Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

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murrrie
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Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby murrrie » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:10 am

Hi all,

I've read a few threads that touch on this but I've seen conflicting opinions and would like to hear what y'all think of my specific circumstances and whether attempting transfer is recommended.

1) I'm a 1L at USC and first semester grades put me in the top 1%. I'm contemplating attempting transfer to Y/S/H but how good are my chances? I've heard inconsistent theories on how "easy" it is to get a transfer and that some schools still really care about the LSAT and UG GPA. My LSAT was 99% but UG GPA wasn't great--3.66.

2) Is it generally true that financial aid is almost never offered to transfers? SC was really generous and I'm a local which saves a lot of money, so I'm loathe to give that up.

3) Finally, I've also heard that a big downside of transferring is that honors programs are often not an option at the transfer school. I'd really like to do a clerkship and heard that being on a journal is crucial. Is USC + law review better than, say, Yale + no honors program?

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:34 am

murrrie wrote:Hi all,

I've read a few threads that touch on this but I've seen conflicting opinions and would like to hear what y'all think of my specific circumstances and whether attempting transfer is recommended.

1) I'm a 1L at USC and first semester grades put me in the top 1%. I'm contemplating attempting transfer to Y/S/H but how good are my chances? I've heard inconsistent theories on how "easy" it is to get a transfer and that some schools still really care about the LSAT and UG GPA. My LSAT was 99% but UG GPA wasn't great--3.66.

2) Is it generally true that financial aid is almost never offered to transfers? SC was really generous and I'm a local which saves a lot of money, so I'm loathe to give that up.

3) Finally, I've also heard that a big downside of transferring is that honors programs are often not an option at the transfer school. I'd really like to do a clerkship and heard that being on a journal is crucial. Is USC + law review better than, say, Yale + no honors program?


1) YSH is always a crapshoot but being 1% at a top tier school like SC gives you as good a chance as any I'd guess.

2) Not sure about this.

3) No. I highly doubt that even CCN + law review is as good as Yale + no honors. HYS is in a pretty different tier from all the other schools. Cue Chicago students rolling in with the sound and fury.

Golden Bear 11
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby Golden Bear 11 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:46 am

Top 1% + law review: won't you be pretty competitive for 9th circuit clerkships from USC?

If you qualify for need-based aid @ HYS, losing your USC scholarship won't hurt as much

As Berkeley undergraduate = probably can articulate ties to Bay Area for S.

murrrie
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby murrrie » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:51 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
1) YSH is always a crapshoot but being 1% at a top tier school like SC gives you as good a chance as any I'd guess.

2) Not sure about this.

3) No. I highly doubt that even CCN + law review is as good as Yale + no honors. HYS is in a pretty different tier from all the other schools. Cue Chicago students rolling in with the sound and fury.


The firm I'm working at in the summer doesn't take anyone that hasn't been on law review at his/her respective school--even if it's Yale. Maybe that's skewed my impression of law review.

I turned down UChicago for SC because of the money so I feel like transferring for anything less than T3 would be stupid.

murrrie
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby murrrie » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:10 am

Golden Bear 11 wrote:Top 1% + law review: won't you be pretty competitive for 9th circuit clerkships from USC?

If you qualify for need-based aid @ HYS, losing your USC scholarship won't hurt as much

As Berkeley undergraduate = probably can articulate ties to Bay Area for S.


Yeah, but I want my cake and eat it too.

Trying to figure out how much I'd qualified for as we speak. Thanks!

Golden Bear 11
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby Golden Bear 11 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:34 am

Oh wow, you have a full ride at USC.

With a SA job, you're going to have less than $50K debt at repayment graduating from USC. With a SA at HYS, that is going to cut into your need aid.

KidStuddi
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:44 am

murrrie wrote:The firm I'm working at in the summer doesn't take anyone that hasn't been on law review at his/her respective school--even if it's Yale. Maybe that's skewed my impression of law review.

I turned down UChicago for SC because of the money so I feel like transferring for anything less than T3 would be stupid.


Out of curiosity, which firm is that? I haven't heard of any firms with a clear policy like that, stated or unstated. I've heard of only hiring former AIII clerks, but not only law review.

Anyway, people have been admitted to S and H as transfers with lower GPAs similar LSATs, so that won't eliminate you. How much it hurts is impossible to know.

