BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

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gonezo77
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby gonezo77 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:31 pm

Anybody know which theory of proximate cause is the default for felony murder rule on the MBE. I know it's either agent or the one where you can be held liable for the death of anyone but your accomplice (agent).

Thanks.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:34 pm

gonezo77 wrote:Anybody know which theory of proximate cause is the default for felony murder rule on the MBE. I know it's either agent or the one where you can be held liable for the death of anyone but your accomplice (agent).

Thanks.


On MBE, its proximate cause theory, so if a police officer is shooting at the co-conspirator, and kills a civilian, the co-conspirators are both guilty of murder. This is the majority approach, and nothing in our notes suggests that NY is different. Agency theory is only a minority view, so on an NY essay, I'd assume proximity as well.

wildhaggis
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby wildhaggis » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:36 pm

Probably seems a bit late, but...

What's everyone doing with their laptops during the MBE? I know we can't bring them, but I'll be checking out of my hotel the morning of the MBE so I'm not entirely sure what to do with it.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:36 pm

blong4133 wrote:
EijiMiyake wrote:Anyone else a little worried about the MPT? It's going to be a bit of a time crunch, especially after a full day of essays before that.



I am. I just constantly feel like I'm rushing myself through it and not thoroughly analyzing facts/being able to think about how I want to write it. And I took a ton of writing classes in school and had other extracurriculars where I did a lot of "practical" writing. But these things definitely have me worried.


Just do well on your MBE and do decently on the essays, and you will have tons of MPT leeway.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:37 pm

wildhaggis wrote:Probably seems a bit late, but...

What's everyone doing with their laptops during the MBE? I know we can't bring them, but I'll be checking out of my hotel the morning of the MBE so I'm not entirely sure what to do with it.


Leave your bag checked in the hotel. They will hang onto your things for you. Thats where I'm leaving my suitcase for the day once I check out in the morning on Weds.

wildhaggis
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby wildhaggis » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:47 pm

kaiser wrote:
wildhaggis wrote:Probably seems a bit late, but...

What's everyone doing with their laptops during the MBE? I know we can't bring them, but I'll be checking out of my hotel the morning of the MBE so I'm not entirely sure what to do with it.


Leave your bag checked in the hotel. They will hang onto your things for you. Thats where I'm leaving my suitcase for the day once I check out in the morning on Weds.


They'll hold your stuff for you even after you've checked out?

clashjones87
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby clashjones87 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:49 pm

wildhaggis wrote:
kaiser wrote:
wildhaggis wrote:Probably seems a bit late, but...

What's everyone doing with their laptops during the MBE? I know we can't bring them, but I'll be checking out of my hotel the morning of the MBE so I'm not entirely sure what to do with it.


Leave your bag checked in the hotel. They will hang onto your things for you. Thats where I'm leaving my suitcase for the day once I check out in the morning on Weds.


They'll hold your stuff for you even after you've checked out?


Most hotels do this.

wildhaggis
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby wildhaggis » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:50 pm

clashjones87 wrote:
wildhaggis wrote:
kaiser wrote:
wildhaggis wrote:Probably seems a bit late, but...

What's everyone doing with their laptops during the MBE? I know we can't bring them, but I'll be checking out of my hotel the morning of the MBE so I'm not entirely sure what to do with it.


Leave your bag checked in the hotel. They will hang onto your things for you. Thats where I'm leaving my suitcase for the day once I check out in the morning on Weds.


They'll hold your stuff for you even after you've checked out?


Most hotels do this.


Appreciate it.

conwaystern
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby conwaystern » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:51 pm

wildhaggis wrote:Probably seems a bit late, but...

What's everyone doing with their laptops during the MBE? I know we can't bring them, but I'll be checking out of my hotel the morning of the MBE so I'm not entirely sure what to do with it.


Leaving it in my hotel room since I'm staying Wednesday night and getting shwasted.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:52 pm

conwaystern wrote:
wildhaggis wrote:Probably seems a bit late, but...

What's everyone doing with their laptops during the MBE? I know we can't bring them, but I'll be checking out of my hotel the morning of the MBE so I'm not entirely sure what to do with it.


Leaving it in my hotel room since I'm staying Wednesday night and getting shwasted.


