Should I drop out?

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:51 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:most lawyers don't end up at big firms, if that is the only goal entering law school and depends on being in the top tenth of your class, then 90% of your class better be put on suicide watch.


I wasn't expecting that... but I wasn't expecting to be below median either.

My summer semester was 10 credits and so was this fall semester. I have 10 credits to go for the spring.


why the part time schedule if you did so good in undergrad?

Have you considered going as low as 6 credits while working at a legal office? It would take longer but raise the GPA and resume to match.
Many do just that.


the part time schedule was the best I could get into. I did not get into full time.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:51 pm

If you have a place to live and free food then I guess its up to you.

Have you considered going for an MBA or another type of Masters in the time being? Maybe the credits can transfer. Even if not, it still could help you decide if grad school in general is right for you.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:52 pm

Trex wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:most lawyers don't end up at big firms, if that is the only goal entering law school and depends on being in the top tenth of your class, then 90% of your class better be put on suicide watch.


I wasn't expecting that... but I wasn't expecting to be below median either.

My summer semester was 10 credits and so was this fall semester. I have 10 credits to go for the spring.


why the part time schedule if you did so good in undergrad?

Have you considered going as low as 6 credits while working at a legal office? It would take longer but raise the GPA and resume to match.
Many do just that.


the part time schedule was the best I could get into. I did not get into full time.

I know your GPA was good, so what was your LSAT?

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:53 pm

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:59 pm

LSTfan wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:Depends on what the alternative is. Trading stale food to starve is not a step up.


Pre-law school, the OP had a job that allowed saving up $30,000. Post-law school, the OP will have over $150,000 in non-dischargeable debt. The advice your are giving is remarkably bad.


your interpretation of my advise, reread what I actually said (reading comprehension)

I said to do the math, I didn't say what the math would be

A lot of it involves variables that we are not privy to, but the OP is.

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:02 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:
the part time schedule was the best I could get into. I did not get into full time.

I know your GPA was good, so what was your LSAT?


155

My savings were from working since I was 15. I was always a hard worker and a big saver. Most recently, my job working as a secretary part time in a law firm for slightly above minimum wage. I saved up money because I lived at home and UG was practically free.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:05 pm

If you have a legal secretary job, you may want to consider keeping that and going to a 6 credit course load for a few terms to raise the GPA while building the experience. You won't be doing a lawyers job, but you will get to watch them do it as well as work alongside paralegals which can prep you for legal research and writing.

It could also give you a shoe in for other lawyer work, either at that firm, or by having lawyer references.

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:09 pm

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:15 pm

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby moneybagsphd » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:22 pm

LSTfan wrote:To Trex:

Please take a hard look at both (i) the actual job prospects of a Cardozo grad that is at or below the median, and (ii) the payments required to service the kind of debt that you will be taking on if you decide to finish law school.

At the very least, take a leave of abscence (if your school will allow) and use that time to test the job market and to figure all of this out. DO NOT take on any more debt.

Seriously. You should probably drop out of 'dozo if you don't make top 10%, below median is an easy call imo. Which is not to trivialize the difficulty of the decision. Obviously dropping out now means that you'll have to confront uncertainty, but at least you won't be saddled w/ crippling debt.
Last edited by moneybagsphd on Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:27 am

I am thinking of giving it another whirl for this semester since I already paid and have not thought out a backup plan thoroughly enough. I will be prepared to leave, especially if I don't find employment for the summer. Is this a crazy plan?

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:15 am

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:47 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
LSTfan wrote:To Trex:

Please take a hard look at both (i) the actual job prospects of a Cardozo grad that is at or below the median, and (ii) the payments required to service the kind of debt that you will be taking on if you decide to finish law school.

At the very least, take a leave of abscence (if your school will allow) and use that time to test the job market and to figure all of this out. DO NOT take on any more debt.

Seriously. You should probably drop out of 'dozo if you don't making top 10%, below median is an easy call imo. Which is not to trivialize the difficulty of the decision. Obviously dropping out now means that you'll have to confront uncertainty, but at least you won't be saddled w/ crippling debt.


So 90% of law students should drop out by the end of 1L? Even if we were to go to as low as top half of the class, should half of the class quit by end of 1L? If so, why don't all law schools have at least a 50% first year attrition rate?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:28 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:So 90% of law students should drop out by the end of 1L? Even if we were to go to as low as top half of the class, should half of the class quit by end of 1L? If so, why don't all law schools have at least a 50% first year attrition rate?

Because 50% don't drop out?

