BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

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imchuckbass58
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:56 am

kaiser wrote:
joban224 wrote:How are fellow NY takers feeling? Apparently BarBri essay graders are much stricter than the Bar Examiners? --i.e., if you were getting 4's, on the real thing it's no less than a 5 and likely a 6.


Thats what I've heard. And now that I look back at BarBri's sample essays, it seems like 4's aren't even all that good an an answer anyway. I feel like, just by noting the right issues, with just some baseline discussion, you get a 5. Add in some supplementary points (i.e. noting viable exceptions, saying the summary judgment standard if its a motion for SJ, etc.) and I think it would be very hard to get below a 5.


I've also found that the released questions are easier than the barbri-written ones. So even if the grading rubric is roughly the same on the real questions, it's easier to hit every or almost every issue on the real thing because they're all questions on major topics, whereas on the barbri questions there's often some bizarre exception to the exception to the exception that wasn't covered in lecture.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:59 am

imchuckbass58 wrote:
kaiser wrote:
joban224 wrote:How are fellow NY takers feeling? Apparently BarBri essay graders are much stricter than the Bar Examiners? --i.e., if you were getting 4's, on the real thing it's no less than a 5 and likely a 6.


Thats what I've heard. And now that I look back at BarBri's sample essays, it seems like 4's aren't even all that good an an answer anyway. I feel like, just by noting the right issues, with just some baseline discussion, you get a 5. Add in some supplementary points (i.e. noting viable exceptions, saying the summary judgment standard if its a motion for SJ, etc.) and I think it would be very hard to get below a 5.


I've also found that the released questions are easier than the barbri-written ones. So even if the grading rubric is roughly the same on the real questions, it's easier to hit every or almost every issue on the real thing because they're all questions on major topics, whereas on the barbri questions there's often some bizarre exception to the exception to the exception that wasn't covered in lecture.


I don't think there are BarBri-written essay Q's. The earlier Q's (the non "R" Q's) have been cut down by BarBri to remove certain portions since the older essays covered too many subjects at once. But they are still real essays.
Last edited by kaiser on Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:59 am

Scurredsitless1 wrote:
kaiser wrote:
blong4133 wrote:Man, do I royally suck at MPT's.

And I took every practical writing class that my school offered.

I hate my life right now. (in addition to my lack of confidence in general)


What did you find that made it difficult? Just synthesizing everything? Time pressure? Sifting out the extraneous stuff?


Those Barbri model answers..... they are sooo ridiculous. So ridiculous.....


Yeah, I think probably the biggest source of my frustration is that I have no idea what a passing MPT looks like. I mean, with the Essays, I know that if you at least spot the issues, can spit out a rule and analyze it with the facts, you're probably going to get a passing answer as long as it's not overly conclusive or just completely miss the boat with something.

But with these damn MPT's I look at my answer and compare it with Barbri's and feel hopeless. Luckily they're only 20 % (10% each) so if I royally screw one up, it may not kill me.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:28 pm

Got scared and finally watched the commercial paper video. Have no clue wat da fuk she was talking about and I might as well have not even watched it. Oh well, guess i'll just gamble that there won't be a commercial paper essay.

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PitchO20
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby PitchO20 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:49 pm

kaiser wrote:Got scared and finally watched the commercial paper video. Have no clue wat da fuk she was talking about and I might as well have not even watched it. Oh well, guess i'll just gamble that there won't be a commercial paper essay.


I watched the video but still haven't looked at the material. My plan (based on the detailed frequency chart): (1) memorize the elements of a negotiable instrument; (2) ???; (3) profit.

And for secured transactions, my knowledge is that a creditor can engage in self-help, but his repo man can't breach the peace. Bam.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:53 pm

PitchO20 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Got scared and finally watched the commercial paper video. Have no clue wat da fuk she was talking about and I might as well have not even watched it. Oh well, guess i'll just gamble that there won't be a commercial paper essay.


I watched the video but still haven't looked at the material. My plan (based on the detailed frequency chart): (1) memorize the elements of a negotiable instrument; (2) ???; (3) profit.

And for secured transactions, my knowledge is that a creditor can engage in self-help, but his repo man can't breach the peace. Bam.


Yeah, elements of negotiable instrument, and liability of drawee bank constitute 75% of all commercial paper issues that have ever been asked.

