1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

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hoos89
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:29 pm

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Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ZyzzBrah
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby ZyzzBrah » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:21 pm

hoos89 wrote:
You essentially went to class twice: that is absurd. Are you going to do everything twice as an associate too? I bet the partners will love that... How about rather than just watching every class twice you figure out what you're weak in and having trouble with and go, you know...talk to the professor about it at office hours. Also, friends and sanity can come in handy in your professional life.

There is a month left. His time can be MUCH better spent outlining, doing practice exams, and going to office hours than watching recordings of classes he already went to.


What I am weak at=taking down nearly everything (I don't care what people say, law school exams are like throwing up everything you know onto a piece of paper; also teachers like hearing the same thing they think) This is simply my version of going home and redoing my notes. Also I don't get how you jump to the conclusion that what I do to study material for the purposes of an exam=what I will do as an associate (and actually biglaw partners would love that, it would mean more money).

Office hours: worthless imo unless you simply want the professor to know who you are.

Friends and sanity: using one month of your life to study does not equal giving up those two for life. Its like the time before a big trial, you think an attorney cares about how enjoyable his life is right before a big case?

You seem to assume everything i said means he should do this for life at every moment

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hoos89
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:37 pm

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odoylerulez
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby odoylerulez » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:40 pm

ZyzzBrah wrote:
hoos89 wrote:
You essentially went to class twice: that is absurd. Are you going to do everything twice as an associate too? I bet the partners will love that... How about rather than just watching every class twice you figure out what you're weak in and having trouble with and go, you know...talk to the professor about it at office hours. Also, friends and sanity can come in handy in your professional life.

There is a month left. His time can be MUCH better spent outlining, doing practice exams, and going to office hours than watching recordings of classes he already went to.


What I am weak at=taking down nearly everything (I don't care what people say, law school exams are like throwing up everything you know onto a piece of paper; also teachers like hearing the same thing they think) This is simply my version of going home and redoing my notes. Also I don't get how you jump to the conclusion that what I do to study material for the purposes of an exam=what I will do as an associate (and actually biglaw partners would love that, it would mean more money).

Office hours: worthless imo unless you simply want the professor to know who you are.

Friends and sanity: using one month of your life to study does not equal giving up those two for life. Its like the time before a big trial, you think an attorney cares about how enjoyable his life is right before a big case?

You seem to assume everything i said means he should do this for life at every moment


No, that won't work at biglaw. You're basically going to be racing through cases for 60+ hours a week, and expected to provide good work. (Though, I do agree that his analogy to the law school situation doesn't make a whole lot of sense.)

Anyway, re-watching videos.. my gut feeling is that this will be somewhat OK for some professors, and horribly inefficient for others. Get a feel for how certain professors model their exams. Some professors will love for you to regurgitate cases/analysis straight from class. Other professors, you'll take the final, and you'll feel like it covers nothing that you went over in class all semester. That's the nature of the beast.

One thing, though.. if your professor ever makes a prediction regarding the future of the law, or states his or her opinion on a subject (rare), WRITE IT DOWN. This may save you on a tricky policy question.

Otherwise, if you can't learn it from a supplement or old outline, it's probably not overly relevant.

09042014
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:42 pm

hoos89 wrote:
ZyzzBrah wrote:(1) as others have said a month is ample time, after I complete my outlines of the course I usually need about a week to really get to know it

(2) I have a general tip for you for this year and next. Does your school record classes? If so, watch them. Your notes will have everything the professor said, in their own words (which is impossible unless you are incredibly fast at typing). First year i did not do this and ended up right at the cut off for top 33%, first semester 2L I did do this and went to 15-20%. Don't say "oh i don't have enough time" because you do, its just very boring to do this.


For the next month do nothing but prepare, theres really only one thing that matters first year and thats GPA. So if your social life/sanity suffers too bad, this is more important


You essentially went to class twice: that is absurd. Are you going to do everything twice as an associate too? I bet the partners will love that... How about rather than just watching every class twice you figure out what you're weak in and having trouble with and go, you know...talk to the professor about it at office hours. Also, friends and sanity can come in handy in your professional life.

