Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

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BCLS
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Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby BCLS » Sat May 18, 2013 5:43 pm

Hi Guys,

question for those of you who took a course-- a lot of people suggest not only reviewing BarBri's outlines (obviously), but also creating a personal, simplified outline for reference. Does anyone know if BarBri recommends this or whether this is on the whole useful? Thanks!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat May 18, 2013 6:20 pm

I did make outlines, and they were what I studied from; the main Barbri outlines are too massive and unwieldy - you can't possibly learn them all. I suppose you could just use the Conviser, but I found it more helpful to make my own. I honestly don't remember anything about the process (the only reason I know I made outlines is because they're still on my computer), but I think they were my notes from the Barbri lectures. I know you follow along with the outline and fill in the blanks in the outline they give you, but I'm pretty sure I took notes in outline form during the lectures and studied from those.

BCLS
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby BCLS » Sat May 18, 2013 7:18 pm

Thanks!! Good to know

ChrisBARBRI
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby ChrisBARBRI » Tue May 21, 2013 4:26 pm

Hi! This is Chris Nikitas, Academic Attorney for BARBRI. Just based on the amount of time you have to study for the bar, BARBRI doesn't generally advise making your own outlines. It's too time consuming to make the work involved worth it. For a more concise version of the outlines, I'd go after the Conviser Mini Review, or even the Handout book. These are going to provide you with a good overview without going into the detail of the outline volume.

Dman
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby Dman » Tue May 21, 2013 11:52 pm

Depends on what works for you. For me outlining is how I study, and creating my own helped reinforce the material. Also Barbri has consistency problems, you will find that lecture material does not always align with Conviser. The essay book also provides an outline that often emphasizes different material from both lectures and Conviser. Moreover, Barbri prep material does have errors (especially model essay answers). I found all this maddening and frustrating since this is not their first rodeo.

I personally ended up outlining from all the outlines. This enabled me to close my universe of material and limit my review to my own outlines. Reviewing 30 pages per subject was not a possible goal for me, so I was thankful I created comprehensive 5 page outlines of each subject with rule statements to have ready for July. As the Academic attorney mentioned above, this did take a lot of time.


Good luck!

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Thu May 23, 2013 11:22 am

No, if you have time to make your own outline, you are wasting time you SHOULD be doing practice multiple choice questions. This is the one time where relying exclusively on someone else's outline is OK. If you outline yourself, you will inevitably focus on crap that doesn't matter.

SIMPLIFY IS THE NAME OF THE BAR EXAM STUDY GAME. BarBri knows what they are doing, they study this shit, the frequency topics are tested, what you need to know and what you don't. Follow the program and you will pass.

It's like this:

1) Watch lecture, fill in lecture outline as you go (people above seem to say they made their own - WHY???? THAT PROFESSOR MADE A FILL IN THE BLANK OUTLINE WITH EVERYTHING YOU NEED AND WHICH EXCLUDES EVERYTHING YOU DON'T - USE IT).

2) Immediately do practice multiple choice problems.

3) Use BarBri thingy where it analyzes your answers, tells you what you did right and where you need to improve.

3.5) ACTUALLY REVIEW BARBRI ANALYSIS OF EXAM ANSWERS. READ THEIR EXPLANATION OF WHY THE ANSWER YOU CHOSE WAS WRONG, AND WHY THE RIGHT ANSWER WAS RIGHT. THIS RIGHT HERE IS EVERYTHING. You will learn the most by critically examining your answers and understanding why your instinctive answer was wrong. This will change your instincts. You will do better next time you see a similar question.

4) Review handout AND THEN Conviser outline if you still aren't getting it on that specific topic.

5) Practice problems again.

6) BarBri thingy again - did you improve your score? Good enough? If not, MAYBE crack the massive outline book for ONLY that little topic you aren't getting.

And of course, the Big Outline is not for reading, but only for reference.

Just remember - the goal isn't to know everything, just enough to pass. GOOD LUCK.

BCLS
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby BCLS » Thu May 23, 2013 11:54 am

NotMyRealName09 wrote:No, if you have time to make your own outline, you are wasting time you SHOULD be doing practice multiple choice questions. This is the one time where relying exclusively on someone else's outline is OK. If you outline yourself, you will inevitably focus on crap that doesn't matter.

SIMPLIFY IS THE NAME OF THE BAR EXAM STUDY GAME. BarBri knows what they are doing, they study this shit, the frequency topics are tested, what you need to know and what you don't. Follow the program and you will pass.

It's like this:

1) Watch lecture, fill in lecture outline as you go (people above seem to say they made their own - WHY???? THAT PROFESSOR MADE A FILL IN THE BLANK OUTLINE WITH EVERYTHING YOU NEED AND WHICH EXCLUDES EVERYTHING YOU DON'T - USE IT).

2) Immediately do practice multiple choice problems.

3) Use BarBri thingy where it analyzes your answers, tells you what you did right and where you need to improve.

