short outline that will tell you the same things that the guy in the MPT lecture will. You can cover everything, and don't have to sit through 2 or 3 hours of watching the guy pick his nose every 3-5 minutes (if your lecture video has the same guy in the one I watched)

rnf1292
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby rnf1292 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:42 pm

I'm at a point where I can't really tell if I'm retaining new info or if I'm just going through the motions. Blah.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:52 pm

rnf1292 wrote:I'm at a point where I can't really tell if I'm retaining new info or if I'm just going through the motions. Blah.

I'm in the same boat. I feel like I have a basic understanding of the stuff, but as I'm going through it and reviewing, I just don't know if I'm retaining it. I'm making short outlines with just basic rules and stuff and have been reviewing them every night because I can't even seem to retain anything for longer than a couple of days anymore.

I can memorize stuff pretty easily usually, but it's slowed down significantly and i have to spent a lot more time just trying to commit basic rules to memory. The only thing I've got going for me is that I front-loaded most of the memorization, so it's not like I'm having to memorize all of property law today, then move on to contracts tomorrow. But it's those little nuances that are getting me, and I don't remember the various nuances that I had picked up from doing 2000 + practice questions. It sucks.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby bgdddymtty » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:21 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Anyone think the Set 4 MPQ1 questions were hard and picky as hell? 9/18 and that was after I read the CMR. Sometimes I feel like the CMR just dumps too much knowledge and confuses the crap out of me for MBEs


Yeah, just bummed myself out getting 9/18 on Torts Set 4 after reading the Torts CMR yesterday.


did set 4 today. i think the better you know the law, the harder these mpq1 sets become. barbri's answer choices are so ridiculous that the "correct" answer doesn't exist so you have to force yourself to pick something you know is wrong. i guess it's good training but seems like just more flame. after 10 weeks they are just running out of ways to make this exam seem hard.
No offense intended, but if you think that many of Barbri's questions don't have a correct answer (as opposed to the occasional question here or there), you probably have the wrong approach. It's true that many times the correct answer isn't perfectly satisfying or doesn't say what you want it to say, but that's to be expected. If every question just asked you to spit out the rule, the bar would be really easy. Instead, you're often given answer choices that focus only on pieces of the relevant rules, or give conditional statements where the condition seems unlikely, or whatever. But it's still nearly always the case that three of the answers are flawed in some way, while the correct answer contains no flaw. Spotting those flaws--and figuring out how the correct answer manages to avoid being flawed--is almost as important to your MBE score as is knowing the rules of law.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:41 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Anyone think the Set 4 MPQ1 questions were hard and picky as hell? 9/18 and that was after I read the CMR. Sometimes I feel like the CMR just dumps too much knowledge and confuses the crap out of me for MBEs


Yeah, just bummed myself out getting 9/18 on Torts Set 4 after reading the Torts CMR yesterday.


did set 4 today. i think the better you know the law, the harder these mpq1 sets become. barbri's answer choices are so ridiculous that the "correct" answer doesn't exist so you have to force yourself to pick something you know is wrong. i guess it's good training but seems like just more flame. after 10 weeks they are just running out of ways to make this exam seem hard.
No offense intended, but if you think that many of Barbri's questions don't have a correct answer (as opposed to the occasional question here or there), you probably have the wrong approach. It's true that many times the correct answer isn't perfectly satisfying or doesn't say what you want it to say, but that's to be expected. If every question just asked you to spit out the rule, the bar would be really easy. Instead, you're often given answer choices that focus only on pieces of the relevant rules, or give conditional statements where the condition seems unlikely, or whatever. But it's still nearly always the case that three of the answers are flawed in some way, while the correct answer contains no flaw. Spotting those flaws--and figuring out how the correct answer manages to avoid being flawed--is almost as important to your MBE score as is knowing the rules of law.


haha bro, you showed me. what's your studysmart mbe percentile, though?

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby bgdddymtty » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:55 pm

c3pO4 wrote:haha bro, you showed me. what's your studysmart mbe percentile, though?
Fine. Have it your way. I thought we were trying to help each other around here.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby daphne » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:12 pm

Are we allowed to bring watch on the exam day?

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:13 pm

daphne wrote:Are we allowed to bring watch on the exam day?


