Should I drop out?

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Trex
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Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:24 pm

I am seriously close to dropping out of law school. Below is my story and I need some advice.

I started this past summer at school ranked at about 50 in a major metropolitan area. Thus far, I have completed 2 of the 3 trimesters of law school. My grades are all B's, with one B-, leaving my GPA at 2.96. I have done well in my legal writing class, receiving As on my memos and praises from my professor.

At this point, I have about 22K in loans. I like law school, but I don't love it. I have always been a relatively quiet person and am still quiet in law school. I like the law, still like researching, but am scared what will happen with my gpa at where it is. On the other hand, I am scared about what career avenues to pursue instead... Advice?

Gorki
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Gorki » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:41 pm

Trex wrote:I am seriously close to dropping out of law school. Below is my story and I need some advice.

I started this past summer at school ranked at about 50 in a major metropolitan area. Thus far, I have completed 2 of the 3 trimesters of law school. My grades are all B's, with one B-, leaving my GPA at 2.96. I have done well in my legal writing class, receiving As on my memos and praises from my professor.

At this point, I have about 22K in loans. I like law school, but I don't love it. I have always been a relatively quiet person and am still quiet in law school. I like the law, still like researching, but am scared what will happen with my gpa at where it is. On the other hand, I am scared about what career avenues to pursue instead... Advice?


By 2/3 trimesters do you mean 2/3 through 1L, or what? What is the median GPA given at your school? Why did you go to law school? Have you talked with people outside of the internet (family, friends, old coworkers, etc.) about it?

It is okay to be quiet in LS when it comes to class participation (AKA gunning), but if you think your shyness kept you from visiting professors when you were confused then that is a challenge you need to overcome (not just for success in LS, but for success in life in general).

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:08 pm

Gorki wrote:
Trex wrote:I am seriously close to dropping out of law school. Below is my story and I need some advice.

I started this past summer at school ranked at about 50 in a major metropolitan area. Thus far, I have completed 2 of the 3 trimesters of law school. My grades are all B's, with one B-, leaving my GPA at 2.96. I have done well in my legal writing class, receiving As on my memos and praises from my professor.

At this point, I have about 22K in loans. I like law school, but I don't love it. I have always been a relatively quiet person and am still quiet in law school. I like the law, still like researching, but am scared what will happen with my gpa at where it is. On the other hand, I am scared about what career avenues to pursue instead... Advice?


By 2/3 trimesters do you mean 2/3 through 1L, or what? What is the median GPA given at your school? Why did you go to law school? Have you talked with people outside of the internet (family, friends, old coworkers, etc.) about it?

It is okay to be quiet in LS when it comes to class participation (AKA gunning), but if you think your shyness kept you from visiting professors when you were confused then that is a challenge you need to overcome (not just for success in LS, but for success in life in general).


2/3 of 1L... the median gpa at my school is between 3.1 and 3.2.

I went to law school because I loved my law classes in college and I enjoyed my internships in law offices during college. I was one of those people with a crappy lsat score and super high ugpa... I liked writing and still do enjoy legal writing.

My family thinks I should keep at it because of bruised ego issues, but they will be supportive if I have a thoroughly thought out alternative. I don't and that is the main problem..

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2014
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby 2014 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:16 pm

Clearly a big firm is out, your odds were already bad and they are now pretty much nil. So the question is, how do you feel about being a lawyer making 45k* (hopefully) vs working at a bank or something making the same money?

If you think you would enjoy being a lawyer and that is really what you want to do, then you could stick it out and bust your ass to minimize debt (take on a cheaper lease, eat cheaper, get a part time job next year/3L, etc). If you are ambivalent between being a shitlaw lawyer and doing whatever else, you should drop out because of debt.

* I have no idea how hard/easy it will be for you to land shit law. It probably depends on your city, networking skills, and fortune of talking to people when they are looking to hire.

Gorki
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Gorki » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 pm

I feel for you. My UG was a WorthlessStateU that has no pull (even its home tertiary marketed is flooded since another StateU has a campus in that same area) so I really am banking on LS too. If you really like researching and the work of being a lawyer, I do not think blindly dropping out with no backup is necessarily a good route. That said, being below median in this market is very scary even at t14 schools. If you are still interested in the law I say go to your school's academic resources office and see if they can help you with this third trimester so you can up that GPA.