While everyone is getting schwasted and finally free, I'll be stuck on a bus back to NJ to sit for an additional day and do essays that I haven't practiced one bit for. Fun stuff.

wildhaggis
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby wildhaggis » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:52 pm

Hate to ask another obvious question, but are you guys actually putting your laptops in a 2-1/2 gallon bag for the first day? A little surprised we can't bring them in laptop bags.

Brassica7
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Brassica7 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:53 pm

Is anyone else worried about coming to incorrect conclusions on bar essays? Even if I spot the issue and know the law, half the time I come to the wrong conclusion. This is freaking me out.

Example: P has expert witness testify. D gets expert witness to admit on cross exam that P is paying him for his testimony. P now wants to introduce a second witness to testify to Expert Witness's reputation for truth and honesty. Admissible?

My thought process: you are generally not allowed to bolster a witness's credibility, but you are allowed to rehabilitate a witness if his credibility has been attacked. I also know that you can impeach the credibility of a witness by showing interest, bias, or motive. Here, the D has attacked the expert witness's credibility by suggesting he has a motive to lie because he is being paid. Therefore, the P should be allowed to rehabilitate the expert witness.

Model Answer: the expert's testimony has not been impeached. No bolstering.

Do other people have this problem? Or the one where the issue in the essay question wasn't even mentioned in Barbri's lecture?

wildhaggis
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby wildhaggis » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:56 pm

Brassica7 wrote:Is anyone else worried about coming to incorrect conclusions on bar essays? Even if I spot the issue and know the law, half the time I come to the wrong conclusion. This is freaking me out.

Example: P has expert witness testify. D gets expert witness to admit on cross exam that P is paying him for his testimony. P now wants to introduce a second witness to testify to Expert Witness's reputation for truth and honesty. Admissible?

My thought process: you are generally not allowed to bolster a witness's credibility, but you are allowed to rehabilitate a witness if his credibility has been attacked. I also know that you can impeach the credibility of a witness by showing interest, bias, or motive. Here, the D has attacked the expert witness's credibility by suggesting he has a motive to lie because he is being paid. Therefore, the P should be allowed to rehabilitate the expert witness.

Model Answer: the expert's testimony has not been impeached. No bolstering.

Do other people have this problem? Or the one where the issue in the essay question wasn't even mentioned in Barbri's lecture?


I have the same problem, especially with questions that require a judgment call on the facts.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:56 pm

Brassica7 wrote:Is anyone else worried about coming to incorrect conclusions on bar essays? Even if I spot the issue and know the law, half the time I come to the wrong conclusion. This is freaking me out.

Example: P has expert witness testify. D gets expert witness to admit on cross exam that P is paying him for his testimony. P now wants to introduce a second witness to testify to Expert Witness's reputation for truth and honesty. Admissible?

My thought process: you are generally not allowed to bolster a witness's credibility, but you are allowed to rehabilitate a witness if his credibility has been attacked. I also know that you can impeach the credibility of a witness by showing interest, bias, or motive. Here, the D has attacked the expert witness's credibility by suggesting he has a motive to lie because he is being paid. Therefore, the P should be allowed to rehabilitate the expert witness.

Model Answer: the expert's testimony has not been impeached. No bolstering.

Do other people have this problem? Or the one where the issue in the essay question wasn't even mentioned in Barbri's lecture?


Just make your thought process logical, show that you understand the rules, apply them in a reasonable way, etc. So you made a little mistake and assumed that bias is the same as impeaching credibility. Hell, reading the facts you laid out, I would have given the exact same answer you did. And you know what? Would have still milked out a solid number of points.

A bunch of times I've felt like something was somewhat in bad faith where model answer says it isn't, or something seems egregious to me, whereas the model answer says its not a huge deal. Or I make a small mistake in a nuance of the law I never really thought about. I'm sure you gave the right rules about bolstering, impeachment of witnesses, use of bias to impeach, etc. You probably still get like 75% or more of the available points for that.

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swc65
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby swc65 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:02 pm

Brassica7 wrote:Is anyone else worried about coming to incorrect conclusions on bar essays? Even if I spot the issue and know the law, half the time I come to the wrong conclusion. This is freaking me out.

Example: P has expert witness testify. D gets expert witness to admit on cross exam that P is paying him for his testimony. P now wants to introduce a second witness to testify to Expert Witness's reputation for truth and honesty. Admissible?

