So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
Raiden
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:11 pm

So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Raiden » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:41 pm

I thought did it all, read all the guides, followed the TLS exam focused studying, and CSWS second to LGL. I was pretty calm on the exam, thought I did solid issue spotting, and gave strong analysis as much as I thought was possible....so I thought, until my grades came back without any A's. womp womp womp...

I know I will get a better idea once I check out my exams and speak with the professors, but I wanted to see if there are any TLSers who went through the same thing their first year and where able to diagnosis the problem.

Thanks for the help team.

User avatar
Gamecubesupreme
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Gamecubesupreme » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:45 pm

Happened to me first semester.

Realized the problem was that I did not do any casebook or supplemental readings. All I read for the entire semester was Getting to Maybe and called it a day.

Turned it around in the second semester when I actually do the required casebook readings.

Not sure if this was what happened to you though.

User avatar
Lacepiece23
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Lacepiece23 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:22 am

did you really get into the head of the prof. For a few tests I had to break from the general TLS wisdom in favor of a more honed in approach on what I thought my prof wanted. However, must TLS advice did serve me well. I'm sorry to hear that man.

User avatar
OneMoreLawHopeful
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:21 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:51 pm

I was in a similar situation, I came in above median (3.55 when median is 3.17), but still only had one A. I was able to go to all As second semester of 1L (and beyond) by making just one change.

I started ranking my arguments in terms of strength.

So, whereas I used to just state each of the arguments in turn, now I begin by saying "The strongest argument is..." then "the next best argument is..." all the way down to "A weak but plausible argument could be..."

I didn't change my analysis in anyway, nor did I change how I actually articulated the arguments beyond including the ranking. By ranking the arguments I accomplished two goals: first, the exam appeared far more organized. Even though my first semester exams actually were organized, professors told me that it read like "jumping from topic to topic" because it wasn't clear why I went for the arguments in the order that a did.

Second, by ranking the arguments, I made it clear that I understood when an argument was a "good fit" and when it was a "bad fit."

I think that this is something that isn't always made clear in issue spotter practice where the focus is on "Did you get all the issues?" rather than "this is the most important issue."

Maybe this was just me, but in case it's you too, I hope this helps.

User avatar
Mick Haller
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:03 pm

Some of it is just how well you write and analyze. Studying smart =/= doing the same as everyone else. I didn't make an outline for every class, but I always studied at least 3 or 4 outlines that others had prepared. For me, casebook and supplements like E&E were usually a time sink. I didn't even purchase the casebook for most classes during my 2nd and 3rd years.

I still believe that taking excellent notes in class, and studying those notes meticulously during exam prep, is the single most important study method. You do get tested on minute details of cases on occasion, but 90% of the material tested is something discussed in class.

Final class rank ~ 15% at Hastings. Probably could have done a little better if I had been less lazy. I usually started exam prep 2 weeks before the first final. It's probably better to start around the middle of the semester.

Randomnumbers
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:26 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Randomnumbers » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:51 am

Mick Haller wrote:Some of it is just how well you write and analyze. Studying smart =/= doing the same as everyone else. I didn't make an outline for every class, but I always studied at least 3 or 4 outlines that others had prepared. For me, casebook and supplements like E&E were usually a time sink. I didn't even purchase the casebook for most classes during my 2nd and 3rd years.

I still believe that taking excellent notes in class, and studying those notes meticulously during exam prep, is the single most important study method. You do get tested on minute details of cases on occasion, but 90% of the material tested is something discussed in class.

Final class rank ~ 15% at Hastings. Probably could have done a little better if I had been less lazy. I usually started exam prep 2 weeks before the first final. It's probably better to start around the middle of the semester.


And, like always, everyone's 'best' approach to studying is going to be different. I'm only a 1L, but I didn't take any notes last semester (except a few scribblings in the margins of the casebook), I made outlines from scratch for every class, and I depended heavily on the casebook and one chosen supplement for each class. I see people constantly taking notes in class around me, and I wonder what the hell they are doing - it's rare for the professor to say anything that isn't contained in the casebook or a supplement. The point of going to class . FOR ME, is to check your knowledge of what you read in the casebook, and figure out the way the professor thinks about those things, so you can give them back to the professor at the exam in that way. It's important to figure out the style of studying/learning the material that works best for you.

