Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

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mr.hands
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Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby mr.hands » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:22 pm

I go to a lower T14 (7-14) and I am right at median (and I mean RIGHT at our school's posted median)

I am a little worried that, although I am at our median for each class (3.3), I may be below the class's overall median/mean GPA.

Is this a realistic possibility? if so, is it something that i should worry about (since the only info released to employers is the median for each class)?

Sorry for the aspie-ness.
Last edited by mr.hands on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

09042014
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:23 pm

Mean isn't relevant.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:27 pm

mr.hands wrote:I go to a lower T14 (7-14) and I am right at median (and I mean RIGHT at our school's posted median)

I am a little worried that, although I am at our median for each class (3.3), I may be below the class's overall median GPA.

Is this a realistic possibility? if so, is it something that i should worry about (since the only info released to employers is the median)?

Sorry for the aspie-ness.


I bet your school experiences grade inflation because nearly all schools experience grade inflation. Your school will likely publish a median GPA that is not a 3.3. 3.3 is the median in each class, but because the professors will give out more A-'s, A's, and A+'s than B's,B-'s, and C+'s you will see that the median will be like 3.4. So yeah, if you got all median grades you will probably be slightly below median.

EDIT-- didn't see bolded. Is that true. If so then that will soften the blow, and you can probably pass yourself off as a median student.
Last edited by Lord Randolph McDuff on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mr.hands
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby mr.hands » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:29 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
mr.hands wrote:I go to a lower T14 (7-14) and I am right at median (and I mean RIGHT at our school's posted median)

I am a little worried that, although I am at our median for each class (3.3), I may be below the class's overall median GPA.

Is this a realistic possibility? if so, is it something that i should worry about (since the only info released to employers is the median)?

Sorry for the aspie-ness.


I bet your school experiences grade inflation because nearly all schools experience grade inflation. Your school will likely publish a median GPA that is not a 3.3. 3.3 is the median in each class, but because the professors will give out more A-'s, A's, and A+'s than B's,B-'s, and C+'s you will see that the median will be like 3.4. So yeah, if you got all median grades you will probably be slightly below median.


Does that matter employment-wise if the school doesn't publish rank or percentiles?

Pokemon
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby Pokemon » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:38 pm

Yes... that is a realistic possibility.
Let's say median per class is 3.33, aka B+.


If more A+, A and A- are given than B or B-, then median is probably above 3.33.
If A+ are given, but nothing below a B-, then again median is probably above 3.33.

More details can be provided if you post law school curve.

mr.hands
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby mr.hands » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:40 pm

Pokemon wrote:Yes... that is a realistic possibility.
Let's say median per class is 3.33, aka B+.


If more A+, A and A- are given than B or B-, then median is probably above 3.33.
If A+ are given, but nothing below a B-, then again median is probably above 3.33.

More details can be provided if you post law school curve.


3.3 is the median. Unfortunately, it's the only information i have. This is exactly the same info- and only info- given to employers. (Judges are the only exception to this rule, i believe federal judges actually do receive rankings. That's just a rumor though, can't verify myself)

Pokemon
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby Pokemon » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:42 pm

mr.hands wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Yes... that is a realistic possibility.
Let's say median per class is 3.33, aka B+.


If more A+, A and A- are given than B or B-, then median is probably above 3.33.
If A+ are given, but nothing below a B-, then again median is probably above 3.33.

More details can be provided if you post law school curve.


3.3 is the median. Unfortunately, it's the only information i have. This is exactly the same info- and only info- given to employers. (Judges are the only exception to this rule, i believe federal judges actually do receive rankings. That's just a rumor though, can't verify myself)

Name of school?

mr.hands
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby mr.hands » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:02 pm

Pokemon wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
Pokemon wrote:Yes... that is a realistic possibility.
Let's say median per class is 3.33, aka B+.


If more A+, A and A- are given than B or B-, then median is probably above 3.33.
If A+ are given, but nothing below a B-, then again median is probably above 3.33.

More details can be provided if you post law school curve.


3.3 is the median. Unfortunately, it's the only information i have. This is exactly the same info- and only info- given to employers. (Judges are the only exception to this rule, i believe federal judges actually do receive rankings. That's just a rumor though, can't verify myself)

Name of school?


Sigh, i'd like to keep as much anonymity as possible but it is one of V, NU, C

Pokemon
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby Pokemon » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:13 pm

If you are at V then probably you are median. At NU you are slightly below, but not enough for employees to notice. At C also below.

If it makes you feel any better, LAW FIRMS will not care. They do not spend time trying to figure out your exact GPA/rank or anything like that... Grades are important but not in the way 1Ls imagine them.

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5ky
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby 5ky » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:25 am

Pokemon wrote:If you are at V then probably you are median. At NU you are slightly below, but not enough for employees to notice. At C also below.

If it makes you feel any better, LAW FIRMS will not care. They do not spend time trying to figure out your exact GPA/rank or anything like that... Grades are important but not in the way 1Ls imagine them.


At least according to thesealocust, whose word is gold, recruiting departments do exactly that -- take your transcript and calculate out the GPA (if you don't list it on your resume).

Also, if you are at UVA, a lot of the info is wrong in this thread. The curve for each class has to be between a 3.25 and 3.35 -- this is the mean GPA of everyone, not the median. That means professors cannot give out more A+/A/A- grades than B/B-/C+ grades, because doing so would inflate the mean GPA of the class above a 3.35, the upper limit.

So if at UVA, like Pokemon said, you'd be right at the middle. I can't speak to the other 2.

09042014
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:52 am

5ky wrote:
Pokemon wrote:If you are at V then probably you are median. At NU you are slightly below, but not enough for employees to notice. At C also below.

If it makes you feel any better, LAW FIRMS will not care. They do not spend time trying to figure out your exact GPA/rank or anything like that... Grades are important but not in the way 1Ls imagine them.


At least according to thesealocust, whose word is gold, recruiting departments do exactly that -- take your transcript and calculate out the GPA (if you don't list it on your resume).

Also, if you are at UVA, a lot of the info is wrong in this thread. The curve for each class has to be between a 3.25 and 3.35 -- this is the mean GPA of everyone, not the median. That means professors cannot give out more A+/A/A- grades than B/B-/C+ grades, because doing so would inflate the mean GPA of the class above a 3.35, the upper limit.

So if at UVA, like Pokemon said, you'd be right at the middle. I can't speak to the other 2.


They'll calculate your GPA, but they don't waste their time figuring out what your estimated rank is. But they can sorta tell if they get applicants from your school.

But my firm was definitely fooled by rancid Northwestern grade inflation.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Is it possible/likely that median is lower than mean

Postby somewhatwayward » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:54 am

They may take the time to calculate GPAs but I don't think they are drawing fine distinctions between 3.3 and 3.25. I think generally you have kids that firms consider to have good or better grades (the cutoff will depend on the school), then you have an undifferentiated middle, and then there are the kids firms consider to have bad grades. On the curves at T14 schools, the middle bulge is pretty big because so many Bs and B+s are given. A large segment of the class falls within .1 or so of the median. In this large undifferentiated middle, other factors start to come into play in hiring...good interviewer, law review write-on, smart bidding, resume softs like prestigious undergrad or WE, etc.




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