Conventional wisdom on TLS is usually "just drop out and you can make shitlaw money anywhere." I personally think that is a big lie. Unless your UG is really prestigious, you have a specific major with work experience, or you have connections, retail or temping for a corporation is your almost certain outcome. I know people who are IBRing their UG loans now and working in terribly shitty jobs... If you are really interested in being a lawyer and are not gonna wuss out on the footwork to find summer jobs, LS can still work out for you better than joining the legions of youngs doomed to life on IBR. . . If you do not kick it in gear with applying for work and upping grades though, it may honestly lead to you working same shitty job but with 3 years of LS debt.

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:36 pm

I have a 4.0 from a city school, degree in a fluff field. Lots of secretarial experience and that's about it. I'll reveal my market.. It's NYC. It's where I was raised, where my UG is, and where my law school is.

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:38 pm

Oh yeah, I am paying sticker. I paid 30K with my savings that I had from working before, no UG loans, so I have about 22K in loans now. If I continue, I will have to take out the full amount for the next 2 years. It scares me to death. I don't know what I was thinking when I chose this path =/

Gorki
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Gorki » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:11 pm

Just based on how you are saying stuff in this thread, it really feels like you want to drop out but just do not have the courage to do so... If that is the case, I would actually really consider doing it (especially since you spent a ton of savings this year and will have to finance rest with loans)... Just imagine you used all that money on some crazy nice car that got totaled or something, and let it go. Do not triple down on soul-crushing debt trying to justify the money you poured into it. Regardless though, definitely fly this by people that know you personally and not just Internauts like us.

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:03 pm

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:14 pm

How many credits does 2/3 of a year come to for you?
I ask since I doubt you are on a 15 credit per term course load if doing summers.


It is worth noting that 1L tends to be the hardest, some 2L stuff can be hard but it and especially 3L is largely electives. You get to pick what you want to take which helps if you pick what you know you can do good at, and Profs in general tend to be more laid back and easier graders at that point too.

I wouldn't drop out unless you were at risk of academic probation or inherited a rich uncles estate overseas or something like that.

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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:17 pm

Trex wrote:I have a 4.0 from a city school, degree in a fluff field. Lots of secretarial experience and that's about it. I'll reveal my market.. It's NYC. It's where I was raised, where my UG is, and where my law school is.


That is impressive. You clearly can do well, I suspect it has to do with desire.
Do you WANT to be a lawyer as bad as you wanted to do what you were doing in undergrad?
If so, buckle down a bit and make it through.
If not, then why waste your life doing it if you don't want to be there?

That is more of a soul searching deal than a GPA deal.

What job do you think you will get with the undergrad? Do you have one lined up? Would it make you happier doing that for 40 years at it's salary than being an attorney with student loans and an attorneys salary would?

If it is just the desire to quit without anything better lined up, you may want to think harder before making a choice.
It may suck more at the other option.

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:18 pm

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:23 pm

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:29 pm

most lawyers don't end up at big firms, if that is the only goal entering law school and depends on being in the top tenth of your class, then 90% of your class better be put on suicide watch.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:30 pm

LSTfan wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:What job do you think you will get with the undergrad? Do you have one lined up? Would it make you happier doing that for 40 years at it's salary than being an attorney with student loans and an attorneys salary would?


The problem is, a graduate from the bottom half of a school ranked at the bottom of the first tier isn't actually all that likely to become an attorney making an attorney's salary.


factoring in a salary if he graduated at a 3.0 then compared to the other options (whatever they may be) then

life as would be in way 1 vs as would be in way 2

only reasonable way to do it

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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby moneybagsphd » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:41 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:I have a 4.0 from a city school, degree in a fluff field. Lots of secretarial experience and that's about it. I'll reveal my market.. It's NYC. It's where I was raised, where my UG is, and where my law school is.


That is impressive. You clearly can do well, I suspect it has to do with desire.
Do you WANT to be a lawyer as bad as you wanted to do what you were doing in undergrad?
If so, buckle down a bit and make it through.
If not, then why waste your life doing it if you don't want to be there?

