BarBri Thread: People taking Barbri for July 2013 exam Forum

[lightsandbuzz]

For VA bar folks, is there any reason to watch O'Brien's Wills lectures? He has filled in the entire outline, and he is basically just slowly reading from it verbatim.

[Joe Quincy]

For VA bar folks, is there any reason to watch O'Brien's Wills lectures? He has filled in the entire outline, and he is basically just slowly reading from it verbatim.

He provides some minor examples and commentary not in the outline but not a ton. That said, he also doesn't through in extraneous stuff so on 1.5x it isn't much slower than just reading the outline.

That and its a high test area...

[daphne]

I don't understand the free speech part. What's the relation of standard for non-public/public forums and the standard for commercial speech, symbol conduct, etc?
Con Law Set 5 Q 12 involves a commercial speech in non-public forums and the answer says the standard regarding non-public forum prevails. Is that every time we have a question regarding speech in non-public forums we can ignore other test and just apply the viewpoint neutral & reasonably related to legitimate purpose test?
It's a little strange..... So what about commercial speech in public forum?

First determine if its speech (expressive conduct, etc)

Then if speech, determine if its protected speech. E.g. false commercial speech is not protected, neither is fighting words, etc. Unprotected speech can be banned or regulated at will.

Then, determine the applicable standard for the forum and analyze.

Even if it passes that standard, it can still be invalid if overbroad, vague, prior restraint, etc.

So what about the protected speech with its own test? e.g. truthful commercial speech? (which already said its standard is intermediate scrutiny)

[Joe Quincy]

I don't understand the free speech part. What's the relation of standard for non-public/public forums and the standard for commercial speech, symbol conduct, etc?
Con Law Set 5 Q 12 involves a commercial speech in non-public forums and the answer says the standard regarding non-public forum prevails. Is that every time we have a question regarding speech in non-public forums we can ignore other test and just apply the viewpoint neutral & reasonably related to legitimate purpose test?
It's a little strange..... So what about commercial speech in public forum?

First determine if its speech (expressive conduct, etc)

Then if speech, determine if its protected speech. E.g. false commercial speech is not protected, neither is fighting words, etc. Unprotected speech can be banned or regulated at will.

Then, determine the applicable standard for the forum and analyze.

Even if it passes that standard, it can still be invalid if overbroad, vague, prior restraint, etc.

So what about the protected speech with its own test? e.g. truthful commercial speech? (which already said its standard is intermediate scrutiny)

That is a test for protected/unprotected. Basically, the Court has said that not all truthful commercial speech is protected and the state can chip away at that definition some if survives intermediate scrutiny. E.g. regulations on alcohol advertisements or cigarette ads.

Commercial speech is the weird one because it doesn't receive full 1A protection and the Court has not always been clear in how it is treated. In reality this allows a general content-based restriction on certain commercial speech that isn't subject to strict scrutiny.

But if the state doesn't have an important gov interest to regulate the type of commercial speech altogether (so protected), they cannot make general content-based restrictions unless they survive strict scrutiny. E.g. no ads for junk food during lunch time.

[ben bernanke]

What level of competence is required to pass the CA essay topics (both MBE and non-MBE)?

I know that BarBri grading does not accurately reflect the grading scale/standards for these essays.... but what is really needed for a passing essay? How bad does an essay have to be to get below a 60?

Also, what about the California PT's? Is it reasonable for a competent legal writer to expect to consistently bang out 70+ on these?

[daphne]

I don't understand the free speech part. What's the relation of standard for non-public/public forums and the standard for commercial speech, symbol conduct, etc?
Con Law Set 5 Q 12 involves a commercial speech in non-public forums and the answer says the standard regarding non-public forum prevails. Is that every time we have a question regarding speech in non-public forums we can ignore other test and just apply the viewpoint neutral & reasonably related to legitimate purpose test?
It's a little strange..... So what about commercial speech in public forum?

First determine if its speech (expressive conduct, etc)

Then if speech, determine if its protected speech. E.g. false commercial speech is not protected, neither is fighting words, etc. Unprotected speech can be banned or regulated at will.

Then, determine the applicable standard for the forum and analyze.

Even if it passes that standard, it can still be invalid if overbroad, vague, prior restraint, etc.

So what about the protected speech with its own test? e.g. truthful commercial speech? (which already said its standard is intermediate scrutiny)

That is a test for protected/unprotected. Basically, the Court has said that not all truthful commercial speech is protected and the state can chip away at that definition some if survives intermediate scrutiny. E.g. regulations on alcohol advertisements or cigarette ads.

