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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby 3|ink » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:09 pm

Also, B+ isn't necessarily median at GULC. It depends on the professor. The median was a B in one of my classes and a B+ in another. I'd be willing the bet the median is on the high end of 3.1x

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby shepdawg » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:37 pm

manofjustice wrote:
shepdawg wrote:B+ is median? That doesn't sound right. B+ lands top 5% at my school.


Lower-ranked schools tend to have a lower median. Higher-ranked schools tend to have a higher median.

Because higher ranked schools give "higher" grades to more people.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby clarion » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:20 am

3|ink wrote:Also, B+ isn't necessarily median at GULC. It depends on the professor. The median was a B in one of my classes and a B+ in another. I'd be willing the bet the median is on the high end of 3.1x


Yeah I was gonna say: I don't know about the PT program and how your guy's grades work, but I think median for FT at GULC is about a 3.17 which is roughly somewhere between a B and a B+. Like I say, maybe the curve is higher for PT, and that's not even mentioning the fact that curves vary even between the different FT sections. Anyways, I'd look at the grade breakdowns for each of your classes (clicking your letter grade on myaccess) and do some deductive reasoning. Maybe median IS 3.33, but like I say, I don't think so.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby swtlilsoni » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:11 am

clarion wrote:
3|ink wrote:Also, B+ isn't necessarily median at GULC. It depends on the professor. The median was a B in one of my classes and a B+ in another. I'd be willing the bet the median is on the high end of 3.1x


Yeah I was gonna say: I don't know about the PT program and how your guy's grades work, but I think median for FT at GULC is about a 3.17 which is roughly somewhere between a B and a B+. Like I say, maybe the curve is higher for PT, and that's not even mentioning the fact that curves vary even between the different FT sections. Anyways, I'd look at the grade breakdowns for each of your classes (clicking your letter grade on myaccess) and do some deductive reasoning. Maybe median IS 3.33, but like I say, I don't think so.


I go to GULC too actually (thanks for your reply to my other post)..why do you think median is 3.17?

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby clarion » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:26 am

swtlilsoni wrote:
clarion wrote:
3|ink wrote:Also, B+ isn't necessarily median at GULC. It depends on the professor. The median was a B in one of my classes and a B+ in another. I'd be willing the bet the median is on the high end of 3.1x


Yeah I was gonna say: I don't know about the PT program and how your guy's grades work, but I think median for FT at GULC is about a 3.17 which is roughly somewhere between a B and a B+. Like I say, maybe the curve is higher for PT, and that's not even mentioning the fact that curves vary even between the different FT sections. Anyways, I'd look at the grade breakdowns for each of your classes (clicking your letter grade on myaccess) and do some deductive reasoning. Maybe median IS 3.33, but like I say, I don't think so.


I go to GULC too actually (thanks for your reply to my other post)..why do you think median is 3.17?


No problem! :) And for a number of reasons. First, and probably least convincing, I saw that someone on TLS said that was about median at GULC lol. Second, when you look at grade breakdowns in my section at least, the vast majority of grades in almost all my classes fell between Bs and B+s. So, with Bs being 3.0 and B+s 3.33, 3.17 makes sense in that regard as well.

Third, I read an article from a couple years ago which was explaining GULC's decision to raise the curve and gave an outline of how the new grade breakdowns would be likely to look compared to the old ones. I then took that info (which I forget how I did it and what it was based on, but), did some math, and came out to roughly 3.16-3.18. Fourth, I went through my classes, took the percentage of people who scored in any given class above a B and the three numbers I got were 58, 59 and 62%. Again suggesting that median would be somewhere between B and B+, ESPECIALLY when you consider that chances are there are people who were in that 58, 59, or 62% in one class, and then on the other end in another (myself).

So anyways, none of these things alone would convince me the median is 3.17ish, but all taken together I've pretty much taken it to be true. Even if it's not 3.17 (as it's sure to vary from section-to-section after all), I'd imagine it'd be somewhere around there. And honestly, if anyone has information to the contrary, PLEASE correct me.

