Turns out LS is just like UG

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:03 pm

zworykin wrote:
mirodh wrote:My two best examples are a seminar which had work throughout semester and a class which was a bs class where the prof simply bunched everyone on the curve. The first situation I talked to prof after turning if final assignment but before grades were posted, second situation I talked to prof at the beginning of the year. Both profs made it clear it was good I talked to them and that people in the past with similar situations had "ended up doing well," etc. Please don't quote this response.


So, what you're saying is that in neither case do you have any idea whether or not your begging actually made a difference. You could have actually earned whatever grade you received. :roll:

Yup, exactly. I really don't think profs saying that means remotely what you think it means. Profs regularly tell students it was good they came to talk to them - it doesn't promise an outcome. People in similar situations "doing well" probably means...people in your situation did well (though I'm also not clear what the "situation" is to begin with. Needing a certain grade to maintain a scholly? All they would mean is that people who'd needed a certain grade usually managed to get it - it doesn't remotely suggest it's because the prof did anything to help them out). You really think that talking to a prof at the beginning of the year means s/he went back at the end of the semester after the blind grading to change something?

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justonemoregame
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby justonemoregame » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:34 pm

mirodh wrote:
zworykin wrote:Perhaps the reason you're facing such a negative reaction, OP, is that most people here (and probably most people in general, if you were to ask them) are of the opinion that if you can only achieve your goals by asking your professors to give you grades you didn't earn, you don't belong in law school in the first place.


Your clients will enjoy your idealism leading to less than optimal results.



I first read this and thought it was someone talking about you. Judge, I need this verdict.

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jrf12886
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby jrf12886 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:58 pm

I have actually heard of this working with some profs. I spoke to a couple of my prof's after an exam, and althought my grade didn't change, the profs did look over my exam to make sure they did not make any errors in grading. I was surprised they didn't tell me to get lost.

mirodh
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby mirodh » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:25 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
zworykin wrote:
mirodh wrote:My two best examples are a seminar which had work throughout semester and a class which was a bs class where the prof simply bunched everyone on the curve. The first situation I talked to prof after turning if final assignment but before grades were posted, second situation I talked to prof at the beginning of the year. Both profs made it clear it was good I talked to them and that people in the past with similar situations had "ended up doing well," etc. Please don't quote this response.


So, what you're saying is that in neither case do you have any idea whether or not your begging actually made a difference. You could have actually earned whatever grade you received. :roll:

Yup, exactly. I really don't think profs saying that means remotely what you think it means. Profs regularly tell students it was good they came to talk to them - it doesn't promise an outcome. People in similar situations "doing well" probably means...people in your situation did well (though I'm also not clear what the "situation" is to begin with. Needing a certain grade to maintain a scholly? All they would mean is that people who'd needed a certain grade usually managed to get it - it doesn't remotely suggest it's because the prof did anything to help them out). You really think that talking to a prof at the beginning of the year means s/he went back at the end of the semester after the blind grading to change something?


It was how it was said, in a wink & nod fashion. And yes, it is impossible to prove--I wouldn't want to have any way of actually proving it because I don't know how such knowledge would be treated by the law school administration. But they weren't telling me "it's good you came to my office to discuss X, Y, & Z law," they were saying "it is good you came and told me about this, because if I hadn't of know this I might have given you [lower grade]." If I was out of the ballpark of getting the grade anyways it wouldn't have worked--this is not going to magically turn a C into an A, but if its on the borderline then I 100% believe it can only help (and has, for me).

mirodh
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby mirodh » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:27 pm

justonemoregame wrote:
mirodh wrote:
zworykin wrote:Perhaps the reason you're facing such a negative reaction, OP, is that most people here (and probably most people in general, if you were to ask them) are of the opinion that if you can only achieve your goals by asking your professors to give you grades you didn't earn, you don't belong in law school in the first place.


Your clients will enjoy your idealism leading to less than optimal results.



I first read this and thought it was someone talking about you. Judge, I need this verdict.


