Barbri ...... why???

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kryptix
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby kryptix » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:19 am

Do firms reimburse a receipt for bar prep or just pay you a stipend that covers BarBri? That can be a big factor in deciding what to take...

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thesealocust
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby thesealocust » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:32 am

kryptix wrote:Do firms reimburse a receipt for bar prep or just pay you a stipend that covers BarBri? That can be a big factor in deciding what to take...


It varies. The NY big firm standard is to pay for the course, travel, etc. but several firms around the country give you a generous stipend from which you're expected to cover all bar-related expenses.

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kalvano
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby kalvano » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:13 pm

As near as I can tell, there is nothing really wrong with BarBri. Tons of people use it and pass. The main problem is that it's overpriced for what it offers, and not really worth 2.5 times what other courses cost.

If someone else is paying, go with BarBri if you want to maximize your chances. If you're paying, you won't miss much by going Themis / Kaplan.

Is that about right?

helfer snooterbagon
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:20 pm

I am thinking of picking up another state, I took THEMIS for IL but I think I will try baroutlines for KY.

09042014
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:06 pm

thesealocust wrote:You guys realize baroutlines.com is a full lecture course, right? With practice questions and outlines and stuff?

It's not like "lol rulez 4 the bar 'zam" written on a napkin or something.

Tell me more. I'm interested.

run26.2
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby run26.2 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:51 pm

kalvano wrote:As near as I can tell, there is nothing really wrong with BarBri. Tons of people use it and pass. The main problem is that it's overpriced for what it offers, and not really worth 2.5 times what other courses cost.

If someone else is paying, go with BarBri if you want to maximize your chances. If you're paying, you won't miss much by going Themis / Kaplan.

Is that about right?

I'd say that if that someone else is a large NYC law firm, I would certainly go with BarBri. If you use something else and fail, I believe your firm would be more prone to question your judgment.

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thesealocust
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby thesealocust » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:35 pm

run26.2 wrote:
kalvano wrote:As near as I can tell, there is nothing really wrong with BarBri. Tons of people use it and pass. The main problem is that it's overpriced for what it offers, and not really worth 2.5 times what other courses cost.

If someone else is paying, go with BarBri if you want to maximize your chances. If you're paying, you won't miss much by going Themis / Kaplan.

Is that about right?

I'd say that if that someone else is a large NYC law firm, I would certainly go with BarBri. If you use something else and fail, I believe your firm would be more prone to question your judgment.


Your firm doesn't exist as an entity. Literally nobody at your firm gives a crap about anything except their particular clients and job responsibilities. There is no Standing Committee on Judging the Choices of Associates.

Every year people fail the bar. After that happens, they retake the bar and usually pass. At no point do they write a letter explaining their misdeeds or sit in a confessional with Name and Ampersand LLP.

Desert Fox wrote:
thesealocust wrote:You guys realize baroutlines.com is a full lecture course, right? With practice questions and outlines and stuff?

It's not like "lol rulez 4 the bar 'zam" written on a napkin or something.

Tell me more. I'm interested.


There isn't much else to say. For NY it's 6x long MBE outlines covering all the MBE material, 1x good outline for each NY subject, a long set of audio lectures for the MBE and a long set of audio lectures for state material. The lectures are VERY fast paced, no stopping and explaining bullshit, just the laws you need to know. I think total runtime is around 24 or 40 hours but I forget. There are two schedules (a compressed and a regular) detailing when you should be doing what before the bar in great detail (listening, reading, and practicing).

It also has an online sample bank of like 600 to 1,000 (I forget) MBE questions, which is plenty. For essays NY posts tons of historical ones online, which I used and compared to answers they posted. After the fact, I believe this prepared me better for the essay portion than people who left their fate in BarBRI's hands.

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I.P. Daly
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby I.P. Daly » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:12 pm

Does Baroutlines provide NY multiple choice questions?

