Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

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eeksorry
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Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby eeksorry » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:16 pm

If so, how did it happen? Is it even possible to fail if you go to most classes and go so far as to study a little?

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glitter178
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby glitter178 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:32 pm

I think it depends largely on the school. If I understand correctly, some schools fail a certain number of people each year. Other schools make it almost impossible to fail. You should/ might be able to look at past grades for your school to get a better idea.

eeksorry
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby eeksorry » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:35 pm

let's say T30s with generous curves

Gorki
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby Gorki » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:37 pm

Yes. We had a student who never showed to class in 1L more than once every two weeks, failed to do any work in group projects, failed every pre-final assignment... Teacher talked them into withdrawing..


But this was someone who took not giving a shit to the next level.


Never heard of it otherwise... LS wants your money, and handing out anything far below median is essentially telling the student to drop out.

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DorothyV
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby DorothyV » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:38 pm

At my school, the bottom 5% of the 1L curve is a C-, but Profs have the discretion to give out a lower grade. My 1L year, a student in my section was vocal about having received an F on an exam. (There may have been additional students who didn't disclose such info). Said student attended class regularly, but spent that time watching movies or otherwise messing around on his laptop. I have no idea whether the student studied outside of class.

eeksorry
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby eeksorry » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:46 pm

I mean I wanna hear all stories of people failing, but in particular 3Ls.

If you make it that far... and you're still even going to class and sometimes paying attention... it would take a brain fart of epic proportions to get anything below a C... right?

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I.P. Daly
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby I.P. Daly » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:25 pm

eeksorry wrote:I mean I wanna hear all stories of people failing, but in particular 3Ls.

If you make it that far... and you're still even going to class and sometimes paying attention... it would take a brain fart of epic proportions to get anything below a C... right?


:shock: :shock:

I mean, that Duke student who wrote "I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell" claims to have spent almost his entire 3L spring semester on spring break [like literally in Mexico] and he still graduated on time...

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dietcoke0
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby dietcoke0 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:26 pm

If you put something intelligible down, and spot at least one major issue, you aren't going to fail. Nuff said.

You are money to them, and you don't cut up a credit card that you don't need to pay off.

That said, you may get a low C, which will hurt you, but you show up, you say something relevant to your class, you pass.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:30 pm

I think it also depends on the class and format of the exam.

The one class where I've verifiably heard of someone failing (as opposed to through the rumor mill) is federal income tax. It's a multiple choice final, which may seem like a good thing (it is, if you have studied), but the flipside is you can actually get almost every question wrong (or I guess if you guess randomly, 80% wrong). Not so with an essay exam where you can kind of bullshit your way to something that sounds correct.

Supposedly someone got an astronomical number of questions wrong (like 18 / 75 correct when the class average was above 50, and I highly doubt anyone else got below a 35 or so) and the professor just failed him, even though the lowest mandatory grade on the 2L curve is a B.

waxecstatic
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby waxecstatic » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:33 pm

And if someone did, do you expect them to say "Yeah man, I did. I failed an exam. I am that guy who you imagined was just a myth"?

eeksorry
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby eeksorry » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:43 pm

well that's why i included the "or know someone who has" part.

but i also don't see why he wouldn't. it's the internet. i'm not gonna know him.

eeksorry
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby eeksorry » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:44 pm

dietcoke0 wrote:If you put something intelligible down, and spot at least one major issue, you aren't going to fail. Nuff said.

You are money to them, and you don't cut up a credit card that you don't need to pay off.

That said, you may get a low C, which will hurt you, but you show up, you say something relevant to your class, you pass.


anyway this is what i had assumed. i feel like most law students consider a C to be a failing grade (i would have before this semester but now i would probably just shrug and move on), so a prof giving out a C probably feels like he's handing out an F. or something like that.

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fathergoose
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby fathergoose » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:48 pm

In 1L fall contracts we had someone fail. Our prof normalized his grades on a 0-100 scale and sent out the high, low, and median grades. The median was in the 50s or 60s or something but the low was along the lines of a 6 or 7. That same person subsequently failed a class the next semester I think and is barely hanging on to graduate.

eeksorry
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby eeksorry » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:49 pm

fathergoose wrote:In 1L fall contracts we had someone fail. Our prof normalized his grades on a 0-100 scale and sent out the high, low, and median grades. The median was in the 50s or 60s or something but the low was along the lines of a 6 or 7. That same person subsequently failed a class the next semester I think and is barely hanging on to graduate.


that doesn't seem like the best course of action for him

waxecstatic
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby waxecstatic » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:49 pm

A "C" is the lowest grade at my school that is referred to as "satisfactory." Anyone who gets more than 2 C-s flunks out and with a C- in a core class, you have to retake it.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:52 pm

eeksorry wrote:If so, how did it happen? Is it even possible to fail if you go to most classes and go so far as to study a little?