My thought process: you are generally not allowed to bolster a witness's credibility, but you are allowed to rehabilitate a witness if his credibility has been attacked. I also know that you can impeach the credibility of a witness by showing interest, bias, or motive. Here, the D has attacked the expert witness's credibility by suggesting he has a motive to lie because he is being paid. Therefore, the P should be allowed to rehabilitate the expert witness.

Model Answer: the expert's testimony has not been impeached. No bolstering.

Do other people have this problem? Or the one where the issue in the essay question wasn't even mentioned in Barbri's lecture?


I have this problem all the time. I think I read somewhere that if you reach the conclusion that follows logically from your (mis)statement of the law, you will receive points. Most of us won't remember half of the law so this makes sense to me.

Also Barbri explanations ore often lacking- try looking at the model answers on the bar's site.

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swc65
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby swc65 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:06 pm

kaiser wrote:
Brassica7 wrote:Is anyone else worried about coming to incorrect conclusions on bar essays? Even if I spot the issue and know the law, half the time I come to the wrong conclusion. This is freaking me out.

Example: P has expert witness testify. D gets expert witness to admit on cross exam that P is paying him for his testimony. P now wants to introduce a second witness to testify to Expert Witness's reputation for truth and honesty. Admissible?

My thought process: you are generally not allowed to bolster a witness's credibility, but you are allowed to rehabilitate a witness if his credibility has been attacked. I also know that you can impeach the credibility of a witness by showing interest, bias, or motive. Here, the D has attacked the expert witness's credibility by suggesting he has a motive to lie because he is being paid. Therefore, the P should be allowed to rehabilitate the expert witness.

Model Answer: the expert's testimony has not been impeached. No bolstering.

Do other people have this problem? Or the one where the issue in the essay question wasn't even mentioned in Barbri's lecture?


Just make your thought process logical, show that you understand the rules, apply them in a reasonable way, etc. So you made a little mistake and assumed that bias is the same as impeaching credibility. Hell, reading the facts you laid out, I would have given the exact same answer you did. And you know what? Would have still milked out a solid number of points.

A bunch of times I've felt like something was somewhat in bad faith where model answer says it isn't, or something seems egregious to me, whereas the model answer says its not a huge deal. Or I make a small mistake in a nuance of the law I never really thought about. I'm sure you gave the right rules about bolstering, impeachment of witnesses, use of bias to impeach, etc. You probably still get like 75% or more of the available points for that.



I feel like this is the only way they could do it. Otherwise any missed fact or misstatement of the law or misapplication would destroy the grade.

rnf1292
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby rnf1292 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:16 pm

Could definitely use another days worth of memorizing. Sigh. What's done is done.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:18 pm

rnf1292 wrote:Could definitely use another days worth of memorizing. Sigh. What's done is done.


Does yours start tomorrow?

Brassica7
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Brassica7 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:27 pm

swc65 wrote:
kaiser wrote:
Brassica7 wrote:Is anyone else worried about coming to incorrect conclusions on bar essays? Even if I spot the issue and know the law, half the time I come to the wrong conclusion. This is freaking me out.

Example: P has expert witness testify. D gets expert witness to admit on cross exam that P is paying him for his testimony. P now wants to introduce a second witness to testify to Expert Witness's reputation for truth and honesty. Admissible?

My thought process: you are generally not allowed to bolster a witness's credibility, but you are allowed to rehabilitate a witness if his credibility has been attacked. I also know that you can impeach the credibility of a witness by showing interest, bias, or motive. Here, the D has attacked the expert witness's credibility by suggesting he has a motive to lie because he is being paid. Therefore, the P should be allowed to rehabilitate the expert witness.

Model Answer: the expert's testimony has not been impeached. No bolstering.

Do other people have this problem? Or the one where the issue in the essay question wasn't even mentioned in Barbri's lecture?


Just make your thought process logical, show that you understand the rules, apply them in a reasonable way, etc. So you made a little mistake and assumed that bias is the same as impeaching credibility. Hell, reading the facts you laid out, I would have given the exact same answer you did. And you know what? Would have still milked out a solid number of points.

A bunch of times I've felt like something was somewhat in bad faith where model answer says it isn't, or something seems egregious to me, whereas the model answer says its not a huge deal. Or I make a small mistake in a nuance of the law I never really thought about. I'm sure you gave the right rules about bolstering, impeachment of witnesses, use of bias to impeach, etc. You probably still get like 75% or more of the available points for that.