I thought the NY MC was the hardest section of the exam. However, it's only worth 10%, so bombing that section certainly won't break your score.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:15 pm

thesealocust wrote:There isn't much else to say. For NY it's 6x long MBE outlines covering all the MBE material, 1x good outline for each NY subject, a long set of audio lectures for the MBE and a long set of audio lectures for state material. The lectures are VERY fast paced, no stopping and explaining bullshit, just the laws you need to know. I think total runtime is around 24 or 40 hours but I forget. There are two schedules (a compressed and a regular) detailing when you should be doing what before the bar in great detail (listening, reading, and practicing).

It also has an online sample bank of like 600 to 1,000 (I forget) MBE questions, which is plenty. For essays NY posts tons of historical ones online, which I used and compared to answers they posted. After the fact, I believe this prepared me better for the essay portion than people who left their fate in BarBRI's hands.


Sounds like a pretty good deal for a hundred bucks, if you ask me. (What is that like a day of rent in Manhattan?) Too bad there doesn't seem to be a hardcopy option (for a little extra $) for the outlines. Would be great to not have to stare at a laptop screen for hours on end.

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thesealocust
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby thesealocust » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:41 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
thesealocust wrote:There isn't much else to say. For NY it's 6x long MBE outlines covering all the MBE material, 1x good outline for each NY subject, a long set of audio lectures for the MBE and a long set of audio lectures for state material. The lectures are VERY fast paced, no stopping and explaining bullshit, just the laws you need to know. I think total runtime is around 24 or 40 hours but I forget. There are two schedules (a compressed and a regular) detailing when you should be doing what before the bar in great detail (listening, reading, and practicing).

It also has an online sample bank of like 600 to 1,000 (I forget) MBE questions, which is plenty. For essays NY posts tons of historical ones online, which I used and compared to answers they posted. After the fact, I believe this prepared me better for the essay portion than people who left their fate in BarBRI's hands.


Sounds like a pretty good deal for a hundred bucks, if you ask me. (What is that like a day of rent in Manhattan?) Too bad there doesn't seem to be a hardcopy option (for a little extra $) for the outlines. Would be great to not have to stare at a laptop screen for hours on end.


Yup. Also... print the outlines? From a printer?

I.P. Daly wrote:Does Baroutlines provide NY multiple choice questions?

I thought the NY MC was the hardest section of the exam. However, it's only worth 10%, so bombing that section certainly won't break your score.


No, but BarBRI's weren't exactly great. I think I spent like an hour studying NYMC from a friend's book (obviously I spent a lot of time studying the laws of NY that are tested on the NYMC).

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:48 pm

thesealocust wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
thesealocust wrote:There isn't much else to say. For NY it's 6x long MBE outlines covering all the MBE material, 1x good outline for each NY subject, a long set of audio lectures for the MBE and a long set of audio lectures for state material. The lectures are VERY fast paced, no stopping and explaining bullshit, just the laws you need to know. I think total runtime is around 24 or 40 hours but I forget. There are two schedules (a compressed and a regular) detailing when you should be doing what before the bar in great detail (listening, reading, and practicing).

It also has an online sample bank of like 600 to 1,000 (I forget) MBE questions, which is plenty. For essays NY posts tons of historical ones online, which I used and compared to answers they posted. After the fact, I believe this prepared me better for the essay portion than people who left their fate in BarBRI's hands.


Sounds like a pretty good deal for a hundred bucks, if you ask me. (What is that like a day of rent in Manhattan?) Too bad there doesn't seem to be a hardcopy option (for a little extra $) for the outlines. Would be great to not have to stare at a laptop screen for hours on end.


Yup. Also... print the outlines? From a printer?


The ink and paper to print those outlines vastly exceeds the cost to simply buy used outlines published by another company. Also, have you ever tried to printing 1,000+ pages on regular printer paper? I have, and it's absurd (not to mention you then need to deal with binding it all). You really need the thinner paper and the type of heavy duty printer used to print books. Not saying baroutlines still isn't a killer deal for a $100 (because it is), but I personally can't stand staring at my computer screen for extended periods of time.

