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rad lulz
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:16 am

Thanks a bunch

I appreciate the advice

NYstate
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby NYstate » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:17 am

Someone in my firm failed twice so he was fired. They give you one fail, that is it. Almost everyone passes so you don't want to be the one person who doesn't. The firm sends out an announcement of who passed and you want to be on that list. Failing isn't the end of your career but it is definitely embarrassing.

My advice is to study as hard for this as you would the LSAT. It may be overkill, but it is better to be extremely prepared as opposed to underprepared.

I focused on the multistate hard and took a weekend class that focused on the multistage in addition to the regular barbri course. I was told multiple times that the bar examiners deny it, but if you do well on the multistate your essays are not graded as closely. They separate essays to grade into groups based on multistage score. I am not a grader but this makes sense to me.

I think that anyone who prepared well for the LSAT will know how to avoid the tricks of answering multiple choice questions.

rad lulz
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:23 am

Yeah MPRE seems like a skill just like LSAT is a skill

fallingup
Posts: 481
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby fallingup » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:24 am

I know someone who failed it twice despite being in a bar review course. Graduated from MVPB and had an offer from a V100. The firm kept the person on in a role that didn't require bar passage. When the person finally passed, the person was moved to a regular position.

Myself
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:36 pm

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Postby Myself » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:33 am

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hiima3L
Posts: 835
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby hiima3L » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:30 pm

NYstate wrote:My advice is to study as hard for this as you would the LSAT. It may be overkill, but it is better to be extremely prepared as opposed to underprepared.

I think that anyone who prepared well for the LSAT will know how to avoid the tricks of answering multiple choice questions.


One thing I kept in mind at all times was pass/fail. You have to keep that perspective or else you'll be discouraged. I constantly reminded myself of how low the bar is to pass. Getting 70-75% on the MBE is almost an autopass in CA, so whenever I hit the ~70% on the MBE sets, I felt fine. By the end I was hitting 80-90%.

Also, though I know some people will disagree, I strongly recommend not wasting your time on actually writing out essay answers. Go over them thoroughly multiple times, make thorough outlines, write out rule statements and so on, but don't waste time on physically writing them out. As long as you've structured them and know how to analyze them, and go back and see what you missed and absorb the rule, that is plenty. Relatedly, I would strongly recommend typing out rule statements over and over until you can recite them without thinking about it.

thelawdoctor
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:22 pm

NYstate wrote:Someone in my firm failed twice so he was fired. They give you one fail, that is it. Almost everyone passes so you don't want to be the one person who doesn't. The firm sends out an announcement of who passed and you want to be on that list. Failing isn't the end of your career but it is definitely embarrassing.

My advice is to study as hard for this as you would the LSAT. It may be overkill, but it is better to be extremely prepared as opposed to underprepared.

I focused on the multistate hard and took a weekend class that focused on the multistage in addition to the regular barbri course. I was told multiple times that the bar examiners deny it, but if you do well on the multistate your essays are not graded as closely. They separate essays to grade into groups based on multistage score. I am not a grader but this makes sense to me.

I think that anyone who prepared well for the LSAT will know how to avoid the tricks of answering multiple choice questions.


I am amazed that firms still hire without first being a licensed lawyer now days (many don't)

thelawdoctor
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:24 pm

rad lulz wrote:Yeah MPRE seems like a skill just like LSAT is a skill


Honestly it was blow off easy. I think it is an example of "throw some money at it" mentality when it comes to immorality in the legal field.

The passport photo alone makes no sense since you have to show photo ID to compare it to (if you could fake a photo ID I bet you could find a way to pay $3 at CVC for a fucking photo of yourself too)

Plus it's just like a 2nd test for PR but easier. I agree, it's just a way to make money.

thelawdoctor
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:26 pm

hiima3L wrote:
NYstate wrote:My advice is to study as hard for this as you would the LSAT. It may be overkill, but it is better to be extremely prepared as opposed to underprepared.

I think that anyone who prepared well for the LSAT will know how to avoid the tricks of answering multiple choice questions.


One thing I kept in mind at all times was pass/fail. You have to keep that perspective or else you'll be discouraged. I constantly reminded myself of how low the bar is to pass. Getting 70-75% on the MBE is almost an autopass in CA, so whenever I hit the ~70% on the MBE sets, I felt fine. By the end I was hitting 80-90%.

Also, though I know some people will disagree, I strongly recommend not wasting your time on actually writing out essay answers. Go over them thoroughly multiple times, make thorough outlines, write out rule statements and so on, but don't waste time on physically writing them out. As long as you've structured them and know how to analyze them, and go back and see what you missed and absorb the rule, that is plenty. Relatedly, I would strongly recommend typing out rule statements over and over until you can recite them without thinking about it.

I have found that if I am "ok" with a 70 I tend to get a 60 but if I tell myself I NEED a 100 I tend to get around an 80 or higher.
Mentality matters for me anyways, maybe not for everyone, but for sure for me.

