Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

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Drop out?

Yes, take a leave of absence and possibly drop out.
18
38%
No, don't take a leave of absence - finish it up.
29
62%
 
Total votes: 47

Paul Campos
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:45 am

Pokemon wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:Question: Should you spend the next year doing something you hate to the point that it may well be making you clinically depressed, while investing another $75,000 (conservative estimate of direct + opportunity cost) to get a degree which will have negative value going forward for you without regard to this cost?


Try walking around with a two year hole on your resume. It does not look pretty. Also, OP has not told us what he wants to do. If his dream is flipping burgers, being a doctor, or being an engineer, then JD is useless. If his dream is let's say wealth management, then yeah, he is better off finishing his degree.


Definitely don't want to practice law. Not really interested in JD-preferred stuff (eg, financial analysis, compliance, etc). While a JD might benefit me in some way down the road, I really have no concrete idea of how.

M458
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby M458 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:48 am

northwood wrote:OP: I understand how you feel. I would finish the degree and next year to apply for jobs. Use this summer to help figure out what it is you want to do, and how you can sell your JD to get that job.

Just because you have a JD does not mean that you have to put it on your resume.


What would you say when you end up having a 3-year hole on your resume?

NYstate
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby NYstate » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:19 am

I see absolutely no reason to stay if you don't want to practice law. The only thing I can think of is if somehow your living expenses are covered. Or if you just want to be in school so you can look for other jobs, then stay.

In my opinion, it is better to get out now. When is it going to be a better time to stop law? Why finish? I honestly see no point in this.

Pokemon
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby Pokemon » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:28 am

I am also a 2L.
I absolutely hate law school and the idea of studying law. I cannot imagine doing it for the rest of my life. I really hate it.
Additionally, I am not interested in any of the JD-preferred jerbs. Financial analysis is not for me, tax is too firm-like, compliance is too law like, wealth management is too salesperson like.
Now, not only do I dislike all law jerbs, and jd-preferred jerbs, but I have also grown tired of working in general. I hate the idea of being in the office, but I also hate being a manual laborer.
So, what do you guys think, should I drop out?

SO, I am trying to joke a bit, but this is the vibe that I get from OP. What do you want to hear if you hate law and law-related stuff that much? Even if you were law review at Yale the recommendation would be to drop out if that is your attitude.

lawblows
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby lawblows » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:47 am

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lawblows
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby lawblows » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:51 am

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haus
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby haus » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:19 pm

Considering the budget reductions the Parks Service is facing I do not think Park Ranger is a valid option for much of anyone. Maybe working the graveyard shift at the gas station/convenience store near the park that is now open on a reduced schedule.

lawblows
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby lawblows » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:05 pm

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thisiswater
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby thisiswater » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:57 pm

I was where you are right now years ago in undergrad and I can tell you that unless you get real help dropping out won't solve your problems.

I thought that dropping out of school was my rock bottom but I can tell you that still being that depressed even after I quit the classes I hated and moved away from the city I hated, that was the worst moment.

Get real counseling and possibly real meds and then decide this. I made stupid bad choices while under the fog of that depression and at the time, they seemed like they were the only possible rational choice. Depression does that to you.

KidStuddi
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby KidStuddi » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:33 am

thisiswater wrote:I was where you are right now years ago in undergrad and I can tell you that unless you get real help dropping out won't solve your problems.

I thought that dropping out of school was my rock bottom but I can tell you that still being that depressed even after I quit the classes I hated and moved away from the city I hated, that was the worst moment.

Get real counseling and possibly real meds and then decide this. I made stupid bad choices while under the fog of that depression and at the time, they seemed like they were the only possible rational choice. Depression does that to you.


The DFW reference in your handle is apt for this thread, but you're assuming way too much. Nothing OP has said indicates that he needs to seek psychiatric counseling to make a decision. It's perfectly normal for OP to not be happy doing something he hates. Nothing indicates that OP's decision to drop out is the result of a change in personality. Rather, it seems pretty clear that OP has a good handle on things and just wants to talk it out with other rational people who understand the implications of the decision. Calling him crazy isn't helping.

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thisiswater
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby thisiswater » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:44 am

KidStuddi wrote:
thisiswater wrote:I was where you are right now years ago in undergrad and I can tell you that unless you get real help dropping out won't solve your problems.

I thought that dropping out of school was my rock bottom but I can tell you that still being that depressed even after I quit the classes I hated and moved away from the city I hated, that was the worst moment.

Get real counseling and possibly real meds and then decide this. I made stupid bad choices while under the fog of that depression and at the time, they seemed like they were the only possible rational choice. Depression does that to you.