There is a month left. His time can be MUCH better spent outlining, doing practice exams, and going to office hours than watching recordings of classes he already went to.


If you bill twice as much they'd probably love that.

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hoos89
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:45 pm

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09042014
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:46 pm

clients maybe

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hoos89
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:47 pm

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09042014
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:49 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:clients maybe


Or someone with scruples. Do they exist in this field?

Also I saw a case the other day where a firm got caught churning the bill. I have a feeling that sort of thing would be a smoking gun.


He wouldn't be overbilling, he'd just be really fucking slow at doing it.

ZyzzBrah
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby ZyzzBrah » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:53 pm

if you have a depo or testimony etc.you ARE going to go through it twice (once at the actual depo and once when you get the transcript).


im not sure what you think i'd be doing twice. Attorneys will usually review things that are sort of like going to class (i.e. video testimony) twice.

In any event, hearing things twice is like outlining, Im not sure what people really think outlining is other than making sure your notes make sense. So listening to the same thing twice means the notes make more sense. Maybe I've just had teachers who simply throw info at us, but my strategy worked for me, and it worked very well

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hoos89
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:40 pm

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stillwater
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby stillwater » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:45 pm

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh who cares?

johnnystrong
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby johnnystrong » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:52 am

Who cares if "doing things twice" would be an efficient way to operate as an associate? Law school isn't about maximizing your future effectiveness as an associate. Law school exams are notoriously terrible at measuring that aptitude. The only focus should be on whether the chosen study method is the optimal way to get good grades. A month of time is plenty of time to prepare so long as you choose relatively efficient methods.

That being said, unless you missed a lot of class and/or learned almost nothing in the classes you attended I can't imagine re-listening to classes being worth it. The chances are relatively remote that you will pick up enough "new" information to make it worth it. If you have been doing anything like what you should be doing in class you should already have in your notes most of the admittedly valuable moments where a professor shares his views on an uncertain area of the law.

The memorization advice about Con. Law seems like terrible advice. At best memorizing "everything" is over-inclusive. At worst memorizing takes the focus off of correctly analyzing and applying the law. Law school exams are not about memorizing and regurgitating. In my experience, exams where I did that have been my lowest grades.

Its very difficult to give someone a "strategy" for outlining or otherwise preparing for exams because a decent part of the utility of outlining/preparing in a specific way depends on how you individually best learn. Which is a question you are best equipped to answer. That being said, I usually start around a month before and roughly follow the syllabus, filling in cases/concepts as I go along. I have never made any particular attempt to memorize the contents of my outlines, though incidental memorization certainly occurs as you work through them. My goal is usually to be "caught up" by the last class period (although its a goal I have rarely met in practice). This leaves a few days to work through practice exams.

I have found E&E's to be a tremendously valuable resource when during the outlining process. They certainly aren't necessary, they rarely contain any information that isn't accessible in the casebook, but I find them useful because they 1) streamline the information and 2) the questions tend to work through the permutations for each rule in an accessible way.

I think there are two main takeaways, one of which isn't particularly useful. 1) you have plenty of time if you start working with some urgency 2) you need to study in the way that is best for you-- this may or may not mean following the advice people have given here.

thelawdoctor
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby thelawdoctor » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:52 pm

Everyone is overthinking this way too much. Just buy the ham outlines, cram a bit, take the C and then actually show up while paying attention and taking notes next time around.

And then life goes on...............

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shepdawg
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby shepdawg » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:04 pm

The only think I do to study is create an outline. I usually put in 2 days on each one, and then I'm ready for the test.

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mephistopheles
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby mephistopheles » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:52 pm

shepdawg wrote:The only think I do to study is create an outline. I usually put in 2 days on each one, and then I'm ready for the test.



yeppppp... but throw in a practice test or two.

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3|ink
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby 3|ink » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:54 pm

It generally takes me a week to write an outline. Sigh.

09042014
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Re: 1 month to exams and haven't started outlines - help!

Postby 09042014 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:00 pm

3|ink wrote:It generally takes me a week to write an outline. Sigh.


Fear can do wondrous things.




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