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Shmoopy
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Shmoopy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:34 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:So 90% of law students should drop out by the end of 1L? Even if we were to go to as low as top half of the class, should half of the class quit by end of 1L? If so, why don't all law schools have at least a 50% first year attrition rate?


Maybe 50% should. This doesn't happen because a lot of people make poor choices.

Funny thought: if the whole bottom 50% dropped out, then people who previously 75th percentile would be the new median...

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Drake014
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Drake014 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:38 pm

Trex wrote:I am seriously close to dropping out of law school. Below is my story and I need some advice.

I started this past summer at school ranked at about 50 in a major metropolitan area. Thus far, I have completed 2 of the 3 trimesters of law school. My grades are all B's, with one B-, leaving my GPA at 2.96. I have done well in my legal writing class, receiving As on my memos and praises from my professor.

At this point, I have about 22K in loans. I like law school, but I don't love it. I have always been a relatively quiet person and am still quiet in law school. I like the law, still like researching, but am scared what will happen with my gpa at where it is. On the other hand, I am scared about what career avenues to pursue instead... Advice?


NY is a tough market. I would advise dropping out.

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:41 pm

And what do you do if you have no alternate plan? Never consider being anything but an attorney before, so I have no marketable skills. I still like the field to an extent- particularly doing research- but how will I ever get to show myself as attorney if no one will hire me?

I should have realized that my general history of poor test taking would reflect on law school exams. Why is everything so clear in retrospect? lol

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cinephile
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby cinephile » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:42 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:So 90% of law students should drop out by the end of 1L? Even if we were to go to as low as top half of the class, should half of the class quit by end of 1L? If so, why don't all law schools have at least a 50% first year attrition rate?


It depends on what school you go to, how you're paying for law school, and whether you have a job guaranteed for after graduation. But yes, many students should be dropping out not just by the end of 1L, but after their first semester. People don't because people like you give faulty advice.

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justonemoregame
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby justonemoregame » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:15 pm

lawdoc, stop sounding like such a UG advisor

If OP stays in school, the best possible financial result is a 3-1 DTI ratio. Is that even manageable? TCR is cut your losses and start getting experience somewhere. Don't waste that time by borrowing money and throwing it towards a fire. You may start out with a low income, but your debt is very manageable, esp. since you can live with your parents for a year or two. By the time you would have graduated LS, you'll have less debt and an income you can live on your own with.

Should half the class quit after 1L? That's a softball - yes.

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stillwater
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby stillwater » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:00 pm

Key Question: Does OP have a passion for the law debt?

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:02 pm

Thanks for the responses all. Much appreciated.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:39 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:17 pm

ajax adonis wrote:Drop out. You have a pretty good GPA and even if you're still trying to find yourself after you drop out, at least you're not incurring debt while doing so. You're an adult. Tell your parents that law school is not something that you just "stick out and it will get better." If that means you have may have to move home, tell them you'll work menial jobs to pull your weight until you find gainful employment. I don't want to go into broader life advice, but just be an adult and tell them this is your life.


My parents are supportive of what I do either way as long as I am not an indefinite bum. I just don't know what alternate career avenues to pursue.

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Drake014
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Drake014 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:09 pm

Trex wrote:And what do you do if you have no alternate plan? Never consider being anything but an attorney before, so I have no marketable skills. I still like the field to an extent- particularly doing research- but how will I ever get to show myself as attorney if no one will hire me?

I should have realized that my general history of poor test taking would reflect on law school exams. Why is everything so clear in retrospect? lol



The reason I suggested dropping out is that you're working in a very competitive market, doing below median at a lower ranked school, you mentioned that you're quiet--suggesting you haven't the best networking skills, and you haven't said anything that makes me think that being a lawyer is a lifelong dream that you're crazy about.

Wanting to be a lawyer because you've never considered doing something else and never done anything else are not good reasons. I didn't go to law school until working in the real world for over half a decade. Having a prior career helped me focus on what I wanted and why I wanted it.

Here's my ultimate question to you. Would it be worse to (A) build up all that debt and find out that you can't get a position in law you're happy with or (B) drop out and find out later that law is what you really wanted? Imagine yourself in both positions. What depresses you more? Go with the one that depresses you least.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:47 pm

OP, there are other careers out there, even if you don't know what your alternative is yet. You can take something up for the short-term as a transition kind of job until you figure out your alternative, but I think you need to cut your losses in the mean time and drop out so you don't end up in a jobless situation with a huge debt burden.




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