User avatar
Mick Haller
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Mick Haller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:15 pm

^^ agree with you, but OP clearly needs to try a new approach; his/her method from last semester left them working hard with little to show for it.

odoylerulez
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:39 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby odoylerulez » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:32 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:I was in a similar situation, I came in above median (3.55 when median is 3.17), but still only had one A. I was able to go to all As second semester of 1L (and beyond) by making just one change.

I started ranking my arguments in terms of strength.

So, whereas I used to just state each of the arguments in turn, now I begin by saying "The strongest argument is..." then "the next best argument is..." all the way down to "A weak but plausible argument could be..."

I didn't change my analysis in anyway, nor did I change how I actually articulated the arguments beyond including the ranking. By ranking the arguments I accomplished two goals: first, the exam appeared far more organized. Even though my first semester exams actually were organized, professors told me that it read like "jumping from topic to topic" because it wasn't clear why I went for the arguments in the order that a did.

Second, by ranking the arguments, I made it clear that I understood when an argument was a "good fit" and when it was a "bad fit."

I think that this is something that isn't always made clear in issue spotter practice where the focus is on "Did you get all the issues?" rather than "this is the most important issue."

Maybe this was just me, but in case it's you too, I hope this helps.


I think this is really good advice.

Reading back through my exams from this semester, I actually did this a little bit without really thinking about it. I think I'm going to really expand on this ranking idea this semester and we'll see how it plays out.

Pokemon
Posts: 1861
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Pokemon » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:07 pm

What happened to you happens to every student who is at median. They gave it all, read guides, supplements, saw what worked better for them, and ended up at median.
But be optimistic, there were people who gave it all, read guides + supplements, and ended up below median.

I am not trying to be an ass, but do not assume that because you have read TLS and you have tried a bunch of things, that you are better in taking exams than your classmates. Law school is hard because of your classmates, and you simply do not know their quality before grades come out.

Try your best for next semester, adopt the ranking method if you find it comfortable and you think it will help you, but do not assume that anything you do will give you an edge over other students. Beating the curve is a lot like beating the market.

User avatar
manofjustice
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby manofjustice » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:09 pm

Gamecubesupreme wrote:Happened to me first semester.

Realized the problem was that I did not do any casebook or supplemental readings. All I read for the entire semester was Getting to Maybe and called it a day.

Turned it around in the second semester when I actually do the required casebook readings.

Not sure if this was what happened to you though.


Are you serious?

SportsFan
Posts: 722
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby SportsFan » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:43 pm

manofjustice wrote:
Gamecubesupreme wrote:Happened to me first semester.

Realized the problem was that I did not do any casebook or supplemental readings. All I read for the entire semester was Getting to Maybe and called it a day.

Turned it around in the second semester when I actually do the required casebook readings.

Not sure if this was what happened to you though.


Are you serious?

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that was a little weird...

User avatar
Gamecubesupreme
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Gamecubesupreme » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:58 pm

manofjustice wrote:
Gamecubesupreme wrote:Happened to me first semester.

Realized the problem was that I did not do any casebook or supplemental readings. All I read for the entire semester was Getting to Maybe and called it a day.

Turned it around in the second semester when I actually do the required casebook readings.

Not sure if this was what happened to you though.


Are you serious?


I wish I was joking.

Like I said, I got median pwned in the 1st semester, so I'm not saying I was some kind of a legal genius.

User avatar
Blessedassurance
Posts: 2081
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:42 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:08 pm

Raiden wrote:I thought did it all, read all the guides, followed the TLS exam focused studying, and CSWS second to LGL. I was pretty calm on the exam, thought I did solid issue spotting, and gave strong analysis as much as I thought was possible....so I thought, until my grades came back without any A's. womp womp womp...

I know I will get a better idea once I check out my exams and speak with the professors, but I wanted to see if there are any TLSers who went through the same thing their first year and where able to diagnosis the problem.

Thanks for the help team.


How was your typing speed?