Regular watch I'm certain we can bring

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Stinson » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:21 pm

Doing well on MPQ2's but they're freaking me out; I feel like if I ever promise to give someone a piece of land but I won't give them the deed until the next day, I am 95% certain to die before having the chance to give him/her the deed.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:25 pm

Stinson wrote:Doing well on MPQ2's but they're freaking me out; I feel like if I ever promise to give someone a piece of land but I won't give them the deed until the next day, I am 95% certain to die before having the chance to give him/her the deed.


I wish we could reserve some of the horrible tort Q deaths for the idiots who always forget to record in the property Q's. That ought to teach them

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:28 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:
DwightSchruteFarms wrote:Anyone think the Set 4 MPQ1 questions were hard and picky as hell? 9/18 and that was after I read the CMR. Sometimes I feel like the CMR just dumps too much knowledge and confuses the crap out of me for MBEs


Yeah, just bummed myself out getting 9/18 on Torts Set 4 after reading the Torts CMR yesterday.


did set 4 today. i think the better you know the law, the harder these mpq1 sets become. barbri's answer choices are so ridiculous that the "correct" answer doesn't exist so you have to force yourself to pick something you know is wrong. i guess it's good training but seems like just more flame. after 10 weeks they are just running out of ways to make this exam seem hard.
No offense intended, but if you think that many of Barbri's questions don't have a correct answer (as opposed to the occasional question here or there), you probably have the wrong approach. It's true that many times the correct answer isn't perfectly satisfying or doesn't say what you want it to say, but that's to be expected. If every question just asked you to spit out the rule, the bar would be really easy. Instead, you're often given answer choices that focus only on pieces of the relevant rules, or give conditional statements where the condition seems unlikely, or whatever. But it's still nearly always the case that three of the answers are flawed in some way, while the correct answer contains no flaw. Spotting those flaws--and figuring out how the correct answer manages to avoid being flawed--is almost as important to your MBE score as is knowing the rules of law.


This is 100% correct, further if you look at the released MBE questions in the Strategies and Tactics book you will see that the released MBE questions do the exact same thing, ruling out bad answers is much more likely to get you the right reasoning than choosing what you think the applicable law is

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:33 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:haha bro, you showed me. what's your studysmart mbe percentile, though?
Fine. Have it your way. I thought we were trying to help each other around here.



if you don't think barbri is purposefully trying to hide the ball *more* than the actual MBE, congrats you have fallen for their bs. i never said the right answer on the MBE will be the "correct rule of law." i'm just pointing out something (which you admit in your post) about how barbri purposefully creates questions where two answers are each arguably the "best" even if you know the exceptions to the exceptions really well. but you jumped at the opportunity to "no offense" insult me and try to tell me i don't "get" the MBE. my response was having it "your" way, by playing your game of "i get it better than you." (i probably do, unless you are top 1%). my initial post was "trying to help each other around here" when I told OP not to worry about 9/18 on MPQS4 if they were getting 75+% on MPQ2 sets. if 95+% of 20k barbri students are getting sub 80% on these MPQ1 question sets after 10 weeks of intense studying, it's because some of the questions are a coin flip. /

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:44 pm

Matteliszt wrote:This is 100% correct, further if you look at the released MBE questions in the Strategies and Tactics book you will see that the released MBE questions do the exact same thing, ruling out bad answers is much more likely to get you the right reasoning than choosing what you think the applicable law is


agreed. also tip that the released MBE q's are in barbri's MPQ2 as well.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby MrSoOoFLy » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:04 pm

Seat assignments emailed. This just got real.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:09 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Matteliszt wrote:This is 100% correct, further if you look at the released MBE questions in the Strategies and Tactics book you will see that the released MBE questions do the exact same thing, ruling out bad answers is much more likely to get you the right reasoning than choosing what you think the applicable law is


agreed. also tip that the released MBE q's are in barbri's MPQ2 as well.


If you are NY, also note that BarBri gives us files of about 35-40 released Q's from each MBE subject. I found them to be FAR easier than the BarBrI Q's. Of course, those Q's are older, with a bunch of them being 2 Q's from one fact pattern.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:10 pm

MrSoOoFLy wrote:Seat assignments emailed. This just got real.


