Quick question.

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
splittermcsplit88
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 10:40 pm

Quick question.

Postby splittermcsplit88 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:27 pm

Assignment says I can use 9th Circuit cases, but I can't use appellate cases. BUT, Circuit courts are for appeals. Is appellate different from appeals? I always thought they meant the same. Sorry if this sounds ridiculously stupid.

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13915
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: Quick question.

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:31 pm

splittermcsplit88 wrote:Assignment says I can use 9th Circuit cases, but I can't use appellate cases. BUT, Circuit courts are for appeals. Is appellate different from appeals? I always thought they meant the same. Sorry if this sounds ridiculously stupid.

Maybe you can use cases from the trial-level district courts in the 9th circuit?

District of Alaska
District of Arizona
Central District of California
Eastern District of California
Northern District of California
Southern District of California
District of Hawaii
District of Idaho
District of Montana
District of Nevada
District of Oregon
Eastern District of Washington
Western District of Washington

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3225
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby ph14 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:33 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
splittermcsplit88 wrote:Assignment says I can use 9th Circuit cases, but I can't use appellate cases. BUT, Circuit courts are for appeals. Is appellate different from appeals? I always thought they meant the same. Sorry if this sounds ridiculously stupid.

Maybe you can use cases from the trial-level district courts in the 9th circuit?

District of Alaska
District of Arizona
Central District of California
Eastern District of California
Northern District of California
Southern District of California
District of Hawaii
District of Idaho
District of Montana
District of Nevada
District of Oregon
Eastern District of Washington
Western District of Washington


This. OP, not a stupid question at all. What rinkrat said must be what your professor meant, although they were not precise. That is just lawyers shorthand that is difficult for 1Ls to understand. And appellate is the exact same thing as appeals.

User avatar
splittermcsplit88
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby splittermcsplit88 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:40 pm

Well, I'm trying to establish a rule from the cases. I'm guessing circuit courts don't make case law then? It's because I found this case that seems to fit so perfectly, but I can't use it. Sigh.

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3225
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby ph14 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:43 pm

splittermcsplit88 wrote:Well, I'm trying to establish a rule from the cases. I'm guessing circuit courts don't make case law then? It's because I found this case that seems to fit so perfectly, but I can't use it. Sigh.


Circuit courts do make case law, lots of it. But you can't use it per your assignment? If you found a good circuit court explanation then go to citing references and see which district courts have applied it. Since they are bound by appellate decisions, unless the case is bound knew you will be able to find a district court case saying the same thing. Also, it seems like a very strange project to ban appellate cases.

User avatar
splittermcsplit88
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby splittermcsplit88 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:51 pm

It's for my legal writing assignment - the prof said we can use federal, 9th circuit, and state cases, but any appellate and trial courts we can't use because they don't make law, they're persuasive. Am I not getting something?

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3225
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby ph14 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:53 pm

splittermcsplit88 wrote:It's for my legal writing assignment - the prof said we can use federal, 9th circuit, and state cases, but any appellate and trial courts we can't use because they don't make law, they're persuasive.


What? If you can't use any appellate or trial courts you could not use ANY courts. Are you sure you are reporting that definition correctly?

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby stillwater » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:56 pm

If the cases were from other circuit courts, then they'd be persuasive but not precedential.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22836
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Quick question.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:56 pm

splittermcsplit88 wrote:It's for my legal writing assignment - the prof said we can use federal, 9th circuit, and state cases, but any appellate and trial courts we can't use because they don't make law, they're persuasive. Am I not getting something?

Okay, but 9th Circuit is appellate, and federal and state both come in appellate varieties...? Do you think s/he means you can't use out of circuit appellate? Because that is persuasive, not binding.

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13915
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: Quick question.

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:57 pm

Ok, you need to learn which courts are binding in the jurisdiction you're working with. It sounds like you aren't sure.

So if your case takes place in Los Angeles, the Central District of Cali, the Cali Supreme Ct, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (maybe), and the US Supreme court (maybe) are binding.
The other district courts in that list I posted earlier, supreme courts in other states, and the circuit courts of appeals besides the 9th are just persuasive.

I think I have that right.

Maybe your prof said "don't use trial or appellate courts that are just persuasive, not binding"?

ETA: corrected by ph14, who clearly knows this better than I.
Last edited by rinkrat19 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:00 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3225
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby ph14 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:57 pm

Image

User avatar
ph14
Posts: 3225
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby ph14 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:58 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Ok, you need to learn which courts are binding in the jurisdiction you're working with. It sounds like you aren't sure.

So if your case takes place in Los Angeles, the Southern District of Cali, the Cali Supreme Ct, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, and the US Supreme court are binding.

The other district courts in that list I posted earlier, supreme courts in other states, and the circuit courts of appeals besides the 9th are just persuasive.

I think I have that right.


It depends on whether it is a state or federal case/issue. And Los Angeles is in C.D. Cal.

kingofdara
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:49 am

Re: Quick question.

Postby kingofdara » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:05 am

Sounds like a miscommunication / misunderstanding. Can you ask a classmate? Seems ridiculous to not be able to use 9th circuit cases when you're in the 9th circuit. What's the point of that?

User avatar
reasonable_man
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Quick question.

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:16 am

splittermcsplit88 wrote:It's for my legal writing assignment - the prof said we can use federal, 9th circuit, and state cases, but any appellate and trial courts we can't use because they don't make law, they're persuasive. Am I not getting something?



You have it all wrong. You completely fucked up the assignment dood. Go back and find out what the hell the assignment is and then come back and re-ask the question (if you still have one). If you cannot use decisions from appellate Courts or trial courts then the only courts left are kangaroo courts and those are really not very persuasive.

Also note that both trial courts and appellate courts (in the federal and the state systems) are capable of “making law.” In a situation where there is a trial court decision but no federal decision the trial court decision is “instructive” but not binding on another state court facing a similar issue.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jerrycallo and 14 guests