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usuaggie
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby usuaggie » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:02 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Yeah MPRE seems like a skill just like LSAT is a skill


Honestly it was blow off easy. I think it is an example of "throw some money at it" mentality when it comes to immorality in the legal field.

The passport photo alone makes no sense since you have to show photo ID to compare it to (if you could fake a photo ID I bet you could find a way to pay $3 at CVC for a fucking photo of yourself too)

Plus it's just like a 2nd test for PR but easier. I agree, it's just a way to make money.


I think the passport photo is for them to keep so they can show it to proctors if an issue comes up and say which of these guys did you see cheating? Then they can look through those photos. Only reasonable explanation to me.

thelawdoctor
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:10 pm

usuaggie wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Yeah MPRE seems like a skill just like LSAT is a skill


Honestly it was blow off easy. I think it is an example of "throw some money at it" mentality when it comes to immorality in the legal field.

The passport photo alone makes no sense since you have to show photo ID to compare it to (if you could fake a photo ID I bet you could find a way to pay $3 at CVC for a fucking photo of yourself too)

Plus it's just like a 2nd test for PR but easier. I agree, it's just a way to make money.


I think the passport photo is for them to keep so they can show it to proctors if an issue comes up and say which of these guys did you see cheating? Then they can look through those photos. Only reasonable explanation to me.

It just struck me as odd that they didn't require for the lsat if it was so important, even though lsat fingerprinted my ass.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:30 pm

Shit I mean MBE is a skill like LSAT is a skill

Phone autocorrect

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby NYstate » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:35 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
NYstate wrote:Someone in my firm failed twice so he was fired. They give you one fail, that is it. Almost everyone passes so you don't want to be the one person who doesn't. The firm sends out an announcement of who passed and you want to be on that list. Failing isn't the end of your career but it is definitely embarrassing.

My advice is to study as hard for this as you would the LSAT. It may be overkill, but it is better to be extremely prepared as opposed to underprepared.

I focused on the multistate hard and took a weekend class that focused on the multistage in addition to the regular barbri course. I was told multiple times that the bar examiners deny it, but if you do well on the multistate your essays are not graded as closely. They separate essays to grade into groups based on multistage score. I am not a grader but this makes sense to me.

I think that anyone who prepared well for the LSAT will know how to avoid the tricks of answering multiple choice questions.


You keep saying "multistage."


Lol at my phone- sorry.

thelawdoctor
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:40 pm

rad lulz wrote:Shit I mean MBE is a skill like LSAT is a skill

Phone autocorrect


The MBE?

What's wrong with that?

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:41 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Shit I mean MBE is a skill like LSAT is a skill

Phone autocorrect


The MBE?

What's wrong with that?

I said "MPRE" above

thelawdoctor
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:44 pm

rad lulz wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Shit I mean MBE is a skill like LSAT is a skill

Phone autocorrect


The MBE?

What's wrong with that?

I said "MPRE" above


ok, brain turned back on. never mind.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby NYstate » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:33 pm

rad lulz wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Shit I mean MBE is a skill like LSAT is a skill

Phone autocorrect


The MBE?

What's wrong with that?

I said "MPRE" above


It is substantive so there is a huge difference from the LSAT. But you will be able to eliminate wrong or tricky answers quickly which will make it easier. Also, you won't have a time management issue. If those skills are rusty, they will return quickly as you practice. I think anyone who has done well on the LSAT can do well on the MBE if they study diligently.

I only did some practice essays. But the essays are so much easier than law school and are the basic IRAC form, with analysis as minimal as possible. They are testing the black- letter law knowledge, not intricate arguments and counter arguments. I felt like my essay answers could have been written by a high school kid, just very short, simple sentences.

I think the pass-fail idea is crucial too. You aren't in the mindset of trying to get every bit of every issue on down- hit the main points, know the elements, etc. and move on. You aren't trying to find the edge that means you get an A on a curve, you just need to show you know the law. And if you leave something out or forget an element , it won't fail you. You don't need beyond perfection to pass the bar.

I wouldn't try cramming either. Maybe some people can cram and do well, but relying on cramming is just setting yourself up to fail.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:38 pm

I agree on the lsat being more of an ability test and the mbe being an actual trade specific exam.

I took the lsat twice. I took it cold the first time, and studied the second time.

I did better the first time. (same thing happened when I took the asvab back in the day)

-My family asked me if I would try the same thing with the bar since I "have a trend of doing better cold"....................I told them no.

09042014
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:40 pm

Standardize test ability is pretty consistent, no matter what test it is. I bet some law nerd wrote an article about it.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Anyone fail or know someone who failed the bar?

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Standardize test ability is pretty consistent, no matter what test it is. I bet some law nerd wrote an article about it.


Perhaps, but my point was more that the lsat (like the asvab) was more of a general "can you wipe yourself without help" type test and the bar seems more of a "did you sleep for 3 years" exam.




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