Aw yeah, Times Union Center. Gonna rock my Devils jersey for good luck

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby bgdddymtty » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:14 pm

c3pO4 wrote:if you don't think barbri is purposefully trying to hide the ball *more* than the actual MBE, congrats you have fallen for their bs.
There's a world of difference between hiding the ball and questions not having correct answers.

barbri purposefully creates questions where two answers are each arguably the "best" even if you know the exceptions to the exceptions really well.
No, they don't. If you think two answers are equally good, you're (in most cases) missing something.

if 95+% of 20k barbri students are getting sub 80% on these MPQ1 question sets after 10 weeks of intense studying, it's because some of the questions are a coin flip.
Around 95% of applicants get sub-80% on the actual MBE. It's a hard test. The difference between the correct answer and the best incorrect one is often quite subtle, and purposefully so. Still, in nearly all cases, one answer is objectively correct. Furthermore, almost none of the scores for MPQ1 tests are "after 10 weeks of intense studying." My program, for example, had me taking two Sets 5 during my first full week of lectures (in addition to three other sets). Those scores count into the percentiles every bit as much as if I took them today.

By the way, I really did mean no offense to you. I do think, though, that your approach is misguided if you're consistently finding questions where you think none of the answers/multiple answers are correct. And I say that from the position of being someone who is about as good at standardized multiple-choice tests as a person can be. The LSAT score in my profile is legit, and I achieved it with virtually no preparation. I'm not just some knucklehead spouting off just to procrastinate my own bar study (though that is a powerful motivator).

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby EijiMiyake » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:18 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:if you don't think barbri is purposefully trying to hide the ball *more* than the actual MBE, congrats you have fallen for their bs.
There's a world of difference between hiding the ball and questions not having correct answers.

barbri purposefully creates questions where two answers are each arguably the "best" even if you know the exceptions to the exceptions really well.
No, they don't. If you think two answers are equally good, you're (in most cases) missing something.

if 95+% of 20k barbri students are getting sub 80% on these MPQ1 question sets after 10 weeks of intense studying, it's because some of the questions are a coin flip.
Around 95% of applicants get sub-80% on the actual MBE. It's a hard test. The difference between the correct answer and the best incorrect one is often quite subtle, and purposefully so. Still, in nearly all cases, one answer is objectively correct. Furthermore, almost none of the scores for MPQ1 tests are "after 10 weeks of intense studying." My program, for example, had me taking two Sets 5 during my first full week of lectures (in addition to three other sets). Those scores count into the percentiles every bit as much as if I took them today.

By the way, I really did mean no offense to you. I do think, though, that your approach is misguided if you're consistently finding questions where you think none of the answers/multiple answers are correct. And I say that from the position of being someone who is about as good at standardized multiple-choice tests as a person can be. The LSAT score in my profile is legit, and I achieved it with virtually no preparation. I'm not just some knucklehead spouting off just to procrastinate my own bar study (though that is a powerful motivator).



True, but the average score for the simulated MBE - taken just last week - is supposedly 110-ish. Do you really believe people raise their scores, ON AVERAGE, 28 legit points in the last 3 weeks, while trying to memorize state-specific info and do a ton of essays? That suggests that BarBri's testing is just weird.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby bgdddymtty » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:38 pm

EijiMiyake wrote:True, but the average score for the simulated MBE - taken just last week - is supposedly 110-ish. Do you really believe people raise their scores, ON AVERAGE, 28 legit points in the last 3 weeks, while trying to memorize state-specific info and do a ton of essays? That suggests that BarBri's testing is just weird.
Most of the sim MBE's--more than 2/3, based on TLSers' experience--were done either June 30 or July 7. A lot of people don't start taking bar prep seriously until at least July 1, so I think a huge jump is fairly reasonable. Also, I never said the Barbri questions aren't harder than those on the MBE; I hope for all of our sakes that they are. The question, though, is whether the Barbri questions are wrong. I've found a handful that I thought were out of the 1600 or so I've done during the last two months, but no more than that.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:45 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:
EijiMiyake wrote:True, but the average score for the simulated MBE - taken just last week - is supposedly 110-ish. Do you really believe people raise their scores, ON AVERAGE, 28 legit points in the last 3 weeks, while trying to memorize state-specific info and do a ton of essays? That suggests that BarBri's testing is just weird.
Most of the sim MBE's--more than 2/3, based on TLSers' experience--were done either June 30 or July 7. A lot of people don't start taking bar prep seriously until at least July 1, so I think a huge jump is fairly reasonable. Also, I never said the Barbri questions aren't harder than those on the MBE; I hope for all of our sakes that they are. The question, though, is whether the Barbri questions are wrong. I've found a handful that I thought were out of the 1600 or so I've done during the last two months, but no more than that.