I'm curious though, what makes you guys think it's higher/something else?

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby nmg5211 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:40 am

clarion wrote:
swtlilsoni wrote:
clarion wrote:
3|ink wrote:Also, B+ isn't necessarily median at GULC. It depends on the professor. The median was a B in one of my classes and a B+ in another. I'd be willing the bet the median is on the high end of 3.1x


Yeah I was gonna say: I don't know about the PT program and how your guy's grades work, but I think median for FT at GULC is about a 3.17 which is roughly somewhere between a B and a B+. Like I say, maybe the curve is higher for PT, and that's not even mentioning the fact that curves vary even between the different FT sections. Anyways, I'd look at the grade breakdowns for each of your classes (clicking your letter grade on myaccess) and do some deductive reasoning. Maybe median IS 3.33, but like I say, I don't think so.


I go to GULC too actually (thanks for your reply to my other post)..why do you think median is 3.17?


No problem! :) And for a number of reasons. First, and probably least convincing, I saw that someone on TLS said that was about median at GULC lol. Second, when you look at grade breakdowns in my section at least, the vast majority of grades in almost all my classes fell between Bs and B+s. So, with Bs being 3.0 and B+s 3.33, 3.17 makes sense in that regard as well.

Third, I read an article from a couple years ago which was explaining GULC's decision to raise the curve and gave an outline of how the new grade breakdowns would be likely to look compared to the old ones. I then took that info (which I forget how I did it and what it was based on, but), did some math, and came out to roughly 3.16-3.18. Fourth, I went through my classes, took the percentage of people who scored in any given class above a B and the three numbers I got were 58, 59 and 62%. Again suggesting that median would be somewhere between B and B+, ESPECIALLY when you consider that chances are there are people who were in that 58, 59, or 62% in one class, and then on the other end in another (myself).

So anyways, none of these things alone would convince me the median is 3.17ish, but all taken together I've pretty much taken it to be true. Even if it's not 3.17 (as it's sure to vary from section-to-section after all), I'd imagine it'd be somewhere around there. And honestly, if anyone has information to the contrary, PLEASE correct me.

I'm curious though, what makes you guys think it's higher/something else?


I'm a total bozo when it comes to statistics - how exactly would I figure this out?

The curve is the same for PT as it is FT, by the way.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby 3|ink » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:26 am

swtlilsoni wrote:
clarion wrote:
3|ink wrote:Also, B+ isn't necessarily median at GULC. It depends on the professor. The median was a B in one of my classes and a B+ in another. I'd be willing the bet the median is on the high end of 3.1x


Yeah I was gonna say: I don't know about the PT program and how your guy's grades work, but I think median for FT at GULC is about a 3.17 which is roughly somewhere between a B and a B+. Like I say, maybe the curve is higher for PT, and that's not even mentioning the fact that curves vary even between the different FT sections. Anyways, I'd look at the grade breakdowns for each of your classes (clicking your letter grade on myaccess) and do some deductive reasoning. Maybe median IS 3.33, but like I say, I don't think so.


I go to GULC too actually (thanks for your reply to my other post)..why do you think median is 3.17?

Well, wiki says so. Also:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/georgeto ... enter.html
The curve for classes at Georgetown Law has changed recently undergone changes. The new curve is: A: 10%, A-: 15%, B+: 25%, B: 30%, B-: 15%, C+ to F: 5%. The Curriculum & Academic Standards Committee explained why the recent change was implemented

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:42 am

The curve for classes at Georgetown Law has changed recently undergone changes. The new curve is: A: 10%, A-: 15%, B+: 25%, B: 30%, B-: 15%, C+ to F: 5%. The Curriculum & Academic Standards Committee explained why the recent change was implemented
[/quote]

That's about a 3.2 curve. Give or take. But that's not their curve.

