drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

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cinephile
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby cinephile » Fri May 24, 2013 8:10 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
smallpotatosmall wrote:No, I copied the part of a case, which means if there are citations in that case, I have those citations, if there isn't, they no. I have a lot of citations on that page. I think this is fine, since it works for the last semester, and whey I submitted it as the first draft, nobody pointed to me I was wrong.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what this means.


I don't really understand either, but I think what you're saying is that first semester your school was really lax about citations because they wanted you to get into the groove of things. But they shouldn't have done that because it built bad habits and now that you have to cite, you forget to do it.

In response to your question, if I were in your situation I'd drop out and stay out of law school. The grades this semester are already bringing you down enough that you likely won't have a positive outcome from law school. And the stigma of plagiarism doesn't help.

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I.P. Daly
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby I.P. Daly » Fri May 24, 2013 8:40 pm

OP, how many words did you cite without attribution?

Did you actually take an entire page of text and copy/paste it verbatim without changing a single word/tailoring it to your specific assignment?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 24, 2013 8:54 pm

mr.hands wrote:(Also, as if this weren't a flame, copying everything including case citations is worse than just taking the text of the opinion. It suggests that you came up with those ideas yourself and cited those authorities on your own, based on *your* research and bluebooking. Even if English isn't your first language, I can't imagine any academic culture/atmosphere/scenario in which that would be ok.)

No, actually, there are non-US academic cultures where this kind of thing is acceptable. Standards for plagiarism are actually very culturally specific.

smallpotatosmall
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby smallpotatosmall » Fri May 24, 2013 9:08 pm

I.P. Daly wrote:OP, how many words did you cite without attribution?

Did you actually take an entire page of text and copy/paste it verbatim without changing a single word/tailoring it to your specific assignment?


w/o changing a single word. Is there any difference? Before I thought I was "honest" w/copying a case (or not say copying, for I thought these are not opinions, but set rules, any how, no need to defend myself now), not paraphrasing with the intention to make the words sound like mine.

I guess this would let you guys be more inclined to not believe me. However, that is what I thought before, otherwise even myself cannot believe that I could be so stupid to do such outrageous things.

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Joe Quincy
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby Joe Quincy » Fri May 24, 2013 9:13 pm

smallpotatosmall wrote:
w/o changing a single word. Is there any difference? Before I thought I was "honest" w/copying a case (or not say copying, for I thought these are not opinions, but set rules, any how, no need to defend myself now), not paraphrasing with the intention to make the words sound like mine.

I guess this would let you guys be more inclined to not believe me. However, that is what I thought before, otherwise even myself cannot believe that I could be so stupid to do such outrageous things.


It sounds like you weren't getting a great legal education anyhow. Because citing the rules has way more import than just not plagiarizing. It's supporting the authority of the precedent you're relying on.

And for the record, copying outright and using as your own is far worse than paraphrasing. At least with paraphrasing you can argue you were trying to make it your own. It can be a fine line sometimes. But copying is copying.

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I.P. Daly
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby I.P. Daly » Fri May 24, 2013 9:50 pm

Not doubting your story, just curious about the circumstances. Did any of your other classmates have difficulty with the citation rules/Blue Book?

smallpotatosmall
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby smallpotatosmall » Fri May 24, 2013 9:54 pm

I.P. Daly wrote:Not doubting your story, just curious about the circumstances. Did any of your other classmates have difficulty with the citation rules/Blue Book?


The professor told us that we cannot discuss with each other, so I never asked anybody else about it. As I said before, I cannot recognize the fine line b/t asking whether they have the same problem and discussing my brief.

My writing is bad, but I am work on that. It just takes time.

smallpotatosmall
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby smallpotatosmall » Fri May 24, 2013 9:55 pm

Joe Quincy wrote:
smallpotatosmall wrote:
w/o changing a single word. Is there any difference? Before I thought I was "honest" w/copying a case (or not say copying, for I thought these are not opinions, but set rules, any how, no need to defend myself now), not paraphrasing with the intention to make the words sound like mine.

I guess this would let you guys be more inclined to not believe me. However, that is what I thought before, otherwise even myself cannot believe that I could be so stupid to do such outrageous things.


It sounds like you weren't getting a great legal education anyhow. Because citing the rules has way more import than just not plagiarizing. It's supporting the authority of the precedent you're relying on.