I think a lot of it has to do with the professor. IMO most profs at T20-level schools won't give below B- or C+ (or maybe C) unless someone just didn't write anything, but there a few hard-asses out there who seem to give a D every so often (and probably some Fs too) according to released grading curves. If you don't have any profs who have a history of doing that it will probably be impossible to fail IMO, apart from not showing up for the exam or not writing anything (or just writing f-you on the exam and leaving). But if a person has a hard-ass prof AND literally doesn't learn the subject material at all (truly never reads, hardly ever shows up for class, and literally doesn't prepare at all for the exam), then I think there is definitely some risk of failure. Even then, I think a low C or a D would be more likely as long as some answers were entered. The story is very different though for very low-tier schools from what I understand (although I would still imagine in most cases actually failing a class is relatively rare if some effort is put in). I imagine that even at top schools some people do fail by not writing anything (or maybe a couple lines) if they are having severe personal problems and stress and just completely panic or can't focus at all when they show up for the exam. I imagine that degree of panic or loss of competency due to stressors or mental health issues is rare though.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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typ3
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby typ3 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 pm

eeksorry wrote:
fathergoose wrote:In 1L fall contracts we had someone fail. Our prof normalized his grades on a 0-100 scale and sent out the high, low, and median grades. The median was in the 50s or 60s or something but the low was along the lines of a 6 or 7. That same person subsequently failed a class the next semester I think and is barely hanging on to graduate.


that doesn't seem like the best course of action for him


Why? Law school grades =/ correlate with lawyering or success. There are plenty of successful lawyers out there who failed the bar / law school classes and went on to be successful. One of the best plaintiff firms in the nation employs a Thomas Cooley grad. Law school is not the same as lawyering nor business savvy.

Completely anecdotal about myself, I hardly ever prepare for exams. My idea of studying for a law school exam / course is to do jack shit all semester and then start studying from an outline the day before the exam. I received a CAL-I award for one of my classes 1L year but also scored near the bottom of the curve on another. My grades are all over the board because of my study habits / approach. I'm pretty sure I've written an exam where I should've but I don't understand how any of these tests have to do with lawyering or the practice of law.

FWIW I am just starting to study / outline for my Conlaw II exam which is in less than 12 hours. I found an online flowchart and an old outline. That is more than enough for the course. It's not like there are an infinite number of tests that you apply in conlaw and it is not like you can't bull shit their application on an exam.
Last edited by typ3 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eeksorry
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby eeksorry » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:00 pm

well if he put no effort in and failed then i guess maybe but if he did... it's more of a question of overall competence.

also you have to get a first job somehow.

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typ3
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby typ3 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:02 pm

eeksorry wrote:well if he put no effort in and failed then i guess maybe but if he did... it's more of a question of overall competence.

also you have to get a first job somehow.


True, except I am from a low population rural state and plan on returning there. The local school is a TTTT and my current school is a T-30. This is probably different than 99% of TLS who seem to all want to go to cities etc. Most of the work in my state is "shitlaw." The "big firms" pay around 250k for senior partner doing ID. On the plaintiff end there are a few 3-5 lawyers statewide who consistently pull mid 6 to lower 7 figures trolling plaintiff work. (automobile, product liability, insurance bad faith)
Last edited by typ3 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby kalvano » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:03 pm

fathergoose wrote:In 1L fall contracts we had someone fail. Our prof normalized his grades on a 0-100 scale and sent out the high, low, and median grades. The median was in the 50s or 60s or something but the low was along the lines of a 6 or 7. That same person subsequently failed a class the next semester I think and is barely hanging on to graduate.



To be fair, you go to a shitty T2.

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dingbat
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:04 pm

Lawquacious wrote:
eeksorry wrote:If so, how did it happen? Is it even possible to fail if you go to most classes and go so far as to study a little?



I think a lot of it has to do with the professor. IMO most profs at T20-level schools won't give below B- or C+ (or maybe C) .

My school sets a mandatory 3% minimum C grades, which is 1 per section or 2 per supersection

eeksorry
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby eeksorry » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:05 pm

typ3 wrote:
eeksorry wrote:well if he put no effort in and failed then i guess maybe but if he did... it's more of a question of overall competence.

also you have to get a first job somehow.


True, except I am from a low population rural state and plan on returning there. The local school is a TTTT and my current school is a T-30. This is probably different than 99% of TLS who seem to all want to go to cities etc.


but you didn't fail two classes so i'm not talking about you

andythefir
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby andythefir » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:10 pm

100% dependent on the school-good school that doesn't care about bar passage will almost never punish someone enough to give an F. School that wants a high bar passage can and will flunk some people to prevent them from graduating and then being a graduate who failed the bar.

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dingbat
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:13 pm

andythefir wrote:100% dependent on the school-good school that doesn't care about bar passage will almost never punish someone enough to give an F. School that wants a high bar passage can and will flunk some people to prevent them from graduating and then being a graduate who failed the bar.

NYLS grading will be brutal

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Lawquacious
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Re: Has anyone ever failed an exam or know anyone who has?

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:21 pm

dingbat wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:
eeksorry wrote:If so, how did it happen? Is it even possible to fail if you go to most classes and go so far as to study a little?



I think a lot of it has to do with the professor. IMO most profs at T20-level schools won't give below B- or C+ (or maybe C) .

My school sets a mandatory 3% minimum C grades, which is 1 per section or 2 per supersection


Which is not inconsistent with the statement you quoted (to the extent you were implying it was--you may not have been)... What tier school do you go to out of curiousity (ie. I think you are around T10 but I'm not sure).




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