This is http://www.law.georgetown.edu/campus-se ... ed-p46.pdf (page 27)

It's A:12% A-:19 B+:28% B:31-36% B- to F: 5-10%

That's about a B+ curve. And a really flat B+ curve below 3.33. I'm guessing virtually nobody has a 2.8 and very few have below 3.0.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby swtlilsoni » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:42 am

But the thing is, that is the median for each class. The "curve" is applied to each class individually. And then they take everyone's gpa and rank them. So..the median score according to the class curve doesn't necessarily equal the median according to the final distribution?

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:51 am

swtlilsoni wrote:But the thing is, that is the median for each class. The "curve" is applied to each class individually. And then they take everyone's gpa and rank them. So..the median score according to the class curve doesn't necessarily equal the median according to the final distribution?


Not exactly. You can figure out the mean GPA, which is what I did. Normally that doesn't give you the median. But in a normal distribution the mean and median is the same. The GPA distribution probably isn't exactly a normal distribution, but it's a good approximation.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby clarion » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:38 am

Desert Fox wrote:
swtlilsoni wrote:But the thing is, that is the median for each class. The "curve" is applied to each class individually. And then they take everyone's gpa and rank them. So..the median score according to the class curve doesn't necessarily equal the median according to the final distribution?


Not exactly. You can figure out the mean GPA, which is what I did. Normally that doesn't give you the median. But in a normal distribution the mean and median is the same. The GPA distribution probably isn't exactly a normal distribution, but it's a good approximation.


Well that's gonna vary a lot per section. It's insanely hard to tell w/o knowing the likelihood of someone having ONLY B+s and above. I'm assuming you're better at math than I am, and from what I can tell, the only thing I considered that you didn't was the grade distribution in each of my individual classes. In any event, for the purposes of this thread, even as you've defined it, a curve median below 3.33 would still put OP above median.

Also, the numbers you used weren't altogether correct. In my section for example, the three B- to F distributions were 7, 8 and 13%. One of those classes, btw, didn't have any B-s: only C+ and below. So again, it's gonna vary. So like, what I did for my section, is probably the similar to what you did using the website percentages, only using the specific percentages and credit hours from each of my classes. And I got 3.17. And of course that's not gonna be perfect. And also not gonna take into account that there are three Con Law sections in our section and I have no way of knowing how the other two sections were distributed. And it's also TOTALLY possible that I didn't do it correctly. But yeah.

EDIT: Btw, full disclosure, I have an invested interest (like everyone, I'm sure) in believing that the median is as low as possible lol So of course I'm gonna be more likely to ignore/question mentions elsewhere that median is 3.33ish and embrace mentions that median is closer to 3.17 :p

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:33 pm

clarion wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
swtlilsoni wrote:But the thing is, that is the median for each class. The "curve" is applied to each class individually. And then they take everyone's gpa and rank them. So..the median score according to the class curve doesn't necessarily equal the median according to the final distribution?


Not exactly. You can figure out the mean GPA, which is what I did. Normally that doesn't give you the median. But in a normal distribution the mean and median is the same. The GPA distribution probably isn't exactly a normal distribution, but it's a good approximation.


Well that's gonna vary a lot per section. It's insanely hard to tell w/o knowing the likelihood of someone having ONLY B+s and above. I'm assuming you're better at math than I am, and from what I can tell, the only thing I considered that you didn't was the grade distribution in each of my individual classes. In any event, for the purposes of this thread, even as you've defined it, a curve median below 3.33 would still put OP above median.

Also, the numbers you used weren't altogether correct. In my section for example, the three B- to F distributions were 7, 8 and 13%. One of those classes, btw, didn't have any B-s: only C+ and below. So again, it's gonna vary. So like, what I did for my section, is probably the similar to what you did using the website percentages, only using the specific percentages and credit hours from each of my classes. And I got 3.17. And of course that's not gonna be perfect. And also not gonna take into account that there are three Con Law sections in our section and I have no way of knowing how the other two sections were distributed. And it's also TOTALLY possible that I didn't do it correctly. But yeah.