User avatar
cinephile
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby cinephile » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:23 pm

manofjustice wrote:
Gamecubesupreme wrote:Happened to me first semester.

Realized the problem was that I did not do any casebook or supplemental readings. All I read for the entire semester was Getting to Maybe and called it a day.

Turned it around in the second semester when I actually do the required casebook readings.

Not sure if this was what happened to you though.


Are you serious?


That may be a little extreme, but I don't think it's uncommon to do zero reading from the casebook and only study a good outline a few days before the exam.

User avatar
dingbat
Posts: 4976
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby dingbat » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:07 pm

cinephile wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
Gamecubesupreme wrote:Happened to me first semester.

Realized the problem was that I did not do any casebook or supplemental readings. All I read for the entire semester was Getting to Maybe and called it a day.

Turned it around in the second semester when I actually do the required casebook readings.

Not sure if this was what happened to you though.


Are you serious?


That may be a little extreme, but I don't think it's uncommon to do zero reading from the casebook and only study a good outline a few days before the exam.

Ah, the Dingbat guide to a guaranteed D. Works every time

User avatar
hoos89
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby hoos89 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:23 pm

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tom Joad
Posts: 4542
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby Tom Joad » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:47 pm

This thread should be stickied in the "Choosing a Law School" subforum.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby IAFG » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:48 pm

Tom Joad wrote:This thread should be stickied in the "Choosing a Law School" subforum.

hi i am a 0L and what will my job prospects be as long as i land in the top 10% of the class? i am willing to do whatever it takes.

SportsFan
Posts: 722
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby SportsFan » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:06 pm

Tom Joad wrote:This thread should be stickied in the "Choosing a Law School" subforum.

Took me a minute to get what you meant, but yeah.

odoylerulez
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:39 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby odoylerulez » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:08 pm

dingbat wrote:
cinephile wrote:
manofjustice wrote:
Gamecubesupreme wrote:Happened to me first semester.

Realized the problem was that I did not do any casebook or supplemental readings. All I read for the entire semester was Getting to Maybe and called it a day.

Turned it around in the second semester when I actually do the required casebook readings.

Not sure if this was what happened to you though.


Are you serious?


That may be a little extreme, but I don't think it's uncommon to do zero reading from the casebook and only study a good outline a few days before the exam.

Ah, the Dingbat guide to a guaranteed D. Works every time


You would be amazed at the fact that 20-30% of our class did exactly this, or pretty close.

Getting a B+ or higher here is really hard, but so is getting a C or below. I think something like 50% of the 1L class gets between a 2.3 and 3.0 here first semester. Most of the rest usually hit in that 2.0-2.3 range or just a bit over 3.0. On our midterms, 70ish student section, only 4 people got an A.

lawhaus
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:08 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby lawhaus » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:54 am

the curve hit me when i realize after talking to my professor about the final that i was 1 point away from that next grade bump, but so were 4 others on the grade list

User avatar
manofjustice
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby manofjustice » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:55 am

Wow. So 20 to 30% don't read the casebook AT ALL? What kinda school are you at, IYDM?

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby bk1 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:58 am

manofjustice wrote:Wow. So 20 to 30% don't read the casebook AT ALL? What kinda school are you at, IYDM?

Considering you can get canned briefs of almost every casebook case online, it's not that surprising. It's probably not that important to read the casebook overall, but there is likely a correlation between people who don't read the casebook and people who do poorly since not wanting to read the casebook is generally indicative of laziness.

User avatar
manofjustice
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 10:01 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby manofjustice » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:04 am

bk1 wrote:
manofjustice wrote:Wow. So 20 to 30% don't read the casebook AT ALL? What kinda school are you at, IYDM?

Considering you can get canned briefs of almost every casebook case online, it's not that surprising. It's probably not that important to read the casebook overall, but there is likely a correlation between people who don't read the casebook and people who do poorly since not wanting to read the casebook is generally indicative of laziness.


I never really trusted the case briefs. I thought they could simplify things or even just get things wrong.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: So you thought you did it all, but you get median Pwned.

Postby IAFG » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:05 am

yeah you can't really trust what people say about how hard they work in either direction.




Return to “Forum for Law School Students”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: admiringatticus and 8 guests