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Glock
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Glock » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:55 pm

PitchO20 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Got scared and finally watched the commercial paper video. Have no clue wat da fuk she was talking about and I might as well have not even watched it. Oh well, guess i'll just gamble that there won't be a commercial paper essay.


I watched the video but still haven't looked at the material. My plan (based on the detailed frequency chart): (1) memorize the elements of a negotiable instrument; (2) ???; (3) profit.

And for secured transactions, my knowledge is that a creditor can engage in self-help, but his repo man can't breach the peace. Bam.



Add HDC elements and you will do fine in about half of com. pap. esssays.

1) negotiable elements
2) HDC elements
3) First person to trust a forger is going to end up holding the bag; indorsers liable to people below them.

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:21 pm

kaiser wrote:
I don't think there are BarBri-written essay Q's. The earlier Q's (the non "R" Q's) have been cut down by BarBri to remove certain portions since the older essays covered too many subjects at once. But they are still real essays.


i disagree. if they were all real, they'd still have the BOLE copyright-thing for the non-"R" questions in there. See page 77 - it says "the following are actual bar examination questions that were released . . . blah blah"

Yeah, the early non-R ones were revised because they were longer in the past to reflect the longer actual questions due to the lack of MPT, but they're still originally Barbri-written questions.

Plus there is a noticeable difference in difficulty.

I could be wrong, but this has been my understanding.

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:30 pm

New York - can a bailor be held liable for a bailee's negligence when the bailee has consent to use the bailor's property (Looking at essay #97)?

wildhaggis
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby wildhaggis » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:39 pm

I hate being the person who asks about their score but I really have no clue what the scaling is on these NCBE tests.

That said, I just purchased and took the first one on the advice of those in this thread, and got a 165 scaled. Not sure how to interpret this and want to know how I should be focusing the rest of today and tomorrow. Should I keep practicing multiple choice or am I good?

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:39 pm

Matteliszt wrote:New York - can a bailor be held liable for a bailee's negligence when the bailee has consent to use the bailor's property (Looking at essay #97)?


Is it a car? NY has a permissive use statute so yes i think so.

c3pO4
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby c3pO4 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:41 pm

wildhaggis wrote:I hate being the person who asks about their score but I really have no clue what the scaling is on these NCBE tests.

That said, I just purchased and took the first one on the advice of those in this thread, and got a 165 scaled. Not sure how to interpret this and want to know how I should be focusing the rest of today and tomorrow. Should I keep practicing multiple choice or am I good?


u can look at the pdf of answer explanations and count up the wrong answers. 165 scaled means you got 80% raw or better. that's a draw pictures on the essays type of score

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:49 pm

tfer2222 wrote:
kaiser wrote:
I don't think there are BarBri-written essay Q's. The earlier Q's (the non "R" Q's) have been cut down by BarBri to remove certain portions since the older essays covered too many subjects at once. But they are still real essays.


i disagree. if they were all real, they'd still have the BOLE copyright-thing for the non-"R" questions in there. See page 77 - it says "the following are actual bar examination questions that were released . . . blah blah"

Yeah, the early non-R ones were revised because they were longer in the past to reflect the longer actual questions due to the lack of MPT, but they're still originally Barbri-written questions.

Plus there is a noticeable difference in difficulty.

I could be wrong, but this has been my understanding.


You are right. I misread when I saw BarBri saying they edited the Q's down. I assumed that meant they edited down real Q's. They had just edited down their prior Q's that they themselves put out.

You find the released essays easier? I certainly hope that ends up being the case.

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:49 pm

tfer2222 wrote:
Matteliszt wrote:New York - can a bailor be held liable for a bailee's negligence when the bailee has consent to use the bailor's property (Looking at essay #97)?


Is it a car? NY has a permissive use statute so yes i think so.



Yeah it's a car. Is this in that Vehicle Safety Code or whatever it's called? Is this in the CMR somewhere? The model answer took a nod at this statute too in a separate personal jurisdiction section for the Non-Resident Motorist Statute.

kaiser
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby kaiser » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:51 pm

Matteliszt wrote:
tfer2222 wrote:
Matteliszt wrote:New York - can a bailor be held liable for a bailee's negligence when the bailee has consent to use the bailor's property (Looking at essay #97)?