EDIT: Btw, full disclosure, I have an invested interest (like everyone, I'm sure) in believing that the median is as low as possible lol So of course I'm gonna be more likely to ignore/question mentions elsewhere that median is 3.33ish and embrace mentions that median is closer to 3.17 :p


There is very little chance the median is 3.17. 60% of each class has to get a B+ or better. Leaving only 40% to get worse. In order to get the average down to 3.17 the profs would have to give a ton of D's or F's. But that would be straying too far from the normal distribution to still assume average = median.

And that professor didn't follow the curve if he gave 13% B- or worse.

3.17 is wishful thinking bro. Don't get cockey thinking you are way above median if you aren't.

GULC implemented this new curve to intentionally inflate GPAs.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby swtlilsoni » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
clarion wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
swtlilsoni wrote:But the thing is, that is the median for each class. The "curve" is applied to each class individually. And then they take everyone's gpa and rank them. So..the median score according to the class curve doesn't necessarily equal the median according to the final distribution?


Not exactly. You can figure out the mean GPA, which is what I did. Normally that doesn't give you the median. But in a normal distribution the mean and median is the same. The GPA distribution probably isn't exactly a normal distribution, but it's a good approximation.


Well that's gonna vary a lot per section. It's insanely hard to tell w/o knowing the likelihood of someone having ONLY B+s and above. I'm assuming you're better at math than I am, and from what I can tell, the only thing I considered that you didn't was the grade distribution in each of my individual classes. In any event, for the purposes of this thread, even as you've defined it, a curve median below 3.33 would still put OP above median.

Also, the numbers you used weren't altogether correct. In my section for example, the three B- to F distributions were 7, 8 and 13%. One of those classes, btw, didn't have any B-s: only C+ and below. So again, it's gonna vary. So like, what I did for my section, is probably the similar to what you did using the website percentages, only using the specific percentages and credit hours from each of my classes. And I got 3.17. And of course that's not gonna be perfect. And also not gonna take into account that there are three Con Law sections in our section and I have no way of knowing how the other two sections were distributed. And it's also TOTALLY possible that I didn't do it correctly. But yeah.

EDIT: Btw, full disclosure, I have an invested interest (like everyone, I'm sure) in believing that the median is as low as possible lol So of course I'm gonna be more likely to ignore/question mentions elsewhere that median is 3.33ish and embrace mentions that median is closer to 3.17 :p


There is very little chance the median is 3.17. 60% of each class has to get a B+ or better. Leaving only 40% to get worse. In order to get the average down to 3.17 the profs would have to give a ton of D's or F's. But that would be straying too far from the normal distribution to still assume average = median.

And that professor didn't follow the curve if he gave 13% B- or worse.

3.17 is wishful thinking bro. Don't get cockey thinking you are way above median if you aren't.

GULC implemented this new curve to intentionally inflate GPAs.


But just because 60% got a B+ or better in each individual class, doesn't mean 60% got a 3.33 or better (because some people could get a B+ in one class and a B- in another)

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:44 pm

swtlilsoni wrote:
But just because 60% got a B+ or better in each individual class, doesn't mean 60% got a 3.33 or better (because some people could get a B+ in one class and a B- in another)


Do you think I know what a normal distribution is and don't know this?

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby clarion » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:10 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
clarion wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
swtlilsoni wrote:But the thing is, that is the median for each class. The "curve" is applied to each class individually. And then they take everyone's gpa and rank them. So..the median score according to the class curve doesn't necessarily equal the median according to the final distribution?


Not exactly. You can figure out the mean GPA, which is what I did. Normally that doesn't give you the median. But in a normal distribution the mean and median is the same. The GPA distribution probably isn't exactly a normal distribution, but it's a good approximation.


Well that's gonna vary a lot per section. It's insanely hard to tell w/o knowing the likelihood of someone having ONLY B+s and above. I'm assuming you're better at math than I am, and from what I can tell, the only thing I considered that you didn't was the grade distribution in each of my individual classes. In any event, for the purposes of this thread, even as you've defined it, a curve median below 3.33 would still put OP above median.