3.5) ACTUALLY REVIEW BARBRI ANALYSIS OF EXAM ANSWERS. READ THEIR EXPLANATION OF WHY THE ANSWER YOU CHOSE WAS WRONG, AND WHY THE RIGHT ANSWER WAS RIGHT. THIS RIGHT HERE IS EVERYTHING. You will learn the most by critically examining your answers and understanding why your instinctive answer was wrong. This will change your instincts. You will do better next time you see a similar question.

4) Review handout AND THEN Conviser outline if you still aren't getting it on that specific topic.

5) Practice problems again.

6) BarBri thingy again - did you improve your score? Good enough? If not, MAYBE crack the massive outline book for ONLY that little topic you aren't getting.

And of course, the Big Outline is not for reading, but only for reference.

Just remember - the goal isn't to know everything, just enough to pass. GOOD LUCK.


I love you.

Question-right now my course starts on Thursday. I have been doing some of the AMP stuff. Before I do an AMP module, I read the entire long outline for a subject to get a good sense-- is this bad or should I just read the conviser?

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tfer2222
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby tfer2222 » Thu May 23, 2013 12:01 pm

i'd like to tag this thread.

09042014
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby 09042014 » Thu May 23, 2013 12:02 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:This is the one time where relying exclusively on someone else's outline is OK.


Nope, you can pretty much do this all of law school.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu May 23, 2013 12:08 pm

To clarify what I meant when I said I outlined:

NotMyRealName09 wrote:It's like this:

1) Watch lecture, fill in lecture outline as you go (people above seem to say they made their own - WHY???? THAT PROFESSOR MADE A FILL IN THE BLANK OUTLINE WITH EVERYTHING YOU NEED AND WHICH EXCLUDES EVERYTHING YOU DON'T - USE IT).

I filled in the blanks during class, BUT I also took notes on my computer - during class - of the lecture, in the form of an outline. I did not then have to take any extra time to transform these into an outline, because they already were in outline form. (This is what I did for law school, too.) I found it helped me to write the outline myself - during class - and study from that, rather than study from the lecture outline in the book, which I found unwieldy and badly formatted and hard to use. The outlines were what I then memorized for the actual exam. So, it's redundant in that there *is* an outline that exists already. It's not redundant in that I didn't take any out-of-class time to create it (and if I didn't take notes during the lecture I'd have fallen asleep, anyway, so it kept me focused. Filling in a few blanks was NOT enough to keep me focused).

So, I apologize if my description of outlining suggested the traditional "spend three days outlining at the end of the semester before finals" method (which I didn't do even in law school). But it was helpful for me to have the material in a format that worked for me, rather than in Barbri's format. Even in law school, I never used only a commercial outline/other student's outline for a subject - though I used them for reference - because it wasn't helpful to me unless I generated the outline (which, again, I did in my class notes). Believe me, I did all the multiple-choice practice questions, and looked at the answers, and all that jazz.

The takeaway for OP on all this should probably be: think about how you learned best in law school (and before that), and adjust Barbri so it works for you. Clearly there are a variety of ways to approach even something as regimented as the bar class.

Dman
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby Dman » Thu May 23, 2013 11:38 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:To clarify what I meant when I said I outlined:

NotMyRealName09 wrote:It's like this:

1) Watch lecture, fill in lecture outline as you go (people above seem to say they made their own - WHY???? THAT PROFESSOR MADE A FILL IN THE BLANK OUTLINE WITH EVERYTHING YOU NEED AND WHICH EXCLUDES EVERYTHING YOU DON'T - USE IT).

I filled in the blanks during class, BUT I also took notes on my computer - during class - of the lecture, in the form of an outline. I did not then have to take any extra time to transform these into an outline, because they already were in outline form. (This is what I did for law school, too.) I found it helped me to write the outline myself - during class - and study from that, rather than study from the lecture outline in the book, which I found unwieldy and badly formatted and hard to use. The outlines were what I then memorized for the actual exam. So, it's redundant in that there *is* an outline that exists already. It's not redundant in that I didn't take any out-of-class time to create it (and if I didn't take notes during the lecture I'd have fallen asleep, anyway, so it kept me focused. Filling in a few blanks was NOT enough to keep me focused).

So, I apologize if my description of outlining suggested the traditional "spend three days outlining at the end of the semester before finals" method (which I didn't do even in law school). But it was helpful for me to have the material in a format that worked for me, rather than in Barbri's format. Even in law school, I never used only a commercial outline/other student's outline for a subject - though I used them for reference - because it wasn't helpful to me unless I generated the outline (which, again, I did in my class notes). Believe me, I did all the multiple-choice practice questions, and looked at the answers, and all that jazz.

The takeaway for OP on all this should probably be: think about how you learned best in law school (and before that), and adjust Barbri so it works for you. Clearly there are a variety of ways to approach even something as regimented as the bar class.


This. I found the Barbri outlines really poorly organized and not useful for memorization during the last two week crunch, which was the point of my prior post. I used a similar process as 09 above but then spent extra time organizing my outlines to fit how I would write essays answers.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Fri May 24, 2013 1:29 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Taking BarBri-- Create outline as well?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 24, 2013 1:29 am

ajax adonis wrote:I'm making flash cards, but I'm not making my own outline. I would not sleep. I can't see someone making their whole outline either, but that's just me.

Yeah, see, I hate flash cards and never use them.




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