That is more of a soul searching deal than a GPA deal.

What job do you think you will get with the undergrad? Do you have one lined up? Would it make you happier doing that for 40 years at it's salary than being an attorney with student loans and an attorneys salary would?

If it is just the desire to quit without anything better lined up, you may want to think harder before making a choice.
It may suck more at the other option.

This is not helpful advice. OP should probably drop out instead of putting good money after bad. Unless he's really sure that he can turn things around.

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:42 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:I have a 4.0 from a city school, degree in a fluff field. Lots of secretarial experience and that's about it. I'll reveal my market.. It's NYC. It's where I was raised, where my UG is, and where my law school is.


That is impressive. You clearly can do well, I suspect it has to do with desire.
Do you WANT to be a lawyer as bad as you wanted to do what you were doing in undergrad?
If so, buckle down a bit and make it through.
If not, then why waste your life doing it if you don't want to be there?

That is more of a soul searching deal than a GPA deal.

What job do you think you will get with the undergrad? Do you have one lined up? Would it make you happier doing that for 40 years at it's salary than being an attorney with student loans and an attorneys salary would?

If it is just the desire to quit without anything better lined up, you may want to think harder before making a choice.
It may suck more at the other option.


I don't know if it's all that impressive. I did not work all that hard to achieve that GPA. I just did all that I was supposed to and it came naturally.

I don't know if my poor outcome here has to do with desire. I have (or had) a tremendous desire to make the money I am putting into school pay off. Despite having a good GPA, my LSAT was below the 25% mark for my school. I got in as a super reverse splitter (Yes I know TLS told me to retake, but I didn't because I am a crappy standard test taker. I thought it would be different for law school exams, but it's not)

I haven't looked for any jobs outside of the law. I have sent out a few resumes for law for this past summer. No responses thus far and not expecting any.

I am thinking of starting to apply to jobs in big companies for entry level positions. I will probably have to go to an adviser at my UG to see if I can leave law school off my resume and apply to jobs with my UG transcript. I am assuming it's a lie to do that... I am at a loss right now. I am so used to doing well in school, that this comes as a huge shock to me.

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:43 pm

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:46 pm

Trex wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:I have a 4.0 from a city school, degree in a fluff field. Lots of secretarial experience and that's about it. I'll reveal my market.. It's NYC. It's where I was raised, where my UG is, and where my law school is.


That is impressive. You clearly can do well, I suspect it has to do with desire.
Do you WANT to be a lawyer as bad as you wanted to do what you were doing in undergrad?
If so, buckle down a bit and make it through.
If not, then why waste your life doing it if you don't want to be there?

That is more of a soul searching deal than a GPA deal.

What job do you think you will get with the undergrad? Do you have one lined up? Would it make you happier doing that for 40 years at it's salary than being an attorney with student loans and an attorneys salary would?

If it is just the desire to quit without anything better lined up, you may want to think harder before making a choice.
It may suck more at the other option.


I don't know if it's all that impressive. I did not work all that hard to achieve that GPA. I just did all that I was supposed to and it came naturally.

I don't know if my poor outcome here has to do with desire. I have (or had) a tremendous desire to make the money I am putting into school pay off. Despite having a good GPA, my LSAT was below the 25% mark for my school. I got in as a super reverse splitter (Yes I know TLS told me to retake, but I didn't because I am a crappy standard test taker. I thought it would be different for law school exams, but it's not)

I haven't looked for any jobs outside of the law. I have sent out a few resumes for law for this past summer. No responses thus far and not expecting any.

I am thinking of starting to apply to jobs in big companies for entry level positions. I will probably have to go to an adviser at my UG to see if I can leave law school off my resume and apply to jobs with my UG transcript. I am assuming it's a lie to do that... I am at a loss right now. I am so used to doing well in school, that this comes as a huge shock to me.

where do you plan to live and how do you plan to eat while searching for work in an unkown field?
Is it worth moving back in with parents and/or ending up as a public charge for the time being?

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:47 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:most lawyers don't end up at big firms, if that is the only goal entering law school and depends on being in the top tenth of your class, then 90% of your class better be put on suicide watch.


I wasn't expecting that... but I wasn't expecting to be below median either.