It's more about, you know, using all the tools available to you and other such realistic nonsense. If it is not against the "rules" and it will help out you/your client's situation you should be doing it; often you are obligated to do it.

mirodh
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby mirodh » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:30 pm

jrf12886 wrote:I have actually heard of this working with some profs. I spoke to a couple of my prof's after an exam, and althought my grade didn't change, the profs did look over my exam to make sure they did not make any errors in grading. I was surprised they didn't tell me to get lost.


TY. It really isn't that absurd a notion if people can get past the knee-jerk reactions amounting to: "BUT IT'S LAW SCHOOL," "BUT IT ISN'T FAIR," and "THIS SHOULDN'T WORK BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO IT."

09042014
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:54 pm

At my school everyone in a seminar gets an A-, and "participation" almost always counts. I don't know why anyone is shocked about it.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:59 pm

mirodh wrote:
jrf12886 wrote:I have actually heard of this working with some profs. I spoke to a couple of my prof's after an exam, and althought my grade didn't change, the profs did look over my exam to make sure they did not make any errors in grading. I was surprised they didn't tell me to get lost.


TY. It really isn't that absurd a notion if people can get past the knee-jerk reactions amounting to: "BUT IT'S LAW SCHOOL," "BUT IT ISN'T FAIR," and "THIS SHOULDN'T WORK BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO IT."

It's not that it's not fair; it's that every prof I've ever met hates when students try to pull this crap. (I don't think having the prof look over an exam again is crap, to be clear; I'm addressing the idea of telling profs you "need" a certain grade.) But hey, maybe law profs are all totally wack, who knows.

KidStuddi
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby KidStuddi » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:55 pm

mirodh wrote:
jrf12886 wrote:I have actually heard of this working with some profs. I spoke to a couple of my prof's after an exam, and althought my grade didn't change, the profs did look over my exam to make sure they did not make any errors in grading. I was surprised they didn't tell me to get lost.


TY. It really isn't that absurd a notion if people can get past the knee-jerk reactions amounting to: "BUT IT'S LAW SCHOOL," "BUT IT ISN'T FAIR," and "THIS SHOULDN'T WORK BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO IT."



I'm not going to comment about the whole beg for an A before the exam strategy, but on this point you're pretty clownish.

The reason people say it doesn't work that way in law school is because of the forced curves. If a profesor is maximizing the curve, changing one person's grade after the the fact could very well mean that someone else's grade has to be changed to balance it. How much would it suck to check your transcript one day and see that that A- you thought you had is now a B+ because some dick argued for more points? For this reason, it tends to be incredibly hard to change a grade after the fact at any school serious about enforcing a grade curve.

At my school, while professors have discretion to raise or lower a grade a half step (A- to A) for "participation" before grades are submitted, once the grades are in and verified by the records office, professors cannot retroactively change the grades they gave except in case of a documented arithmetic error (i.e. they scored 40 points on two sections and they gave you 70) or a typographical error (they wrote down 96 on your exam but typed in 69 when they submitted). Hence, at least at my school, asking a professor to go over the exam so you can try and argue for more points or point out things they missed is entirely pointless. I don't imagine GW is the only school with a written policy to this effect that is enforced by the records office.

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zworykin
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby zworykin » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:59 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
At my school, while professors have discretion to raise or lower a grade a half step (A- to A) for "participation" before grades are submitted, once the grades are in and verified by the records office, professors cannot retroactively change the grades they gave except in case of a documented arithmetic error (i.e. they scored 40 points on two sections and they gave you 70) or a typographical error (they wrote down 96 on your exam but typed in 69 when they submitted). Hence, at least at my school, asking a professor to go over the exam so you can try and argue for more points or point out things they missed is entirely pointless. I don't imagine GW is the only school with a written policy to this effect that is enforced by the records office.


I would be surprised if there were half a dozen that don't have such a policy. Among reputable schools, anyway.

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Mick Haller
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby Mick Haller » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:03 pm

Not trying to wade into this shitshow, but I will say that I did succeed in getting a 3L grade bumped up from B to B+, just by nicely asking the professor to double check my grade. If you are disappointed and feel you did better than what you got, it definitely doesn't hurt to try.

mirodh
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby mirodh » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:02 am

KidStuddi wrote:
mirodh wrote:
jrf12886 wrote:I have actually heard of this working with some profs. I spoke to a couple of my prof's after an exam, and althought my grade didn't change, the profs did look over my exam to make sure they did not make any errors in grading. I was surprised they didn't tell me to get lost.


