criminal law v. procedure v. justice

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sbl274
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criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby sbl274 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:22 am

Can someone explain the difference between these?

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:46 am

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Last edited by Myself on Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ludo!
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Re: criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby Ludo! » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:50 am

Crim law is a 1l course where you study criminal laws

Criminal Procedure is a 2l course (or might be split into a couple like CrimPro Adjudication and CrimPro Investigations) and you study the procedure of criminal justice (arrest, trial etc.)

Criminal justice is a useless undergrad major

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:19 am

Crim law = what they charge you with.

Crim pro = the rules they have to follow to charge you, try you, convict you, and sentence you.

CJ = what LT said. (Technically, the whole system including both of the above, as well as study of what actually happens - who gets charged and how and why).

yips
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Re: criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby yips » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:24 am

The above is correct.

Also correct is at GULC, criminal justice is a 1L course. It's essentially criminal procedure (not sure why it's called criminal justice). Criminal law is then a 2L course that covers various crimes, theories of punishment, etc.

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kalvano
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Re: criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby kalvano » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:32 am

yips wrote:
Also correct is at GULC, criminal justice is a 1L course. It's essentially criminal procedure (not sure why it's called criminal justice). Criminal law is then a 2L course that covers various crimes, theories of punishment, etc.



Which makes a lot more sense than Crim as a 1L course.

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dingbat
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Re: criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:34 am

kalvano wrote:
yips wrote:
Also correct is at GULC, criminal justice is a 1L course. It's essentially criminal procedure (not sure why it's called criminal justice). Criminal law is then a 2L course that covers various crimes, theories of punishment, etc.



Which makes a lot more sense than Crim as a 1L course.
I don't know if I agree here. Crim Pro is very technical/specific, whereas Crim makes more sense as a survey course and has broader applications

edit: please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't taken crim pro, nor will I ever

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kalvano
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Re: criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby kalvano » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:26 am

Crim Pro wasn't hard for me, and it's vastly more useful. Crim is stupid. No one cares about mens rea, and whether or not there was a murder or robbery is pretty easy to figure out. You can learn 95% of Crim just by reading a jury charge.

Crim Pro is more like Con Law, but not quite as murky. It's 100X more useful, as its the sort of thing you'll inevitably be asked about at parties when people find out you're a lawyer. I did not find it terribly difficult, but it could just work for me.

When I interned at the US Attorney's Office, Crim was next to useless, but Crim Pro came up all the time: did they have PC for the initial search? Reasonable suspicion for a stop and frisk? Was the initial traffic stop justified? What about the entry into the house, did they need a warrant or were there exigent circumstances?

In terms of practical value, Crim Pro beats Crim to hell.

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dingbat
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Re: criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby dingbat » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:54 am

kalvano wrote:Crim Pro wasn't hard for me, and it's vastly more useful. Crim is stupid. No one cares about mens rea, and whether or not there was a murder or robbery is pretty easy to figure out. You can learn 95% of Crim just by reading a jury charge.

Crim Pro is more like Con Law, but not quite as murky. It's 100X more useful, as its the sort of thing you'll inevitably be asked about at parties when people find out you're a lawyer. I did not find it terribly difficult, but it could just work for me.

When I interned at the US Attorney's Office, Crim was next to useless, but Crim Pro came up all the time: did they have PC for the initial search? Reasonable suspicion for a stop and frisk? Was the initial traffic stop justified? What about the entry into the house, did they need a warrant or were there exigent circumstances?

In terms of practical value, Crim Pro beats Crim to hell.

Considering the field of law I want to specialize in, that's of no use, whereas mens rea plays a decent sized role

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kalvano
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Re: criminal law v. procedure v. justice

Postby kalvano » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:58 am

dingbat wrote:
kalvano wrote:Crim Pro wasn't hard for me, and it's vastly more useful. Crim is stupid. No one cares about mens rea, and whether or not there was a murder or robbery is pretty easy to figure out. You can learn 95% of Crim just by reading a jury charge.

Crim Pro is more like Con Law, but not quite as murky. It's 100X more useful, as its the sort of thing you'll inevitably be asked about at parties when people find out you're a lawyer. I did not find it terribly difficult, but it could just work for me.

When I interned at the US Attorney's Office, Crim was next to useless, but Crim Pro came up all the time: did they have PC for the initial search? Reasonable suspicion for a stop and frisk? Was the initial traffic stop justified? What about the entry into the house, did they need a warrant or were there exigent circumstances?

In terms of practical value, Crim Pro beats Crim to hell.

Considering the field of law I want to specialize in, that's of no use, whereas mens rea plays a decent sized role


But you can figure out mens rea in about 2 minutes. No need for a whole class. At and at least with Crim Pro, you can get really irritated by TV cop and lawyer shows and know exactly what they are dong wrong.




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