Commercial speech is the weird one because it doesn't receive full 1A protection and the Court has not always been clear in how it is treated. In reality this allows a general content-based restriction on certain commercial speech that isn't subject to strict scrutiny.

But if the state doesn't have an important gov interest to regulate the type of commercial speech altogether (so protected), they cannot make general content-based restrictions unless they survive strict scrutiny. E.g. no ads for junk food during lunch time.

Thank you so much for your kind explanation but I'm still confused......
The example is the billboards on the sides of all government buildings. The two potential right answer is in a suit against the city, the plaintiff will "win, because restrictions on commercial speech must be narrowly tailored to serve a substantial government interest directly advanced by the restrictions" or "lose, because the restriction is viewpoint neutral and reasonably related to a legitimate government purpose"
(I omit other facts because I think they are irrelevant and here is just to pick up the right test.)
The answer is the later one, so how about a billboard on public forum? Shall we use the intermediate test or the "time,manner,place" test?

[nevdash]

Thank you so much for your kind explanation but I'm still confused......
The example is the billboards on the sides of all government buildings. The two potential right answer is in a suit against the city, the plaintiff will "win, because restrictions on commercial speech must be narrowly tailored to serve a substantial government interest directly advanced by the restrictions" or "lose, because the restriction is viewpoint neutral and reasonably related to a legitimate government purpose"
(I omit other facts because I think they are irrelevant and here is just to pick up the right test.)
The answer is the later one, so how about a billboard on public forum? Shall we use the intermediate test or the "time,manner,place" test?

Please don't take this as definitive, because I struggled with Con Law and I'm more looking to explain my understanding of it so that others can chime in if I'm wrong.

I think that the specific rules regarding commercial speech only apply to regulating the content of what is being said. All of the stuff about public/designated public/limited public/non-public forums has to do with regulating where stuff can be said. So I think you have to analyze whether the question is asking about a regulation on what the commercial speech is saying (is it banning certain deceptive tactics, regardless of where the speech is presented?) or is it regulating where the commercial speech can be placed (is it banning all commercial speech, regardless of what the speech says, in a certain location? note that they can only do this in limited public and non-public forums since regulation in public/designated public forums has to be subject matter neutral). If it's the former, apply the specific commercial speech rules. If it's the latter, apply the places-available-for-speech rules.

[anonymcoffee]

checking in everyone (and things are not going well...)

I was wondering if anyone had shorter versions of the Texas Barbri outlines - I'm thinking 5 or 7 pages with the major issues/elements/etc. I started outlining based on the class outlines, but I can't seem to condense and outlines are still over 25 pages. ....help...my email is lawschool123@yahoo.com

[rnf1292]

My second simulated exam is next week. There's no way I'm ready for it, and the thought of losing a whole day to a practice exam horrifies me thinking of skipping and just doing the exam on my own so I can get it done quicker. But then barbri makes me feel like if I don't do it their way I am doomed to fail

[daphne]

Thank you so much for your kind explanation but I'm still confused......
The example is the billboards on the sides of all government buildings. The two potential right answer is in a suit against the city, the plaintiff will "win, because restrictions on commercial speech must be narrowly tailored to serve a substantial government interest directly advanced by the restrictions" or "lose, because the restriction is viewpoint neutral and reasonably related to a legitimate government purpose"
(I omit other facts because I think they are irrelevant and here is just to pick up the right test.)
The answer is the later one, so how about a billboard on public forum? Shall we use the intermediate test or the "time,manner,place" test?

Please don't take this as definitive, because I struggled with Con Law and I'm more looking to explain my understanding of it so that others can chime in if I'm wrong.

I think that the specific rules regarding commercial speech only apply to regulating the content of what is being said. All of the stuff about public/designated public/limited public/non-public forums has to do with regulating where stuff can be said. So I think you have to analyze whether the question is asking about a regulation on what the commercial speech is saying (is it banning certain deceptive tactics, regardless of where the speech is presented?) or is it regulating where the commercial speech can be placed (is it banning all commercial speech, regardless of what the speech says, in a certain location? note that they can only do this in limited public and non-public forums since regulation in public/designated public forums has to be subject matter neutral). If it's the former, apply the specific commercial speech rules. If it's the latter, apply the places-available-for-speech rules.

Struggling with free speech.......
Let me type more about Q12. The city ordinance provided that any advertiser could rent the space, provided that the activity or product advertised was legal and had "nothing to do with religion or politics" because the city sought to "avoid controversy."
It seems the content/place distinction cannot explain the answer because this is wholly about the content of the advertisement.. Actually that's why I choose intermediate scrutiny but got it wrong.