Is it a car? NY has a permissive use statute so yes i think so.



Yeah it's a car. Is this in that Vehicle Safety Code or whatever it's called? Is this in the CMR somewhere? The model answer took a nod at this statute too in a separate personal jurisdiction section for the Non-Resident Motorist Statute.


Yeah its in the CMR. Was in the NY practice handout also, when he was talking about the various grounds for specific personal jurisdiction.

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:52 pm

Matteliszt wrote:
tfer2222 wrote:
Matteliszt wrote:New York - can a bailor be held liable for a bailee's negligence when the bailee has consent to use the bailor's property (Looking at essay #97)?


Is it a car? NY has a permissive use statute so yes i think so.



Yeah it's a car. Is this in that Vehicle Safety Code or whatever it's called? Is this in the CMR somewhere? The model answer took a nod at this statute too in a separate personal jurisdiction section for the Non-Resident Motorist Statute.


check out the CMR NY Distinctions for Torts page 5. Permissive Use Statute listed under vicarious liability.

imchuckbass58
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:55 pm

Question for anyone in NY that did Essay R-19:

On the third issue (summary judgment), I thought the issue was whether the suit is barred by no-fault insurance (i.e., Paul can only bring suit if you suffer serious injury or damages in excess of basic economic loss), not whether Paul has stated a negligence claim (as indicated in the model answer). Can anyone explain why I'm wrong (or, agree with me that Barbri is wrong)?

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EijiMiyake
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby EijiMiyake » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:56 pm

Just did the Domestic Relations MC questions and got 4/18. Guess I shouldn't choose 'best interests of the child' at every opportunity.

clashjones87
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby clashjones87 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:03 pm

Question regarding how the MEE is graded.

Does anyone have any insight or examples on the type of essay that would be barely passing for the UBE? Barbri, of course, is not helpful in this regard.

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:10 pm

tfer2222 wrote:
Matteliszt wrote:
tfer2222 wrote:
Matteliszt wrote:New York - can a bailor be held liable for a bailee's negligence when the bailee has consent to use the bailor's property (Looking at essay #97)?


Is it a car? NY has a permissive use statute so yes i think so.



Yeah it's a car. Is this in that Vehicle Safety Code or whatever it's called? Is this in the CMR somewhere? The model answer took a nod at this statute too in a separate personal jurisdiction section for the Non-Resident Motorist Statute.


check out the CMR NY Distinctions for Torts page 5. Permissive Use Statute listed under vicarious liability.



Thanks!!

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:35 pm

clashjones87 wrote:Question regarding how the MEE is graded.

Does anyone have any insight or examples on the type of essay that would be barely passing for the UBE? Barbri, of course, is not helpful in this regard.



I don't know if you've seen it yet or not, but in the back of the MEE book from barbri, there are two practice exams with 6 essays each. they all have a "score sheet" that you can use to check to see how you did on each question. There's a chart after each question that tells you whether you were "significantly below passing/below passing/passing/slightly above passing/significantly above passing" at the end of each score sheet.

Also, in the Essay Advantage book (if you have it) they also have one essay for each topic followed by a score sheet.

Obviously it doesn't take into account the scale or other factors that may come into play, but I would say that if you're hitting the "passing' range on those, you'd probably get a passing score on the real essays.

If you have used them, I would say that's probably pretty representative of whether it would get a passing score. Of course, if you have a bunch of people fudge an essay, the scores will probably get a bump.

But of course, I've never taken the bar exam. haha

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PitchO20
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby PitchO20 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:42 pm

I can't wait for this shit to be over. What a stupid, pointless hazing experience.

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tfer2222
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby tfer2222 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:50 pm

PitchO20 wrote:I can't wait for this shit to be over. What a stupid, pointless hazing experience.


It really is. Just think of all the wasted resources put into this process. Time, money, man power.

blong4133
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby blong4133 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:51 pm

PitchO20 wrote:I can't wait for this shit to be over. What a stupid, pointless hazing experience.


+1

I just hope it's over for good after wednesday :/

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Matteliszt
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Re: BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam

Postby Matteliszt » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:53 pm

NY Takers: This is a real off topic question, but how do they choose the attorney for the "uninterested attorney" requirement for conflicts checks? Can I just nominate Tfer2222?




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