The DFW reference in your handle is apt for this thread, but you're assuming way too much. Nothing OP has said indicates that he needs to seek psychiatric counseling to make a decision. It's perfectly normal for OP to not be happy doing something he hates. Nothing indicates that OP's decision to drop out is the result of a change in personality. Rather, it seems pretty clear that OP has a good handle on things and just wants to talk it out with other rational people who understand the implications of the decision. Calling him crazy isn't helping.

I didn't call him crazy. I don't consider him crazy and to be honest I think someone who would decide that depression=crazy is a shitty person. I'm guessing you're trolling and I'm falling for it but this seemed like a serious question from the op so I'm going to continue to treat it like that.

And this
Law school causing me pretty bad depression/anxiety. I suspect this is also normal for law school students? But it's getting pretty bad for me. Like I see students who've killed themselves in the news, and I can almost completely understand their state of mind and why they would do it. Just that feeling of utter disgust with one's self and a feeling of hopelessness/conviction that nothing will ever change for the better.
from the OP was what I was referring to. Depression/anxiety and thoughts of suicide are all clear signs that the OP should seek counseling before he makes any major choices.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:49 am

Was just going to post the same thing. And the thing is, whether the depression is independent from the law school circumstance or caused by the law school circumstance is irrelevant. Even if the OP is anxious/depressed because they're in a situation they hate - law school is the sole cause of the depression, which it might well be - it doesn't mean that being depressed doesn't mess with your decision-making abilities or that seeking help for the depression isn't appropriate. (Fun fact: even where depression is situational - caused by being in a legitimately crappy situation - it changes your brain; once the depression neural pathways are triggered, they become much more easily triggered, in contexts that wouldn't otherwise cause depression.)

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EvilClinton
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby EvilClinton » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:05 am

Don't drop out now. If this was the beginning of 1L I would say yes but right now it is probably better to just finish. You can check out next year (3L doesn't matter anyway) and start looking into fields you can get into after law school.

Hang in there!

RodneyRuxin
Posts: 455
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby RodneyRuxin » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:37 am

KidStuddi wrote:
thisiswater wrote:I was where you are right now years ago in undergrad and I can tell you that unless you get real help dropping out won't solve your problems.

I thought that dropping out of school was my rock bottom but I can tell you that still being that depressed even after I quit the classes I hated and moved away from the city I hated, that was the worst moment.

Get real counseling and possibly real meds and then decide this. I made stupid bad choices while under the fog of that depression and at the time, they seemed like they were the only possible rational choice. Depression does that to you.


The DFW reference in your handle is apt for this thread, but you're assuming way too much. Nothing OP has said indicates that he needs to seek psychiatric counseling to make a decision. It's perfectly normal for OP to not be happy doing something he hates. Nothing indicates that OP's decision to drop out is the result of a change in personality. Rather, it seems pretty clear that OP has a good handle on things and just wants to talk it out with other rational people who understand the implications of the decision. Calling him crazy isn't helping.


Did you seriously just jump all over this guy for sharing a sensitive experience in order to help the OP?

Who do you think you are? There's a mention of depression in the OP. Why would you be negative to someone trying to help (moreover someone giving good advice)?

lawblows
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:36 am

Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby lawblows » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:54 am

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Last edited by lawblows on Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby RodneyRuxin » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:01 am

One possible path:

Finish out the semester, talk to some (non-law school) friends, clear your head and then make the decision. If you're still not sure try to find a non-legal job over the summer while working at the job you have lined up. The result of the job search should tip the scales one way or the other.

Good luck, OP. Please post once you have it all figured out. If you need to talk to someone in the interim, feel free to PM

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:06 am

The debt is what gives me anxiety. Everything else isn't a big deal. If it wasn't for the debt, one could eventually find a job in something that isn't related to the legal field. I am hoping to keep my debt level around the $100K mark.

KidStuddi
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:35 pm

Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby KidStuddi » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:31 am

thisiswater wrote:I didn't call him crazy. I don't consider him crazy and to be honest I think someone who would decide that depression=crazy is a shitty person. I'm guessing you're trolling and I'm falling for it but this seemed like a serious question from the op so I'm going to continue to treat it like that.

And this
Law school causing me pretty bad depression/anxiety. I suspect this is also normal for law school students? But it's getting pretty bad for me. Like I see students who've killed themselves in the news, and I can almost completely understand their state of mind and why they would do it. Just that feeling of utter disgust with one's self and a feeling of hopelessness/conviction that nothing will ever change for the better.
from the OP was what I was referring to. Depression/anxiety and thoughts of suicide are all clear signs that the OP should seek counseling before he makes any major choices.


Uh, you told him that you that you could definitely tell him that dropping out won't solve his "problems," because of your magical differential diagnosis skills.

So yeah, you did call him crazy. You told him his decision making is compromised to the point where he needs professional psychological counseling and possibly psychoactive medication. You're armchair diagnosing him with a major depressive disorder. That's calling someone crazy in my book. My book is called the DSM-IV.