My summer semester was 10 credits and so was this fall semester. I have 10 credits to go for the spring.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:48 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:I have a 4.0 from a city school, degree in a fluff field. Lots of secretarial experience and that's about it. I'll reveal my market.. It's NYC. It's where I was raised, where my UG is, and where my law school is.


That is impressive. You clearly can do well, I suspect it has to do with desire.
Do you WANT to be a lawyer as bad as you wanted to do what you were doing in undergrad?
If so, buckle down a bit and make it through.
If not, then why waste your life doing it if you don't want to be there?

That is more of a soul searching deal than a GPA deal.

What job do you think you will get with the undergrad? Do you have one lined up? Would it make you happier doing that for 40 years at it's salary than being an attorney with student loans and an attorneys salary would?

If it is just the desire to quit without anything better lined up, you may want to think harder before making a choice.
It may suck more at the other option.

This is not helpful advice. OP should probably drop out instead of putting good money after bad. Unless he's really sure that he can turn things around.

Depends on what the alternative is. Trading stale food to starve is not a step up.
-Do you really have a PhD too? If so, why attend law school?

LSTfan
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:49 pm

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Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:49 pm

Trex wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:most lawyers don't end up at big firms, if that is the only goal entering law school and depends on being in the top tenth of your class, then 90% of your class better be put on suicide watch.


I wasn't expecting that... but I wasn't expecting to be below median either.

My summer semester was 10 credits and so was this fall semester. I have 10 credits to go for the spring.


why the part time schedule if you did so good in undergrad?

Have you considered going as low as 6 credits while working at a legal office? It would take longer but raise the GPA and resume to match.
Many do just that.

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Trex
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Re: Should I drop out?

Postby Trex » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:50 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
Trex wrote:I have a 4.0 from a city school, degree in a fluff field. Lots of secretarial experience and that's about it. I'll reveal my market.. It's NYC. It's where I was raised, where my UG is, and where my law school is.


That is impressive. You clearly can do well, I suspect it has to do with desire.
Do you WANT to be a lawyer as bad as you wanted to do what you were doing in undergrad?
If so, buckle down a bit and make it through.
If not, then why waste your life doing it if you don't want to be there?

That is more of a soul searching deal than a GPA deal.

What job do you think you will get with the undergrad? Do you have one lined up? Would it make you happier doing that for 40 years at it's salary than being an attorney with student loans and an attorneys salary would?

If it is just the desire to quit without anything better lined up, you may want to think harder before making a choice.
It may suck more at the other option.


I don't know if it's all that impressive. I did not work all that hard to achieve that GPA. I just did all that I was supposed to and it came naturally.

I don't know if my poor outcome here has to do with desire. I have (or had) a tremendous desire to make the money I am putting into school pay off. Despite having a good GPA, my LSAT was below the 25% mark for my school. I got in as a super reverse splitter (Yes I know TLS told me to retake, but I didn't because I am a crappy standard test taker. I thought it would be different for law school exams, but it's not)

I haven't looked for any jobs outside of the law. I have sent out a few resumes for law for this past summer. No responses thus far and not expecting any.

I am thinking of starting to apply to jobs in big companies for entry level positions. I will probably have to go to an adviser at my UG to see if I can leave law school off my resume and apply to jobs with my UG transcript. I am assuming it's a lie to do that... I am at a loss right now. I am so used to doing well in school, that this comes as a huge shock to me.

where do you plan to live and how do you plan to eat while searching for work in an unkown field?
Is it worth moving back in with parents and/or ending up as a public charge for the time being?


I currently live with my parents and they are doing an amazing service to me in terms of not having a rent/food problem. I was intending on living with them until I graduate and then moving out. They won't kick me out while I search for a job, but I don't want to be an indefinite burden.

thelawdoctor
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Re: Should I drop out?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:50 pm

LSTfan wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:where do you plan to live and how do you plan to eat while searching for work in an unkown field?
Is it worth moving back in with parents and/or ending up as a public charge for the time being?


Is your suggestion that she is better off staying in school because that way she can just take out loans to fund her housing and food needs for the next two years?


I am asking her to take a full view of it and not just jump off a bridge hoping the water is soft




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