TY. It really isn't that absurd a notion if people can get past the knee-jerk reactions amounting to: "BUT IT'S LAW SCHOOL," "BUT IT ISN'T FAIR," and "THIS SHOULDN'T WORK BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO IT."



I'm not going to comment about the whole beg for an A before the exam strategy, but on this point you're pretty clownish.

The reason people say it doesn't work that way in law school is because of the forced curves. If a profesor is maximizing the curve, changing one person's grade after the the fact could very well mean that someone else's grade has to be changed to balance it. How much would it suck to check your transcript one day and see that that A- you thought you had is now a B+ because some dick argued for more points? For this reason, it tends to be incredibly hard to change a grade after the fact at any school serious about enforcing a grade curve.

At my school, while professors have discretion to raise or lower a grade a half step (A- to A) for "participation" before grades are submitted, once the grades are in and verified by the records office, professors cannot retroactively change the grades they gave except in case of a documented arithmetic error (i.e. they scored 40 points on two sections and they gave you 70) or a typographical error (they wrote down 96 on your exam but typed in 69 when they submitted). Hence, at least at my school, asking a professor to go over the exam so you can try and argue for more points or point out things they missed is entirely pointless. I don't imagine GW is the only school with a written policy to this effect that is enforced by the records office.


Once again, I did not ever get a grade change which had already been submitted/posted; sometimes after the exam but before grades were submitted, but never have I tried to take the "arithmetic error" route (which my school also has a policy about).

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cinephile
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby cinephile » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:14 am

mirodh wrote:Once again, I did not ever get a grade change which had already been submitted/posted; sometimes after the exam but before grades were submitted, but never have I tried to take the "arithmetic error" route (which my school also has a policy about).


At my school, talking to a professor about the course or your grade after the exam, but before grades are posted is a violation of the honor code. You can get kicked out of school for that sort of thing.

KidStuddi
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby KidStuddi » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:17 am

mirodh wrote:Once again, I did not ever get a grade change which had already been submitted/posted; sometimes after the exam but before grades were submitted, but never have I tried to take the "arithmetic error" route (which my school also has a policy about).


Acknowledged as much in my post. I was responding to your aspersions about people who don't approach their professors begging for grades, insinuating that we don't know why we don't approach them, which you made in response to someone who specifically said he approached a professor post exam and post grade (noting that it didn't change).

mirodh
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby mirodh » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:23 am

KidStuddi wrote:
mirodh wrote:Once again, I did not ever get a grade change which had already been submitted/posted; sometimes after the exam but before grades were submitted, but never have I tried to take the "arithmetic error" route (which my school also has a policy about).


Acknowledged as much in my post. I was responding to your aspersions about people who don't approach their professors begging for grades, insinuating that we don't know why we don't approach them, which you made in response to someone who specifically said he approached a professor post exam and post grade (noting that it didn't change).


I wasn't insinuating people don't know why they don't approach profs. I was making statements about the people who ITT are claiming my statements are bullshit based on nothing but their own preconceived notions of how law school should work. Not really trying to get into an argument on this point, just clarifying the intent of my previous post.

mirodh
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby mirodh » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:53 pm

Interesting and (somewhat) relevant. http://abovethelaw.com/2013/01/would-yo ... higan-law/

redgreenpaper
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby redgreenpaper » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:27 pm

3|ink wrote:
mirodh wrote:
3|ink wrote:shit troll


Enjoy that A- breh, it could have been an A if you hadn't of been so aspie.

I did get an A. No A- yet


lmao e-statting much? pics without your shirt on or you're lying

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gaud
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby gaud » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:28 pm

what i miss?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:30 pm

gaud wrote:what i miss?

absolutely nothing.

bartleby
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Re: Turns out LS is just like UG

Postby bartleby » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:52 pm

our school has a written policy that after grades are entered in, the prof would have to petition the entire faculty to change the grade.

not sure if its 100% true but... it's good enough for me not to ask lol




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