IMO I would say Top 1% and LR at USC puts you in as good if not better a position than being a transfer at YS. If there's any financial reason to stay at USC, and there probably will be unless the need based aid is amazing, I wouldn't go. I'd personally say top 1%+LR at USC is definitely a better position than being a transfer at H, unless you are geographically set on only wanting to be in the northeast. H is simply too big for transfer students to have a strong shot at landing competitive clerkships. You won't have the recommendations for it and will be a serious competitive advantage against the hundreds of other home grown H students applying to every major market clerkship -- especially without a journal. Not to mention the crapshoot of only having a semester of H grades when you apply (maybe a year if judges stick to the plan, but that's becoming markedly less common). If you come up with median grades after your first semester of H, you're probably not getting an AIII clerkship. At least not for immediately after you graduate. YS are small enough where these worries are pretty diluted and medianish students can land AIII clerkships.

But again, that's only if you maintain top 1%. If you slip to just top 10% at USC, but still manage to get in, YSH become a lot more attractive. Top 1% and top 10% at a T20 are a world apart when it comes to clerkships.
Last edited by KidStuddi on Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:49 am

Didn't see the full ride thing. Yeah dude, top 1-5%, full scholly, and law review at USC is sitting pretty as hell. SC's got better employment numbers than some T14s and it's real preftigous in CA, L.A. especially.

Unless HYS give you massive need based aid, I'd stay at SC and keep those grades up to be honest.

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IAFG
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby IAFG » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:55 am

oh my god a firm with only law review nerds sounds terrible, jesus christ

with all that money and a 1L firm job though, seriously just stay put.

murrrie
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby murrrie » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:09 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
Out of curiosity, which firm is that? I haven't heard of any firms with a clear policy like that, stated or unstated. I've heard of only hiring former AIII clerks, but not only law review.

Anyway, people have been admitted to S and H as transfers with lower GPAs similar LSATs, so that won't eliminate you. How much it hurts is impossible to know.

IMO I would say Top 1% and LR at USC puts you in as good if not better a position than being a transfer at YS. If there's any financial reason to stay at USC, and there probably will be unless the need based aid is amazing, I wouldn't go. I'd personally say top 1%+LR at USC is definitely a better position than being a transfer at H, unless you are geographically set on only wanting to be in the northeast. H is simply too big for transfer students to have a strong shot at landing competitive clerkships. You won't have the recommendations for it and will be a serious competitive advantage against the hundreds of other home grown H students applying to every major market clerkship -- especially without a journal. Not to mention the crapshoot of only having a semester of H grades when you apply (maybe a year if judges stick to the plan, but that's becoming markedly less common). If you come up with median grades after your first semester of H, you're probably not getting an AIII clerkship. At least not for immediately after you graduate. YS are small enough where these worries are pretty diluted and medianish students can land AIII clerkships.

But again, that's only if you maintain top 1%. If you slip to just top 10% at USC, but still manage to get in, YSH become a lot more attractive. Top 1% and top 10% at a T20 are a world apart when it comes to clerkships.


MTO -- I don't think it's a hard and fast rule but over 80% of their attorneys have been on law reviewed AND clerked.

As for staying in the top 1%--there's no way to know if I will, right? And I won't know my second semester grades until after the deadline to apply for transfer, so I guess I'm just trying to decide if I should just give it a shot.

Ugh, decisions. Anyway, thanks for the input. Narrows things down a bit.
Last edited by murrrie on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

murrrie
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby murrrie » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:11 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Didn't see the full ride thing. Yeah dude, top 1-5%, full scholly, and law review at USC is sitting pretty as hell. SC's got better employment numbers than some T14s and it's real preftigous in CA, L.A. especially.

Unless HYS give you massive need based aid, I'd stay at SC and keep those grades up to be honest.


If only keeping my grades up was a sure thing. Con Law is destroying me.

murrrie
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Re: Pros, cons, likelihood of transfer USC -> YSH

Postby murrrie » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:12 pm

IAFG wrote:oh my god a firm with only law review nerds sounds terrible, jesus christ

with all that money and a 1L firm job though, seriously just stay put.


I know... I keep alternating between my greed and lust for prestige. Or are they the same thing? #firstworldprobs.




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