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thesealocust
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby thesealocust » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:00 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:The ink and paper to print those outlines vastly exceeds the cost to simply buy used outlines published by another company. Also, have you ever tried to printing 1,000+ pages on regular printer paper? I have, and it's absurd (not to mention you then need to deal with binding it all). You really need the thinner paper and the type of heavy duty printer used to print books. Not saying baroutlines still isn't a killer deal for a $100 (because it is), but I personally can't stand staring at my computer screen for extended periods of time.


Printing all of the baroutlines.com outlines wouldn't come close to a thousand pages. I think the longest was 40 or so, the shortest 5 or 6, and there were only 2-3 dozen total outlines. I also feel like there was an option to get hardcopies somewhere but I didn't look at it closely.

run26.2
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby run26.2 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:22 am

thesealocust wrote:
run26.2 wrote:
kalvano wrote:As near as I can tell, there is nothing really wrong with BarBri. Tons of people use it and pass. The main problem is that it's overpriced for what it offers, and not really worth 2.5 times what other courses cost.

If someone else is paying, go with BarBri if you want to maximize your chances. If you're paying, you won't miss much by going Themis / Kaplan.

Is that about right?

I'd say that if that someone else is a large NYC law firm, I would certainly go with BarBri. If you use something else and fail, I believe your firm would be more prone to question your judgment.


Your firm doesn't exist as an entity. Literally nobody at your firm gives a crap about anything except their particular clients and job responsibilities. There is no Standing Committee on Judging the Choices of Associates.

Every year people fail the bar. After that happens, they retake the bar and usually pass. At no point do they write a letter explaining their misdeeds or sit in a confessional with Name and Ampersand LLP.

I was referring to the reputation you would develop at your firm. I would guess most lawyers have heard of BarBri, but probably not Themis. I'd guess some but not all are aware that Kaplan provides bar prep. I personally would not want to be the guy that failed the bar after having taken a review course that people at my firm had not heard of. Maybe that's just me.

And I agree that most firms give you another shot. But I also know people whose offers were contingent on passing the bar by a certain period before the date of the February bar.

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thesealocust
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby thesealocust » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:37 am

run26.2 wrote:I was referring to the reputation you would develop at your firm. I would guess most lawyers have heard of BarBri, but probably not Themis. I'd guess some but not all are aware that Kaplan provides bar prep. I personally would not want to be the guy that failed the bar after having taken a review course that people at my firm had not heard of. Maybe that's just me.

And I agree that most firms give you another shot. But I also know people whose offers were contingent on passing the bar by a certain period before the date of the February bar.


It doesn't really come up at firms. Plenty of people have delayed bar swearing in for non bar-failing reasons anyway.

Literally nobody at my firm except maybe an HR drone tasked to check and a friend or two I've spoken to even knows if I passed or failed.

run26.2
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Re: Barbri ...... why???

Postby run26.2 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:41 pm

thesealocust wrote:
run26.2 wrote:I was referring to the reputation you would develop at your firm. I would guess most lawyers have heard of BarBri, but probably not Themis. I'd guess some but not all are aware that Kaplan provides bar prep. I personally would not want to be the guy that failed the bar after having taken a review course that people at my firm had not heard of. Maybe that's just me.

And I agree that most firms give you another shot. But I also know people whose offers were contingent on passing the bar by a certain period before the date of the February bar.


It doesn't really come up at firms. Plenty of people have delayed bar swearing in for non bar-failing reasons anyway.

Literally nobody at my firm except maybe an HR drone tasked to check and a friend or two I've spoken to even knows if I passed or failed.

You are generalizing from your experience to all firms.

Some firms do not check too closely. Others do. Mine wanted to know, and there was a formal swearing-in ceremony for people who passed at the office, attended by several lawyers at the firm. Anyone who didn't pass would have stuck out like a sore thumb. I know from others at large firms that their firm did take an interest in whether they passed. I also know of a couple of instances of firms where people did not pass and it was not a big deal, but people at the firm were certainly aware that the person did not pass.

In any case, it may not "come up" all that frequently, but people (HR, lawyers) are going to know if you did not pass the bar.




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