[daphne]

By the way, tomorrow is NY simulate 1/2 Day, three hours at home. But actually I don't what we should do for this 1/2 day? is that just do the homework task in paced program?

[Matteliszt]

By the way, tomorrow is NY simulate 1/2 Day, three hours at home. But actually I don't what we should do for this 1/2 day? is that just do the homework task in paced program?

There's a packet consisting of 2 essays listed under "BARBRI SIMULATED 1/2 DAY NY LOCAL EXAM" on the right hand side of the Enrolled Student Center. These take 40 minutes each. Then there is an MPT from the MPT book. There are directions in the packet of materials with the 2 essays.

[MBZags]

Real Property is going to destroy me.

[kaiser]

Real Property is going to destroy me.

I studied the lecture outlines, made flashcards, can recite lots of the material from memory, and still get pretty much raped by the practice sets.

[wiseowl]

For VA bar folks, is there any reason to watch O'Brien's Wills lectures? He has filled in the entire outline, and he is basically just slowly reading from it verbatim.

Virginia doesn't like to test wills - they LOVE IT. Might mean it won't be so heavy this year, might not.

[daphne]

By the way, tomorrow is NY simulate 1/2 Day, three hours at home. But actually I don't what we should do for this 1/2 day? is that just do the homework task in paced program?

There's a packet consisting of 2 essays listed under "BARBRI SIMULATED 1/2 DAY NY LOCAL EXAM" on the right hand side of the Enrolled Student Center. These take 40 minutes each. Then there is an MPT from the MPT book. There are directions in the packet of materials with the 2 essays.

Thanks!

[neimanmarxist]

Panic is setting in after this half-day practice test.

[bgdddymtty]

Struggling with free speech.......
Let me type more about Q12. The city ordinance provided that any advertiser could rent the space, provided that the activity or product advertised was legal and had "nothing to do with religion or politics" because the city sought to "avoid controversy."
It seems the content/place distinction cannot explain the answer because this is wholly about the content of the advertisement.. Actually that's why I choose intermediate scrutiny but got it wrong.

The bottom line on this one is that there is a SCOTUS case on point. I don't have it in front of me, and the Barbri questions are bad about mentioning that (as opposed to the Multistate Edge questions, which usually do; weird, since Barbri owns MSE). The basic idea is that if the government is renting out space for commercial advertising, that's most definitely not a public forum, and the government has quite a bit of freedom on what categories of advertising it will accept/reject. This isn't much different in principle from other content-based time/place/manner regulations.

[camstant]

Studying for NY. How far along are people on the memorization front? A little scared after the NY 1/2 day simulated.

[MBZags]

Thoughts on the NY multiple choice practice questions?

[5ky]

Thoughts on the NY multiple choice practice questions?

i didn't do the crim ones because i haven't memorized it yet. i got a little under 60% for the rest, which is about average on test day

[Joe Quincy]

Can someone good with wills explain this to me? On one page of the handout, the hypo has the creation of a trust fail because legal title must be fully conveyed and the guy didn't yet own the property he was trying to place in trust. But then on another, he says you can have an unfunded revocable trust and pour over assets at death.

[Foosters Galore]

What level of competence is required to pass the CA essay topics (both MBE and non-MBE)?

I know that BarBri grading does not accurately reflect the grading scale/standards for these essays.... but what is really needed for a passing essay? How bad does an essay have to be to get below a 60?

Also, what about the California PT's? Is it reasonable for a competent legal writer to expect to consistently bang out 70+ on these?

I gave in and bought a $70 membership to baressays . com for this reason. I had know idea what an average or poor essay looked like. To my surprise, a 60 and even a 55 were not nearly as bad as I thought they would be. They pretty much spotted most, if not all, of the issues and seemed to spitting out BLL without a problem. Analysis was weak however. I keep hearing these stories about people who say "Yeah, I couldn't remember a lot of the law so I just started making law up that sounded reasonable and applying facts to that law - and I passed!"

Not sure how that works, but whatever.

[tfer2222]

Thoughts on the NY multiple choice practice questions?

i didn't do the crim ones because i haven't memorized it yet. i got a little under 60% for the rest, which is about average on test day

I didn't think they were too bad. There were usually two answer choices that were easily eliminated.

I averaged a 70%-ish, but i used my notes a few times.

[BlameTrain]

Studying for NY. How far along are people on the memorization front? A little scared after the NY 1/2 day simulated.

I have been trying to memorize all along in addition to understanding things conceptually. I memorize slow and there's no way I'd be able to cram all of that information into two weeks before the exam.