Also, the numbers you used weren't altogether correct. In my section for example, the three B- to F distributions were 7, 8 and 13%. One of those classes, btw, didn't have any B-s: only C+ and below. So again, it's gonna vary. So like, what I did for my section, is probably the similar to what you did using the website percentages, only using the specific percentages and credit hours from each of my classes. And I got 3.17. And of course that's not gonna be perfect. And also not gonna take into account that there are three Con Law sections in our section and I have no way of knowing how the other two sections were distributed. And it's also TOTALLY possible that I didn't do it correctly. But yeah.

EDIT: Btw, full disclosure, I have an invested interest (like everyone, I'm sure) in believing that the median is as low as possible lol So of course I'm gonna be more likely to ignore/question mentions elsewhere that median is 3.33ish and embrace mentions that median is closer to 3.17 :p


There is very little chance the median is 3.17. 60% of each class has to get a B+ or better. Leaving only 40% to get worse. In order to get the average down to 3.17 the profs would have to give a ton of D's or F's. But that would be straying too far from the normal distribution to still assume average = median.

And that professor didn't follow the curve if he gave 13% B- or worse.

3.17 is wishful thinking bro. Don't get cockey thinking you are way above median if you aren't.

GULC implemented this new curve to intentionally inflate GPAs.


Ok relax. Cockiness has nothing to do with it. I simply said that I, like most everyone else, have an invested interest in the median being as low as possible. So although I agree that median is probably not 3.17, I'm also not convinced, based on my own evaluation, that it is instead very close to 3.33.

And it may be the case that my professor didn't follow the curve, but that doesn't change the fact that that is EXACTLY WHAT MY PROFESSOR GAVE. On my MyAccess page it says "Grade/Percentage of Students... B-/10.00, C+/3.00." Done.

In any case, 3.17 may be wishful, but I don't think it'd take a "TON" of Ds and Fs (or any for that matter) for the median to be there. **I think the broader point should be that OP should know that he/she, with straight B+s, is above median though not in the top third. If you fall somewhere between 3.17 and 3.33, you may or may not be above median: We honestly just have no way of knowing for sure. I might go ask OCS on Monday to see if they have anything to say on the matter. Though at this point I'd almost rather just move on with my life and focus on this current semester which (for FT students) "out-credits" last semester 2-to-1.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby Pokemon » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:14 am

The average grade at gtown would be a 3.32 (if professors are maximizing curves). Now, we easily say that the median and the average should be different, but I was just wondering, maybe they are not that different within the law school environment.

Average and median values differ heavily when there are extreme values. For example, law salaries. 51%biglaw/49%unemployed makes median 160K even if the average is slightly above 80k.

In law school however there are not really extreme values, and it is a zero-sum game.

That is, in a section of 100 people, 5 classes per semester, there will be given each semester at gtown:
60 A, 95 A-, 140B+, 180 B, and 25 B-. In such a limited supply of outcome, I cannot believe that the median will diverge too much from the average. If someone is collecting the A, it only means another student will collect the lower grades. Values are related to each other.

Think of it this way: if students were super consistent with their grades (A students taking only As), Georgetown would have a 3.33 median. The average would be 3.32. Now students are not consistent, but if they were randomly inconsistent, the median would start moving towards the average (this is what I got in a quick randomized excel test, assuming 8 curved classes, median at gtown would be 3.29)


Why am I writing all this? Though probably wrong, it is more interesting than my journal note.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby Shmoopy » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:52 am

Given this curve (A:12% A-:19 B+:28% B:31-36% B- to F: 5-10%), the distribution of grades is skewed to the left, so the median will be higher than the mean. Dunno if that's really the curve in all the classes because I don't go to gulc, but the median will be higher than the mean whenever more people get high grades than low grades. It seems like most curves involve more A's and A-'s than C's and below, so this is probably true in most cases.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby clarion » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:00 am

Hm. Alright, point taken point taken. I really wish someone would take my section's numbers and calculate what they suggest, because for those of you who don't know, during 1L year our curve at GULC is section-dependent. (You know, cause we have so many freakin students for no reason). So although there's a like "suggested" curve, it varies depending on who your professors are and what not.