And for the record, copying outright and using as your own is far worse than paraphrasing. At least with paraphrasing you can argue you were trying to make it your own. It can be a fine line sometimes. But copying is copying.



yeah, now you really sound like my school's dean.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Fri May 24, 2013 11:49 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

ClubberLang
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby ClubberLang » Sat May 25, 2013 7:34 am

Joe Quincy wrote:
NanaP wrote:
Joe Quincy wrote:
NanaP wrote:

No where do I say anything about OP's intelligence. I said his lack of English skills would affect his career as it is affecting his grades. Lack of English skills ≠ intelligence.


Good thing for you.

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mehiguess
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby mehiguess » Sat May 25, 2013 8:32 am

Flame. OP keeps dodging question of whether or not English was his first language.
Last edited by mehiguess on Sat May 25, 2013 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat May 25, 2013 9:18 am

mehiguess wrote:Flame. OP keeps dodging question of whether or not English was his first language or not.

Look, just because people don't want to put identifying information on this forum doesn't make them a flame.

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I.P. Daly
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby I.P. Daly » Sat May 25, 2013 9:35 am

OP, could you provide a sample of the alleged plagiarized material?

Did you include the West/Lexis notations in your brief?

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mehiguess
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby mehiguess » Sat May 25, 2013 9:49 am

Well if that's not the case, you don't agree that if in fact English was not his first it could help explain his predicament? Just trying to give OP the benefit of the doubt.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat May 25, 2013 11:22 am

mehiguess wrote:Well if that's not the case, you don't agree that if in fact English was not his first it could help explain his predicament? Just trying to give OP the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, I agree, but presumably the OP still doesn't have to share info they're uncomfortable with sharing. I mean, if you think it might be that English isn't their first language, you can comment on that ground without it being confirmed or not.

(Imagine this said in a mild tone, in case it's coming across as confrontational, which is not how I mean it.)

smallpotatosmall
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby smallpotatosmall » Sat May 25, 2013 1:27 pm

many of you may think what I have done is unreal or unbelievable. However, I cannot provide more information. people can easily piece together information and figure out who I am.

After these two days, I find out I cannot focus onto anything at this time. I don't know how to pass from this situation. I cannot recover from this stigma, if this is with me.

Thanks for all of your posts and opinions.

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sublime
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby sublime » Sat May 25, 2013 1:35 pm

..

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cinephile
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby cinephile » Sat May 25, 2013 2:29 pm

smallpotatosmall wrote:many of you may think what I have done is unreal or unbelievable. However, I cannot provide more information. people can easily piece together information and figure out who I am.

After these two days, I find out I cannot focus onto anything at this time. I don't know how to pass from this situation. I cannot recover from this stigma, if this is with me.

Thanks for all of your posts and opinions.


It really isn't the end of the world. People drop out of law school all the time for numerous reasons. Just work at whatever you summer job is now, but meanwhile spend some time applying for full-time, permanent non-legal jobs. When you get one, take it and embark on a new career. Never look back.

rcranesnz
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby rcranesnz » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:09 am

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Silverback
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Re: drop put and re-apply? or hanging on and more debt?

Postby Silverback » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:34 pm

cinephile wrote:
smallpotatosmall wrote:many of you may think what I have done is unreal or unbelievable. However, I cannot provide more information. people can easily piece together information and figure out who I am.

After these two days, I find out I cannot focus onto anything at this time. I don't know how to pass from this situation. I cannot recover from this stigma, if this is with me.

Thanks for all of your posts and opinions.


It really isn't the end of the world. People drop out of law school all the time for numerous reasons. Just work at whatever you summer job is now, but meanwhile spend some time applying for full-time, permanent non-legal jobs. When you get one, take it and embark on a new career. Never look back.


This is good advice if you choose not to go on with law school. In the past, attorneys have had a reputation of obtaining high salary jobs automatically after graduation from law school. With this economy, a six figure job is harder and harder to come by directly out of law school. Considering the loan debt many new graduates have to deal with, being a lawyer in this age isn't always the best economical maneuver, where someone who practices a sought after trade may end up doing just as well as an attorney in the long run. I believe there is a book out there called "real millionaires" or something to that effect, which describes people with unsuspecting careers that are millionaires due to their ability to carefully manage their finances.

If I could can give any advice to someone looking to pursue law school, do not do it for the money. Even if you end up in a job that pays extremely well, you probably won't have the free time to fully enjoy such a salary. However, I can see that this is discouraging if you had a dream of becoming an attorney. Also, don't make the mistake of thinking you are a bad person because of this event. It is simply something that is unfortunate.




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