The second part of this is just ridiculous. Feeling anxious about writing off the last two years of your life is a warning sign of a psychological disorder now? Feeling "depressed," when realizing that you're on the wrong career path sounds diagnostically significant to you? And thoughts of suicide? Did you even read what you quoted? He said he "can almost" understand why people commit suicide. Understanding despair and hopelessness sucks and can push someone towards suicide isn't an indicator of anything but possessing modicum of intelligence and empathy. The signs in this thread point towards OP not feeling despair (the absence of all hope) as he is making plans for his future. Not to mention he's talked at great length about what he sees himself doing next.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Was just going to post the same thing. And the thing is, whether the depression is independent from the law school circumstance or caused by the law school circumstance is irrelevant. Even if the OP is anxious/depressed because they're in a situation they hate - law school is the sole cause of the depression, which it might well be - it doesn't mean that being depressed doesn't mess with your decision-making abilities or that seeking help for the depression isn't appropriate.


The source of the change in mood is critically relevant. I'm not going to break down all of the diagnostic criteria for depressive disorders, but no professional worth a shit would get more than ten minutes in without asking "What is going on in your life / What's troubling you?"

I'm not a clinician (studied/researched cognitive neuropsychology for 6 years), but you really don't need seek professional counseling every time something makes you melancholy. It's a normal part of life.

KidStuddi
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby KidStuddi » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:34 am

RodneyRuxin wrote:Did you seriously just jump all over this guy for sharing a sensitive experience in order to help the OP?

Who do you think you are? There's a mention of depression in the OP. Why would you be negative to someone trying to help (moreover someone giving good advice)?


Clearly because I don't think it's good advice? He drew from his personal experiences, I drew from my academic ones. Sorry if disagreement disturbs you. Maybe you need some medication for that, sounds like you have an anxiety disorder. Trust me, I know because my cat has one too.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:52 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Was just going to post the same thing. And the thing is, whether the depression is independent from the law school circumstance or caused by the law school circumstance is irrelevant. Even if the OP is anxious/depressed because they're in a situation they hate - law school is the sole cause of the depression, which it might well be - it doesn't mean that being depressed doesn't mess with your decision-making abilities or that seeking help for the depression isn't appropriate.


The source of the change in mood is critically relevant. I'm not going to break down all of the diagnostic criteria for depressive disorders, but no professional worth a shit would get more than ten minutes in without asking "What is going on in your life / What's troubling you?"

I'm not a clinician (studied/researched cognitive neuropsychology for 6 years), but you really don't need seek professional counseling every time something makes you melancholy. It's a normal part of life.

Of course the source of the depression is relevant to treatment. But it's not relevant to whether depression can fuck up your decision-making abilities. And likewise, of course you don't need counseling every time something makes you melancholy. But there's a huge fucking difference between melancholy and depression. The OP said he was depressed. People here responded to that. Just because you seem to think trying to decide whether to drop out/hating law school should only make you melancholic, not depressed, doesn't make it so. I mean, maybe OP isn't depressed - I'm not a clinician either. But he himself raised the issue.

Also, your comment about anxiety disorders and your cat is shitty.

Pope Francis
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby Pope Francis » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:21 am

OP: You are, by your own mission, impulsive. You didn't think through whether or not law school was the right decision for you. Thus, I view your current position with the skepticism. How are you any more correct that you have been in the past?

I also find it ironic that you are turning to TLS. TLS is why you are in law school. Please speak to a professional. It sounds like you don't want to be anything, let alone a lawyer.

lawblows
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby lawblows » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:45 pm

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Last edited by lawblows on Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.

09042014
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Re: Almost done w/ 2L Year - Drop out?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:01 pm

reasonable_man wrote:FWIW, I think you should stay.

Your third-year is going to suck way less than second year. You can take some easy courses and get by with Bs and Cs and be done with it. Especially since you don't plan to practice, your GPA means very little. I know that people say that a JD hurts you when it comes time to apply for jobs. But I think once you get into the first job (that is not JD required), it becomes easier and easier to convince people that you simply have no interest in practicing law. Further, I think explaining a 2 year resume gap and dropping out of LS is harder than saying - I really just don't want to be a lawyer and thought this degree would help - sorta like an MBA.

You are knocking at the door of graduation. 3rd year is a joke. Just roll through it and graduate and start trying to figure out what you really want to do. And stop feeling like an idiot for going down this path. History is filled with great people that had false starts.

Lastly, your JD is something that can never be taken away from you. Its a fall back. If one day you decide that you do want to try your hand at a carrer in law (or a job opportunity that interests you lists JD as "optional"), you may actually wind up being happy that you have the degree.

Good luck brah.



I'd add, maybe go find a job for 3L, and just cram for exams the week before finals, show up and take exams. If you pick classes that don't take attendance, this will work fine.




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