In any event, I think although we can probably agree this whole conversation has been fairly inconsequential as far as producing hard evidence goes, I will concede that it's probably much closer to 3.33 than 3.17 regardless of your section: mostly cause I don't trust my math/stats skills lol gg.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby holmesboy » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:22 am

clarion wrote:Hm. Alright, point taken point taken. I really wish someone would take my section's numbers and calculate what they suggest, because for those of you who don't know, during 1L year our curve at GULC is section-dependent. (You know, cause we have so many freakin students for no reason). So although there's a like "suggested" curve, it varies depending on who your professors are and what not.

In any event, I think although we can probably agree this whole conversation has been fairly inconsequential as far as producing hard evidence goes, I will concede that it's probably much closer to 3.33 than 3.17 regardless of your section: mostly cause I don't trust my math/stats skills lol gg.



Based on the numbers you gave above on the grade distributions, I think we're in the same section.

I tried crunching the numbers and for one of our classes, the mean was 3.271, and the median was 3.263. For the second class, the mean was 3.273, and the median was 3.285. (I didn't bother to calculate con law because, as you said, that varies across sections.)

Also, by "crunching" the numbers, I mean that I took two minutes to play with the calculator on my phone. I also realize that median for a class is different than median for a section. But it seems that based on the distributions, median for two of the three classes we took was ~3.27, which suggests that those people in the 3.33 camp are correct. Obviously I, like you, wish this were not the case.


P.S. I am 90% sure I know who you are (and I didn't need my phone's help for that one).

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby Pokemon » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:59 pm

Shmoopy wrote:Given this curve (A:12% A-:19 B+:28% B:31-36% B- to F: 5-10%), the distribution of grades is skewed to the left, so the median will be higher than the mean. Dunno if that's really the curve in all the classes because I don't go to gulc, but the median will be higher than the mean whenever more people get high grades than low grades. It seems like most curves involve more A's and A-'s than C's and below, so this is probably true in most cases.


The distribution is actually skewed to the right. Average/mean is 3.32 in fully maximized classes.
B and B- constitute 41% of the grades, A and A- only 31%.
So the median is definitely below 3.33 (theoretically it could be 3.33 only if students were extremely consistent with their grades). The problem is that the median does not go much below the 3.30, certainly not as low as 3.17 if professors are maximizing grades.
It is somewhere between 3.25-3.30, I would guess. I imagine it does not matter much at the end, Georgetown seems to want to lump everyone around the same median grades, as opposed to NU that tries to spread everyone's grades.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby gtz » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:10 pm

Pokemon wrote:
Shmoopy wrote:Given this curve (A:12% A-:19 B+:28% B:31-36% B- to F: 5-10%), the distribution of grades is skewed to the left, so the median will be higher than the mean. Dunno if that's really the curve in all the classes because I don't go to gulc, but the median will be higher than the mean whenever more people get high grades than low grades. It seems like most curves involve more A's and A-'s than C's and below, so this is probably true in most cases.


The distribution is actually skewed to the right. Average/mean is 3.32 in fully maximized classes.
B and B- constitute 41% of the grades, A and A- only 31%.
So the median is definitely below 3.33 (theoretically it could be 3.33 only if students were extremely consistent with their grades). The problem is that the median does not go much below the 3.30, certainly not as low as 3.17 if professors are maximizing grades.
It is somewhere between 3.25-3.30, I would guess. I imagine it does not matter much at the end, Georgetown seems to want to lump everyone around the same median grades, as opposed to NU that tries to spread everyone's grades.


This is the correct answer as someone who actually went in and asked CSO I was told that it was between a 3.23-3.30. However, it depends on your section. In my section a B or lower was awarded 41%, 44%, and 47% of the time, thus making my section skew towards the lower end. However, my roommate in another section had a B or lower breakdown come to 41%, 34%, and 31% thus making his section towards the higher end. So much for a fair and even curve.