I feel like this is the only way they could do it. Otherwise any missed fact or misstatement of the law or misapplication would destroy the grade.


Thank you. I appreciate the support. I know that most people pass and I probably will too; I just have to keep this in mind.

wildhaggis
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby wildhaggis » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:46 pm

IL bar folks: is there any parking at either site? If so, how much does it cost? I'd like to avoid Chicago parking costs as much as possible.

choochoo
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby choochoo » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Sorry if this has been discussed, but how do the 18 sample questions from the 2013 MBE Information Booklet (--LinkRemoved--) compare to the $50 tests other people have been paying for? Similar difficulty or is one easier? My score on the 18 sample questions wasn't as high as my usual barbri scores so I'm a bit concerned.

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:27 pm

kaiser wrote:
Brassica7 wrote:Is anyone else worried about coming to incorrect conclusions on bar essays? Even if I spot the issue and know the law, half the time I come to the wrong conclusion. This is freaking me out.

Example: P has expert witness testify. D gets expert witness to admit on cross exam that P is paying him for his testimony. P now wants to introduce a second witness to testify to Expert Witness's reputation for truth and honesty. Admissible?

My thought process: you are generally not allowed to bolster a witness's credibility, but you are allowed to rehabilitate a witness if his credibility has been attacked. I also know that you can impeach the credibility of a witness by showing interest, bias, or motive. Here, the D has attacked the expert witness's credibility by suggesting he has a motive to lie because he is being paid. Therefore, the P should be allowed to rehabilitate the expert witness.

Model Answer: the expert's testimony has not been impeached. No bolstering.

Do other people have this problem? Or the one where the issue in the essay question wasn't even mentioned in Barbri's lecture?


Just make your thought process logical, show that you understand the rules, apply them in a reasonable way, etc. So you made a little mistake and assumed that bias is the same as impeaching credibility. Hell, reading the facts you laid out, I would have given the exact same answer you did. And you know what? Would have still milked out a solid number of points.

A bunch of times I've felt like something was somewhat in bad faith where model answer says it isn't, or something seems egregious to me, whereas the model answer says its not a huge deal. Or I make a small mistake in a nuance of the law I never really thought about. I'm sure you gave the right rules about bolstering, impeachment of witnesses, use of bias to impeach, etc. You probably still get like 75% or more of the available points for that.


I think this has to be right. I'm not sure if those "score sheets" that barbri gave from in the essay advantage book or in the back of the MEE book are representative of the point allocation, but the conclusion is only one part of a large set of factors that are considered.

When I did the practice MEE test, I had a few questions where I reached the wrong conclusion, but still got a bunch of points for hitting the right rule/discussing the relevant facts. There was one question where I completely missed a total sub issue, and was still able to get a passing score (granted, according to barbri) and STILL missed the conclusion on the other sub issues.

What kaiser said has to be right. If they're going to start docking major points just for reaching the wrong conclusion, the pass rates would plummet. Do you think that 70% of the people that answer any one question is getting the right conclusion? I personally don't think the point of the essays is to see if you can get the right conclusion (because, arguably, many of the questions are close calls that could go either way). They're looking to see if you can spot an issue and apply the rule to the facts. As long as you reach a logical conclusion, discuss the rules, and adequately apply the facts, I would assume that you're going to get a passing grade.

But regardless, I wish everyone on here the best of luck on the exam! I'm sure you'll all do fine, and let's hope I'll be on the pass list with the rest of you!

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:51 pm

choochoo wrote:Sorry if this has been discussed, but how do the 18 sample questions from the 2013 MBE Information Booklet (--LinkRemoved--) compare to the $50 tests other people have been paying for? Similar difficulty or is one easier? My score on the 18 sample questions wasn't as high as my usual barbri scores so I'm a bit concerned.

My score was much better on the full length.

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sundevil77
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby sundevil77 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:12 am

Tomorrow's not too late to learn commercial paper, right? Riiiiiight? (Crickets).

clashjones87
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby clashjones87 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:25 am

sundevil77 wrote:Tomorrow's not too late to learn commercial paper, right? Riiiiiight? (Crickets).


I think you can learn the basics of any topic in a day.




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