allright, you seem like a legit dude, so i think we can agree to be internet chill. what i meant to say, which you've said more clearly, was that many of the subtle distinctions are so difficult to remember all at once that in any barbri set (this goes much more for mpq1 than mpq2) at least a few of the questions you will get wrong even if you pick up on the subtlety being tested. my theory about this test is that only 75-80% of the material is possible to retain at any one time, so you only remember the last 75-80% of the stuff you reviewed. that's why the maximum score (barring rare genius or photog memory) for someone who studies their ass off for the full time from late may-bar is still less than 85% right. i never meant to say barbri is wrong, i just meant to say the two "least wrong" are closer on barbri MPQ1 than they are on MPQ2 and the actual bar exam (mpq2 being more like the actual bar exam).

as for the score increases. i think it is partially attributable for the slightly easier to spot subtleties on the real questions (this might account for a 3-5% increasE) and mUCH more attributable to increased studying, repitition, and learning so that things that appeared hard or confusing reveal themselves to be just another trick which you've seen 9 times before b the time the actual test rolls around.

on another note, i totally get why my friends said not to worry about studing until july. haing gone HARD (pACE + 3-5 hours of extra shit) since day 1 in late may, i feel overprepared and undermotivated and worry that my head is out of the game--thus why you see me on TLS right now. might need a day off or to take some ultra-advanced quiz/essay marathon to get the fear back.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby bgdddymtty » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:49 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
bgdddymtty wrote:
EijiMiyake wrote:True, but the average score for the simulated MBE - taken just last week - is supposedly 110-ish. Do you really believe people raise their scores, ON AVERAGE, 28 legit points in the last 3 weeks, while trying to memorize state-specific info and do a ton of essays? That suggests that BarBri's testing is just weird.
Most of the sim MBE's--more than 2/3, based on TLSers' experience--were done either June 30 or July 7. A lot of people don't start taking bar prep seriously until at least July 1, so I think a huge jump is fairly reasonable. Also, I never said the Barbri questions aren't harder than those on the MBE; I hope for all of our sakes that they are. The question, though, is whether the Barbri questions are wrong. I've found a handful that I thought were out of the 1600 or so I've done during the last two months, but no more than that.


allright, you seem like a legit dude, so i think we can agree to be internet chill. what i meant to say, which you've said more clearly, was that many of the subtle distinctions are so difficult to remember all at once that in any barbri set (this goes much more for mpq1 than mpq2) at least a few of the questions you will get wrong even if you pick up on the subtlety being tested. my theory about this test is that only 75-80% of the material is possible to retain at any one time, so you only remember the last 75-80% of the stuff you reviewed. that's why the maximum score (barring rare genius or photog memory) for someone who studies their ass off for the full time from late may-bar is still less than 85% right. i never meant to say barbri is wrong, i just meant to say the two "least wrong" are closer on barbri MPQ1 than they are on MPQ2 and the actual bar exam (mpq2 being more like the actual bar exam).

as for the score increases. i think it is partially attributable for the slightly easier to spot subtleties on the real questions (this might account for a 3-5% increasE) and mUCH more attributable to increased studying, repitition, and learning so that things that appeared hard or confusing reveal themselves to be just another trick which you've seen 9 times before b the time the actual test rolls around.

on another note, i totally get why my friends said not to worry about studing until july. haing gone HARD (pACE + 3-5 hours of extra shit) since day 1 in late may, i feel overprepared and undermotivated and worry that my head is out of the game--thus why you see me on TLS right now. might need a day off or to take some ultra-advanced quiz/essay marathon to get the fear back.
Word to all of this.

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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby moxypoxy » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:05 pm

Took the simulated MBE at home a few days ago and did well on it (above the goal range), my question is: can I still turn in the scantron this late to get my breakdown? How do I do this? Is it worth it?

Appreciate the help.




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