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holmesboy
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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby holmesboy » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:41 pm

gtz wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
Shmoopy wrote:Given this curve (A:12% A-:19 B+:28% B:31-36% B- to F: 5-10%), the distribution of grades is skewed to the left, so the median will be higher than the mean. Dunno if that's really the curve in all the classes because I don't go to gulc, but the median will be higher than the mean whenever more people get high grades than low grades. It seems like most curves involve more A's and A-'s than C's and below, so this is probably true in most cases.


The distribution is actually skewed to the right. Average/mean is 3.32 in fully maximized classes.
B and B- constitute 41% of the grades, A and A- only 31%.
So the median is definitely below 3.33 (theoretically it could be 3.33 only if students were extremely consistent with their grades). The problem is that the median does not go much below the 3.30, certainly not as low as 3.17 if professors are maximizing grades.
It is somewhere between 3.25-3.30, I would guess. I imagine it does not matter much at the end, Georgetown seems to want to lump everyone around the same median grades, as opposed to NU that tries to spread everyone's grades.


This is the correct answer as someone who actually went in and asked CSO I was told that it was between a 3.23-3.30. However, it depends on your section. In my section a B or lower was awarded 41%, 44%, and 47% of the time, thus making my section skew towards the lower end. However, my roommate in another section had a B or lower breakdown come to 41%, 34%, and 31% thus making his section towards the higher end. So much for a fair and even curve.



That blows. But aren't percentage cutoffs determined by section?

Edit: I can see how this would be a problem for grade cutoffs by school and getting a job.

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clarion
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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby clarion » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:23 pm

holmesboy wrote:
gtz wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
Shmoopy wrote:Given this curve (A:12% A-:19 B+:28% B:31-36% B- to F: 5-10%), the distribution of grades is skewed to the left, so the median will be higher than the mean. Dunno if that's really the curve in all the classes because I don't go to gulc, but the median will be higher than the mean whenever more people get high grades than low grades. It seems like most curves involve more A's and A-'s than C's and below, so this is probably true in most cases.


The distribution is actually skewed to the right. Average/mean is 3.32 in fully maximized classes.
B and B- constitute 41% of the grades, A and A- only 31%.
So the median is definitely below 3.33 (theoretically it could be 3.33 only if students were extremely consistent with their grades). The problem is that the median does not go much below the 3.30, certainly not as low as 3.17 if professors are maximizing grades.
It is somewhere between 3.25-3.30, I would guess. I imagine it does not matter much at the end, Georgetown seems to want to lump everyone around the same median grades, as opposed to NU that tries to spread everyone's grades.


This is the correct answer as someone who actually went in and asked CSO I was told that it was between a 3.23-3.30. However, it depends on your section. In my section a B or lower was awarded 41%, 44%, and 47% of the time, thus making my section skew towards the lower end. However, my roommate in another section had a B or lower breakdown come to 41%, 34%, and 31% thus making his section towards the higher end. So much for a fair and even curve.



That blows. But aren't percentage cutoffs determined by section?

Edit: I can see how this would be a problem for grade cutoffs by school and getting a job.


Lol it wouldn't surprise me that you know who I am if we are, in fact, in the same section.

In any event, yeah percentage cutoffs are based on section during 1L year: starting in 2L it becomes class-wide (maybe excluding PT? Not sure). So, for purposes of EIW and OCI, how the other sections do shouldn't matter. Except that someone who isn't perhaps as knowledgeable about GULC might see Person A in Section 1 with a 3.7 in the Top 15% and Person B in Section 2 with 3.6 in the Top 15% and be inclined to think Person A is better qualified. But that's mere speculation.

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3|ink
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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby 3|ink » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:27 pm

clarion wrote:(maybe excluding PT? Not sure).

I'll let you know when my final grade comes in. I assume they'll do rankings shortly after. My first year here (transfer) so I don't know how they handle it.

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Re: STRAIGHT B+s. HAVING A MELTDOWN

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:14 am

Desert Fox wrote:
swtlilsoni wrote:
But just because 60% got a B+ or better in each individual class, doesn't mean 60% got a 3.33 or better (because some people could get a B+ in one class and a B- in another)


Do you think I know what a normal distribution is and don't know this?

:lol:




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